Cenegenics: Scam or Legitimate?

not sure where the causality is? Bill Gates built one the most beautiful homes, and never layed a brick, Da Vinci never took a painting lesson etc. I could go on also.
 

US and UK health systems differ greatly I know.

Over here, HRT for women has dropped in use greatly, and is often not used as first line treatment. If it is used, it is recommended for the shortest time possible.
it would never be used as a first line treatment for depression, only to alleviate symptoms caused by estrogen lack.

Testosterone is not used for this kind of treatment at all...only in specific circumstances.

Quetiapine and Apriprazole are not recommended for long term use in the elderly, especially for depression; it is now contra-indicated for first line treatment.

Does this mean we are ahead of you or behind?

Is long term use of testosterone going to produce the same problems as HRT did?

Does anybody know?
 
HRT is not a first line treatment for anything, its a preventative, holistic approach, hopefully incorporating, diet,exercise etc.
most gynecologists in the USA have the position that there is no such thing as lack of estrogen--
usually in HRT therapy progesterone is used to "control" the estrogen, even if estrogen is lacking, p4 is added back to help control the conversion back to DHEA will cause an immune response, (pimples)
I suspect the UK is behind simply because of the shear numbers of people on HRT in the USA and thanks to the lab rat body builders who have been pushing HGH, and high test for the last 15 years, there will all kinds of information coming out. unofficial of course.
could you be more specific on the test vs HRT problem?
are you referring to the incorrect studies using Medroxyprogesterone, and conjugated estrogens, and methyltestosterone which studies and which conclusions are you referring?
 

rt3 said:
... Psychiatrist, clinical psychologist aren't really up to speed on t3, and there is a body of evidence indicating t3 works just as well.
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And as always there are equally convincing bodies of evidence that it does not.

t3 has none of the side effects associated with the drugs you mention, and the specific side effects of t3 are mostly beneficial.
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HOW many long-term studies have been performed? That's what scares me.

t3 has a 1/2 like of 4-6 hours so I don't understand why you are cycling of for 5-7 days.
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From what I've researched t3 has a half-life of 1 to 2-1/2 days. Are you sure about that 4-6 hours?

I've talked to body builders who when using HCG and injecting large doses of test, will cycle off t3, but not "normal" people.
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I'm surprised and a bit taken-aback that you place so much faith in bodybuilders. If you told your typical hard-core barbell boy that injecting rat feces would give them a great pump they'd be fighting over the syringes ...

Love the cenegenics add, this site must be using some type of AI search tool to get this up.
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Probably the Google Adword engine doing its magic ... ;)
 
regrettably the only thing for sure are, death, taxes, and rear end collisions

t3 use or Cytomel has been around since Synthroid which threw more add money into the selling to America the use of t4

if someone came out with a true time release t3 it would be the biggest drug on the market, no money in it, no way to patent, yep real short 1/2 life, and the picture gets worse if you using t4.

no faith bodybuilders, I take what they say with a grain of salt, gauging it with what can be fact or fiction based on a firm foundation, in pharmakinectics, biopharmaceuticals, pharmacology,physiology, and kinematics. I agree on the syringe part.
 
HRT is only used here for the treatment of menopausal symptoms adversely affecting the quality of life, at the lowest effective dose, for the shortest possible time.

This is because of the increase of risk in breast, endometrial and cervical cancer.
also thromboembolism and risk of stroke.

We try to prevent osteoporosis by other methods.

Long-term use is not encouraged because of these factors, how do you now testosterone will not prove to have similar unintended consequences in the long term

Maybe one reason could be that we do not pay for our treatments, so 'anti-aging' is not so high on our list of priorities; prevention of cancers and other diseases, such as dementia, is more cost effective to the NHS.
 
just a note, many products that are correctly food products, or supplements, but advertised as having drug properties also incorrectly state they are SR. This SR designation is slow release, not sustained release. There is a distinct difference, both in the science of pharmaceutical preparation and legal from the FDA. A slow release or delayed release product merely protects the active ingredient thru stomach transit. A time release product is formulated to effectively change the biological 1/2 life of the drug, or increase the frame by releasing an amount of drug necessary to keep the blood level equal to the first dose.
inj. forms, such as the doc on this site prefers in these posts, the test is incorporated in a heavy oil, (usually cottonseed) which allows the drug to leech from this repository and based on the physical value of its lipid/water partition coefficient enters the blood and gives those beautiful consistent lab values in log degradation MD loves to see (fits in the neat box)--- however since all hormones are on/off switches, there biochemical action resemble sinusoidal transcendental functions (LTI linear time invariant) waves (doesn't fit the box). Nature doesn't need pi
 
