Cultural Differences

L

Lon

Well-known Member
Location
Central California
Cultural Differences
It never ceased to get my attention when I observed the many cultural differences between Americans and New Zealanders. It's not that one is right and the other wrong, just different. The use of a knife & fork for example. We Yanks stab our food with a fork and will cut meat and veggies with a fork instead of a knife. I accidentally step on some ones foot and have them apologise to me. "SORRY"they say. No verbal acknowledgement of who won or lost a sports match be it golf, bowls, tennis etc. as well as the extremely quiet tone during these matches. No yelling or shouting, no high fives. We Yanks are a boisterous people after all.
I deliberately wore a pair of bright red trousers to play Bowls. (I don't have the traditional whites). I don't mind being the TALL POPPY, after all I am 6' 4". I realize of course that I am allowed a bit of slack due to the fact that my wife was a Kiwi and I am American.
 

Lon said:
Cultural Differences
It never ceased to get my attention when I observed the many cultural differences between Americans and New Zealanders. It's not that one is right and the other wrong, just different. The use of a knife & fork for example. We Yanks stab our food with a fork and will cut meat and veggies with a fork instead of a knife. I accidentally step on some ones foot and have them apologise to me. "SORRY"they say. No verbal acknowledgement of who won or lost a sports match be it golf, bowls, tennis etc. as well as the extremely quiet tone during these matches. No yelling or shouting, no high fives. We Yanks are a boisterous people after all.
I deliberately wore a pair of bright red trousers to play Bowls. (I don't have the traditional whites). I don't mind being the TALL POPPY, after all I am 6' 4". I realize of course that I am allowed a bit of slack due to the fact that my wife was a Kiwi and I am American.
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Unless the meat is something like meat loaf I cut my meat and most veggies with the knife and eat with the fork.
 
Lon said:
Check cashing is another one that gets me. I have had Kiwi's wait two months before depositing a check that I wrote them. A Yank will deposit a check before the ink is dry.

The Tall Poppy Syndrome is alive and well in NZ but not the U.S.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome
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I had never heard of the "Tall Poppy Syndrome" until you posted the link Lon, but I agree its the Brits mentality, or used to be, with travel and the mixing of cultures a lot of these differences are less obvious. As a child I got the impression we regarded Americans as boastful and full of themselves, I am not sure if it was envy or just our mentality towards being assertive and proud of our own achievements.

We often don't cash cheques in the UK for a while, though they are rarely used here now, but these days I would cash one straight away before I mislaid it. :D
 
Most New Zealanders are of Scotch, Irish, English backround and of course have the carry over characteristics of those cultures. My second wife's grand parents were from Scotland. I found Kiw's to be extremely polite and courteous and to avoid being called a "Tall Poppy", very humble.
 
Josiah said:
Lon give me an example of the Tall Poppy Syndrome Kiwi style.
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To avoid being called a Tall Poppy one must blend in and not stand out. I was going to wear a white golf shirt in a tournament and my son in law said I should change to a different color because white would make me stand out. In the game of BOWLS however, whites are OK, but not my red trousers.
 
Aussies and Kiwis are different but we do share some characteristics.
The tall poppy syndrome is one of them.

tall poppy
A person who stands out from the crowd by being successful, rich, or famous. It is often said that Australians have a tendency to cut tall poppies down to size by denigrating them. This is known as the tall poppy syndrome. First recorded 1902.


I remember way back when we were at school if someone was a bit full of themselves someone else would exclaim "Tickets please" to indicate that that they had tickets on themselves. It was a way of cutting them down to size.

tickets: have tickets on yourself
Be conceited, have a high opinion of yourself—‘He’s got tickets on himself if he thinks I’ll go out with him’. The original meaning of ‘ticket’ is uncertain, but it may refer to betting tickets (a person is so conceited that he backs himself), to raffle tickets, to a high price tag (especially one on the outfit of a mannequin in a shop window), or to prize ribbons awarded at an agricultural show.

Australians are not known for their politeness. On the contrary, we are "stirrers" and are known to insult each other as a sign of friendship.

Stirrer: someone who causes trouble
1. trouble-maker, especially one who is only stirring in jest; 2. activist, especially in a political context
 
Speaking of tall poppies being cut down.

Johnny Depp is the latest victim in OZ.
Regardless of his fame, wealth, influence or sex appeal he is being taught a lesson in humility by our Minister for Agriculture.

Australian quarantine laws are very strict and there is tight control over any imports that could adversely affect our agriculture, livestock industries or natural environment. Johnny Depp attempted to side step these laws when he failed to declare his two pet Yorkshire terriers last month. He brought them into the country without the necessary paperwork and stay in quarantine.

Now he has 48 hours to remove them back to California or the dogs, which have been seized, with be put down.

