Cops: love 'um or hate 'um

OneEyedDiva said:
I find it ironic and quite angering that some of the most dangerous (White) "suspects" known to have committed mass murders and shootings get taken in alive, while Black people pulled over for traffic offenses, or those chilling in their own homes, wind up dead!
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Did those white suspects give up willingly or, like almost all the recent shootings in the news did they resist arrest and fight back?
 

fuzzybuddy said:
I don't think you can judge a whole group of people by what a few do. Of course, we are all entirely law abiding citizens, who wouldn't dream of breaking any laws. But reality tells us that we need people to enforce the laws. And these people are also our first responders, too. And cops are human, They have the same biases , and fears as we all do. And being in the business they are in, it's hard not let what they see affect them.. I think cops need way more training, besides OJT, and way more supervision. Being a cop is a profession, and they should be professionally paid.
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$27K starting pay here in Detroit, does anybody really think we're getting the best and brightest?
 
garyt1957 said:
Did those white suspects give up willingly or, like almost all the recent shootings in the news did they resist arrest and fight back?
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Moot point since I have pointed out that people who had no business being shot and killed were. The "punch line" when people of color are shot (even those unarmed) is that they were perceived as a threat. Someone who shot and killed several people in a movie theater or a school is not perceived as a threat? Seriously??!! But to answer your question, many were following the instructions given by the officer(s) and killed anyway. And really, do you need to kill an unarmed person who was stopped for a traffic violation?!
 

All this "anti-cop" activity is starting to show up in increasing crime rates, in most major cities. Increasing numbers of cops are leaving that career, and those that remain are increasingly hesitant to respond to a call....especially in the inner city "minority" neighborhoods. About the Only Positive in the past year is the increasing sales of guns and ammo, as more and more people are faced with the probability of having to defend themselves.
 
Personally I do not have a problem with officers shooting a fleeing / unarmed suspect . The goal is not to level the playing field, the goal is to stop / apprehend the suspect. That is what we pay our police to do. If the suspect refuses to halt ..... IMO all bets are off.

How many fleeing suspects, possible felnons do we want our police to just ignore / let go free ? to do what ever ? To whom ever ? .......... Perhaps you or a loved one.

If the police kick in my door as i type this ..... I am going to comply with every command given. I know I am as innocent as it gets, @ this very moment .... But i have no idea what information they are acting on. I am not going to chance [I'm right you guys are wrong] at the muzzle of a gun. We have a system in place to fight the charges / actions ...... and that is where I'll make my fight.
 
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Don M. said:
All this "anti-cop" activity is starting to show up in increasing crime rates, in most major cities. Increasing numbers of cops are leaving that career, and those that remain are increasingly hesitant to respond to a call....especially in the inner city "minority" neighborhoods. About the Only Positive in the past year is the increasing sales of guns and ammo, as more and more people are faced with the probability of having to defend themselves.
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Agreed. I talked to a friend of mine today who lives in an upscale area of Chicago. She said that crime used to be confined to the South Side of Chicago, but now there are carjackings in her neighborhood and crime is generally spread throughout the city. She said people are now even avoiding Michigan Avenue due to crime. Chicago is a great city. So sad.
 
OneEyedDiva said:
Moot point since I have pointed out that people who had no business being shot and killed were. The "punch line" when people of color are shot (even those unarmed) is that they were perceived as a threat. Someone who shot and killed several people in a movie theater or a school is not perceived as a threat? Seriously??!! But to answer your question, many were following the instructions given by the officer(s) and killed anyway. And really, do you need to kill an unarmed person who was stopped for a traffic violation?!
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Moot point?! It's the only point! Don't resist and you don't die! For the vast majority of these incidences that's the simple solution.
And yes, there are certainly some bad shoots also and nothing excuses that and those cops need to rot in jail.
Can you name me some cases of people who were actually complying with instructions were shot? I'd really like to investigate because I don't know of any, but willing to learn.
 
ohioboy said:
Sorry, that's not correct.
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Know Your Rights | Stopped by Police (aclu.org)
  • You have the right to remain silent. For example, you do not have to answer any questions about where you are going, where you are traveling from, what you are doing, or where you live. If you wish to exercise your right to remain silent, say so out loud. (In some states, you may be required to provide your name if asked to identify yourself, and an officer may arrest you for refusing to do so.)
As of 2013, 24 states had stop-and-identify laws. Regardless of your state’s law, keep in mind that police can never compel you to identify yourself without reasonable suspicion to believe you’re involved in illegal activity.
When can police ask for ID? - Flex Your Rights

So if you're just standing on a street corner a cop CANNOT just ask you for ID.
 
rgp said:
Personally I do not have a problem with officers shooting a fleeing / unarmed suspect . The goal is not to level the playing field, the goal is to stop / apprehend the suspect. That is what we pay our police to do. If the suspect refuses to halt ..... IMO all bets are off.

How many fleeing suspects, possible felnons do we want our police to just ignore / let go free ? to do what ever ? To whom ever ? .......... Perhaps you or a loved one.

