Cleveland Indians will become Cleveland Guardians

It's a shame what sports has become. It's no wonder why the older guys are shying away from going to games. Some of the older guys are still glued to the TV for sports, but I am not one of them anymore. I don't see anything racist about the word "Indians."

This is just one way that politics is slowly destroying the old America and dividing the country. We have become the laughing stock of the world.
yes you have.. but don't think for one minute you're alone. Great Britain too is right there along with you where this is concerned.
 

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Indigenous Americans are not Indian, the word Indian came to be used because Christopher Columbus repeatedly expressed the mistaken belief that he had reached the shores of South Asia. Convinced he was correct, Columbus fostered the use of the term Indios, originally, a person from the Indus valley, to refer to the peoples of the so-called, New World.
You are not being highly informative. The American Indian is indigenous to "the new world". In continental European languages there are two words denoting people from India and people from the Americas. In Swedish for example Indier (from India) and Indian (from the American continent).
 
Indigenous Americans are not Indian, the word Indian came to be used because Christopher Columbus repeatedly expressed the mistaken belief that he had reached the shores of South Asia. Convinced he was correct, Columbus fostered the use of the term Indios, originally, a person from the Indus valley, to refer to the peoples of the so-called, New World.
You are right of course, but given the 500+ years of using the term to apply to the peoples who were here before the European settlement I think we kind of have to accept it as a done deal.
 
New York Yankees an insult to southerners?
Yes, it has always bothered me. The "Yankees" killed many of my ancestors, destroyed much of their property, freed their slaves without compensation, and put a couple in prison for no reason but trying to protect what was theirs...

Though all of this is true, I am being facetious about the name of course. Correcting mistakes of the past can be a real can of worms...
 
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Just think about it:
Indigenous people of the United States have asked us not to call them insulting names. Some people resent not being supported in their wish to continue calling them insulting names. Most native americans live on crappy reservations, not wealthy casinos. They were put there. All they are asking for is some respect, but no, that's too much for some of you.

My husband's family is indigenous to Canada. If I remember, I'll ask my son to tell you off
 
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I agree, but am not a Native American.

Do we have any Native Americans here? If so how do you feel about this? Probably more important than how we do.


My wife is Cherokee
(With a little bit of Irish in her on occasion)
I asked her
She doesn't give a rip
Busy making moccasins........slippers....busy making slippers
..yes but in reality which seems to be ignored by these people who are so desperate to be politically correct are that there are ''real'' Indians too.. people who are from India, people born to Indian parents. Haven't they the right to have their nation used in the name of a sports team, has anyone asked them ?
Yeah, I think they're more into cricket
 

Theodore Roosevelt: ‘The Only Good Indians Are the Dead Indians’​

"Seventeen years earlier, Roosevelt, then a young widower, left New York in favor of the Dakotas, where he built a ranch, rode horses and wrote about life on the frontier. When he returned to the east, he famously assertedthat “the most vicious cowboy has more moral principle than the average Indian.”
“I don’t go so far as to think that the only good Indians are the dead Indians, but I believe nine out of every 10 are,” Roosevelt said during a January 1886 speech in New York. “And I shouldn’t like to inquire too closely into the case of the tenth.”

‘The Only Good Indians Are the Dead Indians’
 
Indigenous people of the United States have asked us not to call them insulting names. Some people resent not being supported in their wish to continue calling them insulting names. Most native americans live on crappy reservations, not wealthy casinos. They were put there. All they are asking for is some respect, but no, that's too much for some of you.
What do indigenous people consider insulting? How do we know? I have not seen the requests you are talking about can you point them out.
I would like to show respect, have no feeling otherwise. However what that means and what it should look like seems hard to figure out. Too many different opinions on this.

Hearing what a majority or consensus of indigenous people themselves think would help.
 
Yes, it has always bothered me. The "Yankees" killed many of my ancestors, destroyed much of their property, freed their slaves without compensation, and put a couple in prison for no reason but trying to protect what was theirs...

