California to ban sales of petrol-only vehicles by 2035

Aunt Bea said:
I would rather see this approach than offer $7,500.00 tax credits to upper-income Americans while the average wage earner gets caught in the squeeze of the change from fossil fuel to renewable energy.
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Because..... wait for it.......
Ahead of the "Inflation Reduction Act" extending the tax credit of up to $7,500 for purchases of new electric and hybrid vehicles, Ford and General Motors announced price increases at similar rates. But, but, it had nothing to do with the Reduction act. :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 

squatting dog said:
Because..... wait for it.......
Ahead of the "Inflation Reduction Act" extending the tax credit of up to $7,500 for purchases of new electric and hybrid vehicles, Ford and General Motors announced price increases at similar rates. But, but, it had nothing to do with the Reduction act. :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
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It does sound a lot like corporate welfare. 🤔

Always follow the money.

Sadly, the trail rarely leads to the working stiffs or the single moms that keep America humming.
 
senior chef said:
One thing that has not been mentioned. Soon we will lose the ability to travel to the wild places and be forced to live in over crowded, crime-ridden, drug infested cities. Never again to commune with nature in places like the deep Redwood forests or the high mountains. Never again to be able to fly fish in far distant trout streams.
1984 is here... NOW !
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That’s what my mate says. He also says it’s intentional (control).
 

SeniorBen said:
Who's going to pay for all those charging stations?

That said, it's worth a try. I'm seeing more and more EVs on the road.
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I don't see the lack of charging stations as a big problem. It is right now because they don't exist. But one thing about capitalism, if there's money to be made, entrepreneurs come out of the woodwork, and these things will spring up so fast it will make the Block Buster Video phenomenon look like kindergarten. Waiting during a 20 minute for a charge every 300 miles will be an adjustment. Oh my! We may have to slow down the pace of our lives. But some charging stations will offer good food. Others my advertise pin ball machines, or theaters that specialize in short features; Cartoons or the Three Stooges, and other Creative gimmicks to get you to stop for a charge will rule the day.
 
Aunt Bea said:
I think that in order for the transition to work the government needs to step up and begin buying electric vehicles of all types to replace aging fleets.

The boost in sales might give manufacturers enough business to justify the mass production of electric cars, buses, fire trucks, ambulances, and construction equipment to help bring the cost down for the average consumer.

If Jeff Bezos can order 100,000 electric delivery trucks imagine the impact that every village, town, city, state, and federal government agency would have on the demand for new electric vehicles.

I would rather see this approach than offer $7,500.00 tax credits to upper-income Americans while the average wage earner gets caught in the squeeze of the change from fossil fuel to renewable energy.
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What is to happen to all the current vehicles, in the US alone? If this was to become rapid pace as it is starting to be, there “should” have been an exit plan 20-ish years ago.
We own a Prius and that might have been the way to start going and refine that premise years ago so that the current cars have a conversion to the battery instead of dropping gas cars like a hot potato.
 
JustDave said:
I don't see the lack of charging stations as a big problem. It is right now because they don't exist. But one thing about capitalism, if there's money to be made, entrepreneurs come out of the woodwork, and these things will spring up so fast it will make the Block Buster Video phenomenon look like kindergarten. Waiting during a 20 minute for a charge every 300 miles will be an adjustment. Oh my! We may have to slow down the pace of our lives. But some charging stations will offer good food. Others my advertise pin ball machines, or theaters that specialize in short features; Cartoons or the Three Stooges, and other Creative gimmicks to get you to stop for a charge will rule the day.
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Why have we not seen roll out of these charging stations out at gas stations? Just in an addition to fuel. Why do we have to tear down what is all ready in place?
 
Wontactmyage said:
Why have we not seen roll out of these charging stations out at gas stations? Just in an addition to fuel. Why do we have to tear down what is all ready in place?
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There are not enough electric cars to make it worthwhile for the business owners. We have not torn down anything yet. We are still a petroleum based society (not that we need to remain that way), and I think "tearing down" exaggerates the reality a bit. I think there is always going to be a need for gas powered cars and the gas to run them, and I'm fine with that too. Where we end up is just less gas than we now use. I don't look at this as all either/or, and realistically, I don't see it in the near future. Sometime maybe, but not in our future as the outgoing generation.
 