(not sure I'm doing this correctly)

the heart risk, cancer etc. information is way way out of date. these were caused by medroxyprogesterone, methytest, conjugated estrogens, not natural e2,p4
methytestosterone can and will effect the liver, anabolic substitues such as Durabinol etc. can and will, these are not natural hormone replacement therapy.
 
As a follow-up on my experience with Cenegenics-

I am in my fifth month and am extremely pleased with the results. My increased energy and endurance has been a great asset. One of the doctors in our group got injured, so I am now working an additional day and night. Another way of saying it is that I work 6 1/2 days a week, including two 14 hour days. I never could have done that before Cenegenics. And I have plenty of energy all day, every day.

I had my routine bloods drawn this week.

I had fallen off on my exercise routine, but when my Cenegenics physician heard this, he said that he would drop me as a patient if I would not exercise regularly. He is adament that I must be committed to following the whole program to get the best results. That motivated (and impressed) me. He has me following the Gorilla Workout app because it is too difficult and expensive to go to the gym.

My testosterone shots were changed to twice a week to correspond to my body's shorter half life. It is a bit of an inconvenience, but has made the effects smoother.

I go in for an exam, body fat testing, etc. next month. I can see that I have significantly lost fat and gained muscle.

So far, it has been the best thing I have ever done for myself.

Newly Old
 
We all know a balance diet, excercise, and keeping stress levels low are the ultimate age defying actions we can take...good genes help to!
 
Just logging in for my progress. I started Cenegenics at the end of September 2013. I joined because I had a lifetime of poor eating habits, weight gain, lack of exercise and a lifetime of failed diets. I had studied testosterone replacement and believed that it could be done safely and add to my well-being. I am not interested in living longer. I am interested in being active and functional until I die. Whether this program will bite me in the ass has year to be seen, but I think the risks of that are low. I have reviewed the literature and spoken with doctors who are for and against testosterone replacement. For me, the risk vs benefit ratio is way in my favor.

I find that I have no problem with the eating plan. I have not had a cake, cookie, donut, candy or other sweet since September and surprisingly have no interest. I remember the time that I loved such things, but I also remember when I loved to waterski and take tumbling falls at 50 MPH.

I weighted myself for the first time since September and I lost 25 pounds and gained muscle. My energy level remains excellent. People who have not seen me say I look great. One just said I looked rested and looked like I just returned from a vacation at a spa with a nice tan....

But that is my biggest problem. I am not tan. I am red, because my hematocrit is high. It is a known side effect of testosterone, and I was told in advance that I might have to periodically donate blood to keep it down. It is in a "safe" range. I take a baby aspirin every day, as part of the program and I have no plaque on my carotids by ultrasound. That was part of the initial screening. My doctor and blood specialists have said I am fine at this level, but I do not like having the issue.

Am I staying on the program? Absolutely. Overall it has been great, and I feel great. But let's see if my testosterone dose will have to be lowered or stopped. As I said from the beginning, nobody should be on testosterone unless they are closely monitored by a physician with expertise in the area.

When I started Cenegenics and started to post, I wanted people to see what the program was really like for someone. I had seen no such posts, just extreme opinions and misinformation. I will continue to report the good and the bad. So far, I am very happy I am on the program and very happy with the results. The blood side effect is a real annoyance, but that is all.

You are welcome to debate your opinions on Cenegenics with each other, but I am not going to get into any arguments about the significance or relevance of the hematocrit issue. Nor will I reply to any threads debating the merits, risks, folly of being on the Cenegenics program. I trust my experts, and am comfortable with my decisions. My goal is to present HONEST and ACCURATE information, nothing more. I neither promote, nor defend what I am doing to my own body.