Though all of this is true, I am being facetious about the name of course. Correcting mistakes of the past can be a real can of worms...
Yes, I find it strange that the flag of the southern states is now illegal but the stars and stripes is not.
 
Just think about it:
Indigenous people of the United States have asked us not to call them insulting names. Some people resent not being supported in their wish to continue calling them insulting names. Most native americans live on crappy reservations, not wealthy casinos. They were put there. All they are asking for is some respect, but no, that's too much for some of you.

My husband's family is indigenous to Canada. If I remember, I'll ask my son to tell you off
Well said, dear Pepper!
 

Theodore Roosevelt: ‘The Only Good Indians Are the Dead Indians’​

"Seventeen years earlier, Roosevelt, then a young widower, left New York in favor of the Dakotas, where he built a ranch, rode horses and wrote about life on the frontier. When he returned to the east, he famously assertedthat “the most vicious cowboy has more moral principle than the average Indian.”
“I don’t go so far as to think that the only good Indians are the dead Indians, but I believe nine out of every 10 are,” Roosevelt said during a January 1886 speech in New York. “And I shouldn’t like to inquire too closely into the case of the tenth.”

‘The Only Good Indians Are the Dead Indians’
I heard the same sort of crap in Vietnam and I probably repeated some of it myself until I became an adult and began to understand life a bit better.
 
yes you have.. but don't think for one minute you're alone. Great Britain too is right there along with you where this is concerned.
You're not wrong there, Holly. Do you remember a few years ago someone getting their knickers in a twist over the word, "Christmas?"
We can't have that, it's an insult to non Christian religions and to those who lead a secular life. No, no, no, we must replace it to be all encompassing.
"Happy Winterval."
Then some other micky taker said, "I'm from Australia, it's my summer, hell, I'm insulted."
Winterval was quietly swept under the carpet.
 
PLAYING HIPPIES AND INDIANS: ACTS OF CULTURAL COLONIZATION IN THE
THEATRE OF THE AMERICAN COUNTERCULTURE

This comes from a PDF file and is a dissertation paper.

"In this dissertation, I examine the appropriation of Native American cultures and
histories in the theatre of the American counterculture of the 1960s and seventies, using
the Living Theatre’s Paradise Now, the street theatricals and broadsides of the San
Francisco Diggers, and James Rado and Gerome Ragni’s Hair: The American Tribal-
Love Rock Musical as my primary case studies. Defining themselves by points of
difference from mainstream America and its traditional social and cultural values,
counterculturalists often attempted to align themselves with Native Americans in order to
express an imagined sense of shared otherness. Representations of Natives on
countercultural stages, however, were frequently steeped in stereotype, and they often
depicted Native cultures inaccurately, elided significant tribal differences, and relegated
Native identity almost wholly to the past, a practice that was particularly problematic in
light of concurrent Native rights movements that were actively engaged in bringing
national attention to the contemporary issues and injustices Native Americans faced on a
daily basis."

Maybe "Dances with Wolves" was the first "Real" awakening about the genocide of the Indenginous Americans.?
 
.................... "Happy Winterval." Then some other micky taker said, "I'm from Australia, it's my summer, hell, I'm insulted."
Winterval was quietly swept under the carpet.
I lived in Rhodesia in the mid-late 1970s. At Christmas time they would erect flat, plyboard fir trees in the park in the centre of Salisbury. They were painted green with white tips to signify snow. I don't know what the Africans thought about it but I thought it was very silly. Fir trees didn't grow in Rhodesia, it never snowed there and even if it would snow it wouldn't be in December. And then, of course, Christmas is supposed to honour the birth of Christ in Bethlehem where there certainly was no snow there either.
 