JustDave said:
There are not enough electric cars to make it worthwhile for the business owners. We have not torn down anything yet. We are still a petroleum based society (not that we need to remain that way), and I think "tearing down" exaggerates the reality a bit. I think there is always going to be a need for gas powered cars and the gas to run them, and I'm fine with that too. Where we end up is just less gas than we now use. I don't look at this as all either/or, and realistically, I don't see it in the near future. Sometime maybe, but not in our future as the outgoing generation.
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I happen to see charging stations a restaurant in town. In our small city. Not that I don’t thinks it’s a good idea as you are doing something while waiting.
 
Alligatorob said:
What do y'all think? Is it a good idea? Will it work? https://www.bbc.com/news/business-62683260

Much as I'd like to see an end to the internal combustion engine I don't see that we have a replacement... Not a great one anyway.
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Why do you want to see an end of internal combustion engines ?

We could go back to the horse I suppose ? They only deposited tons, tons of horseshit & 100's of gallonss of horsepiss on the roads each day.....and of course if the horseshit is not shoveled promply [while still warm & soft] when it dries , it makes for a nice aroma dust cloud that we all inhale, that is so much better than the exhaust emission from a modern car.

Careful what ya wish for .
 
I wonder if instead of waiting for batteries to charge, if we could devise a system where batteries are swapped out in a few minutes. Cars would have to be designed for an easy swap, but then charging stations could be charging stacks of batteries while drivers were busy driving to their hearts content. Yes, I see potential problems with such a system, but it's human nature to see problems and magnify them, before working to solve them. And since I won't be the genius that solves the problem, I'll just offer it as something to consider.
 
JustDave said:
I wonder if instead of waiting for batteries to charge, if we could devise a system where batteries are swapped out in a few minutes. Cars would have to be designed for an easy swap, but then charging stations could be charging stacks of batteries while drivers were busy driving to their hearts content. Yes, I see potential problems with such a system, but it's human nature to see problems and magnify them, before working to solve them. And since I won't be the genius that solves the problem, I'll just offer it as something to consider.
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About 6:50 you can see the actual change process.

 
In terms of the conversion to electric vehicles, what many people do not yet fully understand or appreciate is the high manufacturing costs of internal combustion engine driven vehicles. These vehicles require both an engine and a transmission both of which components must be assembled and inspected by hand, i.e., human hands. When compared to electric vehicles, the labor costs of making cars having internal combustion engines is simply prohibitive. The car companies themselves will move away from, and already have to a great extent, internal combustion engines to electric power. The 'conversation' is no longer being driven by politics, saving the environment or whatever. It is pure and simple economics. Internal combustion engines are 'history.' The Acura my wife and I drive currently is still gasoline powered. But it will soon be 'buried' along with the two of us, never to be seen or heard from again.
 
i can't live where i am without some form of transport that i can afford that won't be easily stolen. and with the wild weather anymore what do they expect us to do? freeze to death? have heat stroke in the street?
 
sch404 said:
In terms of the conversion to electric vehicles, what many people do not yet fully understand or appreciate is the high manufacturing costs of internal combustion engine driven vehicles. These vehicles require both an engine and a transmission both of which components must be assembled and inspected by hand, i.e., human hands. When compared to electric vehicles, the labor costs of making cars having internal combustion engines is simply prohibitive. The car companies themselves will move away from, and already have to a great extent, internal combustion engines to electric power. The 'conversation' is no longer being driven by politics, saving the environment or whatever. It is pure and simple economics. Internal combustion engines are 'history.' The Acura my wife and I drive currently is still gasoline powered. But it will soon be 'buried' along with the two of us, never to be seen or heard from again.
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I hope you are right. Not being driven by politics would be the best way for it to happen, or not.
 