I don't mean this to curb debate. It is my personal choice not to participate in the debate. In medicine, we are given case presentations in conferences. The facts about the patient are presented and there is discussion and a variety of conclusions. The patient being presented is never their to comment on what they did or why. I am your case presentation.

Anyone care to discuss this case with the other forum members?

Newly old.
 
Good to hear its going well, I'm not suprized. Cenegenics has good results, however way to pricey, as the same thing can be had for less.

While skin coloration is a reported side effect of Test. it is more from the increase thickness of the skin, and increased circulation than a direct cause/effect type thing. But this is good. You can then be called a "Red Neck" with authority. Most of the people, men and women, who use test. supplements have no color changes, but some report increase in pimples around the hair line. This is common with test. and DHEA of which I will not give the biochemical pathways--- so you will keep reading. Your results are seen more with the injectables.

It would be fruitless to discuss your case, as you outlined, without knowing all the drugs you were on.


Hormones replacement therapy, unlike most drugs, are beneficial because of their side effect profiles, rather than their direct pharmacological profile.
 
rt3 said:
Good to hear its going well, I'm not suprized. Cenegenics has good results, however way to pricey, as the same thing can be had for less.

While skin coloration is a reported side effect of Test. it is more from the increase thickness of the skin, and increased circulation than a direct cause/effect type thing. But this is good. You can then be called a "Red Neck" with authority. Most of the people, men and women, who use test. supplements have no color changes, but some report increase in pimples around the hair line. This is common with test. and DHEA of which I will not give the biochemical pathways--- so you will keep reading. Your results are seen more with the injectables.

It would be fruitless to discuss your case, as you outlined, without knowing all the drugs you were on.


Hormones replacement therapy, unlike most drugs, are beneficial because of their side effect profiles, rather than their direct pharmacological profile.
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FYI, I take a MVI, fish oil, Vit D3, Magnesium Orotate, 1 baby aspirin and DHEA.
 
that helps, ask your prescriber about adding some CoQ10 and iron, with the additional iron showing up in your crit, it would be of use in your electron transport system. what strength of DHEA?
 
If one or the other, I think it's a bunch of todo about nothing. But health nuts may see something different.
 
rt3 said:
that helps, ask your prescriber about adding some CoQ10 and iron, with the additional iron showing up in your crit, it would be of use in your electron transport system. what strength of DHEA?
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I don't understand the adding of iron. When someone has polycythemia, whether polycythemia vera or secondary, the treatment protocol is to have no iron supplementation and go on a low iron diet.

Newly Old
 
Yeah, I shouldn't have posted anything since I really didn't known what you were talking about. It was the way the question was posed. Apologies to the General.
 
Mg is necessary for photosynthesis, and gives plants their green color. when your lawn is brown do you feed it Mg, no you give it iron. Why do plants and animals require iron for their energy cycle? The electron transport system --- which provides the energy at the cellular level. 70% or more of the total population on the planet is low on iron. High crit is not polycythemia, but can be used as one of the many clinical lab indications for a deeper look. High crit only means that the total number of blood cells have increased in the same volume size of lab sample taken for analysis. Since there are more blood cells per unit volume there is more measurable iron.

I'm guessing that you are in a "younger" age group, perhaps in the 30-40 range. It is good that you have started to address low hormone issues earlier than later in life. This additional help gives your body a better chance of combating disease, aging and getting more out of the exercise you are doing.

You should give some thought about adding more t3 to your regimen. Even desiccated thyroid would be beneficial. Remind you doctor that the laboratory TSH level has been lowered as of last summer by the WHO, as your prescribers may be using the older.
 
as suggested in another post in the health section, try to find colloidal iron, as it is absorbed far, far better and doesn't cause constipation.
 
sooner or later

nursinghome.jpg
 
well they say a picture is worth a thousand words-- so here goes
whats your point?
the elevator will be down soon and the lady can get on
the guy in the wheelchair doesn't know if the lady will hold the elevator for him
the guy in the wheelchair doesn't care if the lady holds the elevator
the TV is broken and out for repair
the old stuff on the bulletin board needs to be taken down
the guy in the wheelchair is better off than someone in a wheelchair in Africa
am I there yet?
only 900 more words to go.
 
They push ads for this everyday on the radio, wanting even young men over 30 to sign up for their program. There's something for everyone out there, to each his own.
 

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