If the police kick in my door as i type this ..... I am going to comply with every command given. I know I am as innocent as it gets, @ this very moment .... But i have no idea what information they are acting on. I am not going to chance [I'm right you guys are wrong] at the muzzle of a gun. We have a system in place to fight the charges / actions ...... and that is where I'll make my fight.
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Exactly
 
I could not do their job, way too much stress and unwarranted criticism and mistrust. They are hated until they are needed. They are judged collectively by the actions of one. I grew up in the 60's being 16 in 1964. My only bribe of an officer was in Joliet maybe the nations most corrupt force at the time. He suggested I could drive away from a ticket for $20 and so I did. I witnessed the 1968 Chicago Democratic Convention riots under gangster mayor Richard Daly. I took a picture of a billboard in Florida once. It showed a uniformed police officer giving CPR to a child and the caption was "Some Call Him Pig". I will never forget that. They are people.
 
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garyt1957 said:
Know Your Rights | Stopped by Police (aclu.org)
  • You have the right to remain silent. For example, you do not have to answer any questions about where you are going, where you are traveling from, what you are doing, or where you live. If you wish to exercise your right to remain silent, say so out loud. (In some states, you may be required to provide your name if asked to identify yourself, and an officer may arrest you for refusing to do so.)
As of 2013, 24 states had stop-and-identify laws. Regardless of your state’s law, keep in mind that police can never compel you to identify yourself without reasonable suspicion to believe you’re involved in illegal activity.
When can police ask for ID? - Flex Your Rights

So if you're just standing on a street corner a cop CANNOT just ask you for ID.
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Yes, that is fine and good for book readers but life on the streets requires common sense. There is a big difference.
 
jerry old said:
Cops: love 'um or hate 'um
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I spent over 28 years working in a couple of California's largest law enforcement agencies, and have nothing but the utmost respect for the individuals that work therein.
Some police agencies need to improve on their hiring practices and officer training,in order to reduce officer involved shooting incidents. That said, there are more and more occasions where armed response is necessary, when events are go out of control, with mentally ill subjects often becoming the latest news story. When there is someone brandishing a weapon in public, there are few options available to a police officer.
 
Sassycakes said:
I have a great deal of love and respect for Police Officers and Veterans also, They put their lives in jeopardy for us every day.
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That's what we're wired & programmed to believe. The truth is quite a different story. Police can choose to protect us, but they have NO duty to:
https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/...ot-have-a-constitutional-duty-to-protect.html

The United States Constitution does not require police to protect you from an individual attacker. This has remained an unwavering rule since our ancient common law history and won't change anytime soon. Michael Ehline is lead counsel with the California personal injury law firm at Ehline Law.Apr 7, 2021
 
garyt1957 said:
Know Your Rights | Stopped by Police (aclu.org)
  • You have the right to remain silent. For example, you do not have to answer any questions about where you are going, where you are traveling from, what you are doing, or where you live. If you wish to exercise your right to remain silent, say so out loud. (In some states, you may be required to provide your name if asked to identify yourself, and an officer may arrest you for refusing to do so.)
As of 2013, 24 states had stop-and-identify laws. Regardless of your state’s law, keep in mind that police can never compel you to identify yourself without reasonable suspicion to believe you’re involved in illegal activity.
When can police ask for ID? - Flex Your Rights

So if you're just standing on a street corner a cop CANNOT just ask you for ID
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I'm aware of the Hiibel case. The point is, there is nothing in the 4th Amendment that forbids an officer from simply walking up to a person and asking to see some ID. Hiibel addresses a compliance mandate, it does not forbid simply asking. There is a SC case "directly" on point, I'm trying to remember it, PRE Hiibel.

Here is a thread I started in June.

seniorforums.com/threads/police-let-me-see-your-i-d-a-lawful-order.61234

Copy and paste.
 
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Average police persons in this era are enormously more civil and law abiding than during the anti war civil rights counterculture era I came of age in. Generally the dominant society and media did not like youth counterculture. The movie ending of Easy Rider was realistic. It was common practice in many cities to beat up long hairs in station elevators simply because of the way they looked or toss them in jail cells with known perverts. Youth culture called them pigs which they hated so they retaliated. Over decades that friction changed and police became accountable. In this era here in California where public servants tend to be accountable, I support, trust, will help, and value police.
 
ohioboy said:
I'm aware of the Hiibel case. The point is, there is nothing in the 4th Amendment that forbids an officer from simply walking up to a person and asking to see some ID. Hiibel addresses a compliance mandate, it does not forbid simply asking. There is a SC case "directly" on point, I'm trying to remember it, PRE Hiibel.

Here is a thread I started in June.

seniorforums.com/threads/police-let-me-see-your-i-d-a-lawful-order.61234

Copy and paste.
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The Hiibel decision was narrow in that it applied only to states that have stop and identify statutes. Consequently, individuals in states without such statutes cannot be lawfully arrested solely for refusing to identify themselves during a Terry stop.
 
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