I enjoy Depp's movies and I think that he is a unique talent, but I'm 100% behind Barnaby Joyce, even though I consider him to be a bit of a buffoon.
The rich and famous should not be treated more leniently than anyone else. Quarantine in Australia is strict for very good reasons.

I hope Pistol and Boo are soon on their way home to the US. They are but innocent extras in this melodrama.

http://in.reuters.com/article/2015/05/14/australia-entertainment-dogs-idINL3N0Y506F20150514
 
Interesting story, but short, IMO. There must be more to it than that. Just because he's rich and famous, doesn't necessarily mean he needs to be taught a lesson in humility. It could have been an honest mistake. That law seems very draconian to me, although it is reasonable that he needs the paperwork, but why not let him do the paperwork there in Aus. rather than threatening to kill the animals, which seems rather cruel. IMO.

It's interesting that the agricultural minister is taking such a personal interest to see that Depp is taught a lesson. Usually, government agencies let staff take care of these things. Apparently in another article, the minister is accused of grandstanding to deflect the real problem which is budget cuts that led to the the dogs slipping by.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-32732313

http://www.theguardian.com/film/aus...face-death-after-entering-australia-illegally
 
It could have been an honest mistake
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That's what everyone says as they attempt to smuggle in prohibited food and other plant and animal products through customs. If they are honest and declare them then there is no penalty. If Depp had been honest about what he was bringing in with him, i.e. two dogs, he would have been told that he could not bring his dogs in without the necessary papers and they would have been sent home until the correct permits etc were acquired. He would not have been fined or penalised in any way, just inconvenienced.

Johnny Depp is not unintelligent. The monkeys used in the film had to follow correct protocols for legal entry and Depp would have been aware of them. He assumed that the laws did not apply to him. How he got the dogs off the plane and through customs should be investigated because it is tantamount to smuggling. I seriously doubt that they were carried under his arms, or that they passed through in a carrier cage. More likely hidden in a couple of handbags.

We will see what he does next. The correct thing to do is to obey the law and send the dogs back where they came from and pay any fine that he cops. If he tries to stand his ground and the dogs are put down, then that in on his head, not on the Agriculture Minister because his job is to uphold the law, not to make exceptions for film stars or cute little dogs. It is possible that he might throw a major tantrum and refuse to finish filming, putting a major film in jeopardy but I hope not. I think he is too professional to do this.

This topic is about cultural differences and this is a stark illustration of one of these. Australia and Australians are very serious about quarantine. Tall poppies get no special favours when it come to quarantine risks.
 
Lon said:
Cultural Differences
It never ceased to get my attention when I observed the many cultural differences between Americans and New Zealanders. It's not that one is right and the other wrong, just different. The use of a knife & fork for example. We Yanks stab our food with a fork and will cut meat and veggies with a fork instead of a knife. I accidentally step on some ones foot and have them apologise to me. "SORRY"they say. No verbal acknowledgement of who won or lost a sports match be it golf, bowls, tennis etc. as well as the extremely quiet tone during these matches. No yelling or shouting, no high fives. We Yanks are a boisterous people after all.
I deliberately wore a pair of bright red trousers to play Bowls. (I don't have the traditional whites). I don't mind being the TALL POPPY, after all I am 6' 4". I realize of course that I am allowed a bit of slack due to the fact that my wife was a Kiwi and I am American.
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Europeans eat the same way. You only see Americans using a fork to cut food that really requires a knife. And cutting food then changing hands is uniquely American. I think it was some sort of rebellion against anything British way back when.
 
Ameriscot said:
Europeans eat the same way. You only see Americans using a fork to cut food that really requires a knife. And cutting food then changing hands is uniquely American. I think it was some sort of rebellion against anything British way back when.
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Interestingly I started using a fork to cut up and eat some soft foods such as fish and soft meat many years ago, it seems natural to me. I don't do the switching you mentioned though. Maybe I need one of these http://is.gd/epOH6M
 
merlin said:
Interestingly I started using a fork to cut up and eat some soft foods such as fish and soft meat many years ago, it seems natural to me. I don't do the switching you mentioned though. Maybe I need one of these http://is.gd/epOH6M
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Most Americans will cut their food, put down the knife and switch the fork to the other hand. Repeat. I didn't realize this was inefficient since I grew up doing this, and started doing it the other way when I moved to the UK. Occasionally I noticed people in the US doing it the UK way and we always called it the European way. My husband calls the US way silverware acrobatics. :D
 
Ever spoken before you put your brain in gear? One evening I was dining along with two American airline pilots. I made the observation that the KLM plane that I had arrived on, had an all female crew. One of the pilots was not impressed and said that he wouldn't trust a woman to fly a plane. Without thinking, I said that I wouldn't trust anyone who couldn't use a knife & fork.
Oops!
 