MarciKS said:
and with the wild weather anymore what do they expect us to do? freeze to death? have heat stroke in the street?
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Here's something funny/interesting, apparently the EV version of the F150 pickup can be used to provide electricity to a person's home when power is out, so that might be a lifesaver for some people:

"Ford will also sell buyers a number of home chargers, including an 80-amp charging station (standard with the long-range battery) that — with some additional equipment — can be used with the F-150 Lightning to provide power to the home should traditional power sources fail."​
 
HoneyNut said:
Here's something funny/interesting, apparently the EV version of the F150 pickup can be used to provide electricity to a person's home when power is out, so that might be a lifesaver for some people:

"Ford will also sell buyers a number of home chargers, including an 80-amp charging station (standard with the long-range battery) that — with some additional equipment — can be used with the F-150 Lightning to provide power to the home should traditional power sources fail."​
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ty for that but i was referring to the idea that we have to walk if we can't afford one of these pricey vehicles. :)
 
This not enough to do much of anything to stop/slow global warning. It will take the whole world to cooperate with DOING something instead of putting it off. We are all going to have to make sacrifices for this to happen. If we follow the current policies we will be in trouble soon as this graph indicates.

global.jpg

"The difference in temperature rise between the scenarios has stark consequences for global ecosystems and human well-being. The higher the temperature rise, the greater the risks of severe weather events such as extreme heat, drought, river and coastal flooding and crop failures. Even during the last decade, with an average temperature rise of 1.1 °C above pre-industrial levels, extreme heat events occurred almost three-times more frequently than in pre-industrial times. In the STEPS, around 2050, there would be a 100% increase in the frequency of extreme heat events compared to today and these would be around 120% more intense; there would also be a 40% increase in ecological droughts that would be around 100% more intense. In the NZE, the increase in frequency of extreme heat events would be lower at around 45% and ecological droughts would be less than 20% more frequent.

By 2100, as the temperature trajectories of the scenarios diverge, differences in the frequency and intensity of extreme weather events would become even more stark. There is around a 10% chance that the rise in temperature in the STEPS would exceed 3.5 °C in 2100. This would lead to an 80-130% increase in the frequency of ecological droughts and a two-to-threefold increase in their intensity. Extreme rainfall would happen up to twice as often as today and be three-to-four-times more intense. The risk of ice sheet collapse and disruptions to ocean circulation currents would also be substantially higher.5 This in turn could precipitate irreversible changes in the permafrost, boreal forests and the Amazon rain forest, potentially accelerating warming."

https://www.iea.org/reports/world-energy-outlook-2021/scenario-trajectories-and-temperature-outcomes
 
There's a lot to unpack with this thread. Easy for me to drift off subject as there are many impactors here. I'll try to keep a tight shot group in relation to CA's decision.

California set the precedent. A number of states are following closely. The states of Washington and Oregon will soonest round out the west coast trifecta banning new sales of ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) by 2035.

In my humble opinion, the national governmental role here is in support of California and the states to follow. Governments best serve the states when they look to the big picture. Big picture in this case being the development and implementation of an efficient mass transportation system coupled with a robust electrical grid.

What I'm seeing happen here is more than a change in personal transportation modes. It is a societal paradigm shift that leaves the twentieth centry behind and looks to the twenty-first century. It's a big deal.

There is so much more. But this looks like a good place to chop the reply. Regards. Arnold
 
MarciKS said:
i was referring to the idea that we have to walk if we can't afford one of these pricey vehicles.
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Yes the price has kept me from seriously looking at hybrids in the past, but I was googling prices just now and apparently there is an expectation that the Honda Civic Hybrid 2024 model will cost less than 26k, and if it qualifies for a tax credit (I don't know if it does) that would take the cost down to the price of the regular combustion version.
I noticed while googling that Honda itself has a zero emission goal by 2040.
Worse case all the richer people will trade up to newer versions of EV vehicles and so then we'd get used car prices for the older ev's.
 
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