I agree but I think we know some of it already.
I don't feel like I know of it, now with respect to indigenous American peoples anyway. I can look out my window right now and see a very large I on the mountainside above me. It is for the Intermountain Indian School (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hillside_letters_in_Utah and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermountain_Indian_School ). The school has been closed for almost 40 years but someone still maintains that I. Not sure who, I always assumed it was some of the graduates of the school. Anyway I don't know that the I has created any ill feelings, never heard that it has. Not that all of the people who went to the school had good experiences, I know many did not, but the Indian name is something else.

My touchstone for this is the N word, I grew up in the US south and heard the N word used freely, I used it. And at first I was resistant to stopping, but now I understand that it is insulting to most black people to hear it, from whites anyway. So out of respect I no longer use it, and don't like hearing others who do. I just don't have anything close to that understanding of how indigenous people, most of them anyway, feel about being called Indians. I know the name originated from Columbus' misunderstanding over 500 years ago, but I don't know that the word has been used as insulting or disrespectful. It is not when I use it.
 
Just think about it:
Indigenous people of the United States have asked us not to call them insulting names. Some people resent not being supported in their wish to continue calling them insulting names. Most native americans live on crappy reservations, not wealthy casinos. They were put there. All they are asking for is some respect, but no, that's too much for some of you.

My husband's family is indigenous to Canada. If I remember, I'll ask my son to tell you off
Well said Pepper, I agree. Little to ask to finally give some consideration to Native Americans who were killed and had their lands stolen from them, and are still being disrespected until this very day. It's just a name, an easy way to rise above and show some respect. Not going to get into politics here, but anyone who is unfamiliar with history, can just google Trail of Tears as a start. That's all I have to say on the subject.
 
A few years ago (five?) Whoopi Goldberg, on The View, asked non black viewers to not say the 'n' word. Her people, said Whoopi, found it distressing. She said more, but that is the gist. It was a moment for me. When a member of a group asks so sweetly not to do something, why should I do it? What kind of schmuck would I be to use it? Did I need the names of the exact black people, the amount of black people besides Whoopi before I took her word for it? Nope. Why not? Because I'm not a dick. I didn't need a survey or a poll of black folks to convince me. One was enough. Same goes here. How about using the NYC Yids? The NJersey Wops? It is common sense and obvious we no longer do these things. It's no longer apropos. No big deal. What's the inner need for using 'redskins', etc. What's wrong with someone insisting they must use these terms? Simple. Dicks.
 
I don't feel like I know of it, now with respect to indigenous American peoples anyway. I can look out my window right now and see a very large I on the mountainside above me. It is for the Intermountain Indian School (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hillside_letters_in_Utah and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermountain_Indian_School ). The school has been closed for almost 40 years but someone still maintains that I. Not sure who, I always assumed it was some of the graduates of the school. Anyway I don't know that the I has created any ill feelings, never heard that it has. Not that all of the people who went to the school had good experiences, I know many did not, but the Indian name is something else.

My touchstone for this is the N word, I grew up in the US south and heard the N word used freely, I used it. And at first I was resistant to stopping, but now I understand that it is insulting to most black people to hear it, from whites anyway. So out of respect I no longer use it, and don't like hearing others who do. I just don't have anything close to that understanding of how indigenous people, most of them anyway, feel about being called Indians. I know the name originated from Columbus' misunderstanding over 500 years ago, but I don't know that the word has been used as insulting or disrespectful. It is not when I use it.
I don't think the term Indian is offensive to them, is it? Maybe I missed that detail in the discussion? I'm thinking more of calling all of them "Indian Joe" or "Chief" and "Indian giver" and assuming they live in "teepees" and smoke "peace pipes" when they want to be friends or make up with someone. Those sort of things.

On your other comment, it sure does irk me to hear black Americans using the "n-word" amongst themselves. I don't understand that at all. If the term is considered racist isn't it racist for anyone to use it? And what about "honky"? Is that allowed by law? Yes, I can see that it is because I just spelled it out without needing to spell it the "H-word".
 

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