Capt Lightning said:
Ever spoken before you put your brain in gear? One evening I was dining along with two American airline pilots. I made the observation that the KLM plane that I had arrived on, had an all female crew. One of the pilots was not impressed and said that he wouldn't trust a woman to fly a plane. Without thinking, I said that I wouldn't trust anyone who couldn't use a knife & fork.
Oops!
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Oops is right!
 
DW, I see your point, however, I saw that many Australians felt very bad when the Indonesian government executed the drug smugglers, yet isn't this situation somewhat similar, death penalty for smuggling, but in this case its the dogs that are threatened to be executed? Smuggling dogs=smuggling drugs?
 
That's stretching it a bit Cookie.

Depp has the option of removing the dogs quickly from Australia and he certainly can afford to do so.
They have already been taken to the poodle parlour so quarantine is now pointless.
If he refuses the dogs will be seized and put down.
Their bodies will be incinerated because that is how all prohibited biohazardous material is disposed of when it is intercepted at the border.
What happens in Canada? If I tried to smuggle in a lizard in my handbag, how would I get on and what would happen to the lizard?

Depp is not under arrest and will only face a fine for his actions in bringing the dogs in without proper certification and quarantine period.

Lots of people are assuming that a celebrity's pet would be totally free of disease and parasites but that ain't necessarily so.
I have heard that Depp's own personal hygiene is somewhat lacking.
Why would we assume that his dogs haven't picked up some worms etc that we don't yet have in this country?
That's why correct paperwork is required before entry to Australia.
 
Use one of two methods when using the fork and knife

American Style: Knife in right hand, fork in left hand holding food. After a few bite-sized pieces of food are cut, place knife on edge of plate with blades facing in. Eat food by switching fork to right hand (unless you are left handed). A left hand, arm or elbow on the table is bad manners.

Continental/European Style: Knife in right hand, fork in left hand. Eat food with fork still in left hand. The difference is that you don't switch hands-you eat with your fork in your left hand, with the prongs curving downward. Both utensils are kept in your hands with the tines pointed down throughout the entire eating process. If you take a drink, you do not just put your knife down, you put both utensils down into the resting position: cross the fork over the knife.

http://whatscookingamerica.net/Menu/DiningEtiquetteGuide.htm
 
I agree, DW, but does the punishment really fit the crime? I'm just pointing out that I think that Depp is being punished for being rich, cutting down the tall poppy so to speak, judging from the attitude of the minister and his glee at 'catching' Depp out.

Also, it seems ridiculous to me that they would not allow someone (rich or poor) to fulfill the obligation of having the pet's certification done on Oz soil since that's where they already are. Seems like they just want to use Depp as an example. Killing the little pet dogs seems barbaric to say the least. I'm for Depp, and I give a big huge thumbs down to the minister.

In Canada, I'm not sure what they do with seized pets, I doubt very much that they would kill them, as there would be a huge public outcry and the government would be severely criticized. In fact our customs officials are very competent and would check for the paperwork, so this situation is unlikely to arise. I would say the customs officials in Oz are at fault here for not checking the paperwork and allowing this to happen. They are embarrassed and focusing on Depp, to save face, because in fact they do look pretty incompetent. There is no account given that that Depp actually sneaked them in, it could be a complete fabrication on the part of the minister to save his own behind.
 
Killing a few pets is insignificant against the prospect of destroying whole herds of cattle or uprooting and burning whole apple orchards. By happy accident of geography Australia and New Zealand have been free of disease problems that plague the rest of the world. We have disease free bees when hives are dying elsewhere, our feral camels are imported into the Middle East because they are much healthier than the local ones, we have no mad cow and no foot and mouth. We have escaped a lot of plant diseases too so don't ever try to smuggle a piece of fruit through customs. The big one is that we have never had rabies here but if it should get into the native and feral animal populations we would never get rid of it again.

Mistakes have been made in the past and we now have a feral animal problem from the English bringing their rabbits, foxes, sparrows and farm animals and allowing them to escape. Pests such as the cane toads have been unwisely introduced and are causing devastation to our wildlife.

With all this in mind, it is the Minister for Agriculture's job to uphold our quarantine laws. He's a bit of a buffoon, I grant you, but on this occasion he is correct.
The punishment is a fine and confiscation of property. That the property is alive is immaterial. Johnny Depp is actually receiving kid gloves treatment by being allowed to ship his pets back home. Most people are not so lucky.
 
Horrible! Believe me, I'll never go there and wouldn't ever dream of smuggling anything ever.

I believe Australia has/did have a feral cat problem and I think I had some personal experience with it. We lived outside of Adelaide on a farm when I was a small child in the early 50s and there was a colony of feral cats, one of which I adopted. Then they were just regular sized cats. I don't know what happened to them, but not long ago I saw a documentary about the huge feral cats of S. Australia and how they were causing a lot of damage. I thought that my little feral pet cat might be the ancestor of the now huge ones.
 

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