Dear God, another school shooting?

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Granny B. said:
So apparently the kid is 17 yrs old and the guns belong to his father. I say charge the father with murder as well, or at least accessory to murder. If you have guns and you have kids then you have the obligation to keep the guns out the hands of your children, especially your mentally disturbed children—you're probably the reason they are messed up in the first place.
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Well, I totally disagree with you. The "kid" is practically grown and is being charged as an adult. Let's let him be responsible and pay for his own actions.
 

According to some statistics we have 50 million public school children in the United States.

That is more than the entire population of Canada or Austrailia and about 20% less than the combined total.

I agree that no kid should ever be in danger or live in fear while attending a public school but I'm a little concerned about the money being spent across the country on things that may not do any good.

I'm afraid that this will become similar to the money spent on Homeland Security. Today HS has an annual budget of 47 billion dollars and I'm not at all sure that we are any safer today than we were 15 years ago.

I realize that it is impossible to put a price on a child's life but I can't help but feel that we are allowing the Bogeyman to drive these policies and we will never be able to get a handle on what if any difference it has made to the safety of our schools.

I don't know how we will ever be able to stop random attacks and I'm not sure that throwing money at it will do any good.
 

Traveler said:
:eek:


Sunny, sorry to disagree BUT,

1.) The numbers of unsupervised children has increased a thousand fold.

2.) We can not possibly compare the toy guns of the past with the violent games of today. The ULTRA- VIOLENT ULTRA-REALISTIC games of today are, in fact, altering our kids minds. To compare the toy cap guns of yesteryear or the silly arcade games of our youth, with the ultra realistic, ultra bloody games of today is like comparing Gary Grant kissing Vivian Leigh to XXX porn. We can say both involve sexuality, but XXX porn is dramatically different.

Wait. Now that I think about it, there were no arcade games in MY youth, just pinball machines.
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And we now know about brain plasticity. The male brain is not fully developed until mid twenties and absorption in any activity, whether it is watching porn or playing violent video computer games does produce changes in brain structure. This is why young men are easy targets for radicalisation. They do need responsible men in their lives at this vulnerable time.
 
StarSong said:
Will the US ever figure out how to stop our citizens from being slaughtered?
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Hoot N Annie said:
I'm seeing that 8 or 10 dead at this point. Condolences to all the families.
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And that wasn't the last shooting. Just last night another one took place after a graduation at a school in Georgia.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/05/1...shooting-leaves-1-dead-1-hurt-police-say.html
This is very disturbing...the new norm! It's terrifying and sad. My prayers go out to all who have lost loved ones. These children who witnessed the horror will suffer with PTSD and I don't know how they can ever feel safe in a classroom again.

 
Many folks have taken a better look at what is our problem. Mental problems for many folks and some just darn poor training about how to live with others and how to manage our own personal hurts.

Also other are saying how terrible the US is, I won't argue that. But for them to say so many of our neighbor countries never have near as much shooting as the US. This is an outright lie. We have a country in Europe that not only gives all its people weapons to have at home for self defence and for their military years. When done with their military they can choose to keep the weapon at home for their own gun club activities.

Certainly not a bunch of kill crazy folks in Switzerland. They believe that training from very young and onward is right way to go. On the other hand the US is afraid to support gun clubs and train folks wiith respect for others ways. Instead we blame guns for the twisted minds of the gun operators.

That is where the problem lies, in the heads of the shooters as the gun alone has no will or mind to kill.
 
Aunt Bea said:
According to some statistics we have 50 million public school children in the United States.

That is more than the entire population of Canada or Austrailia and about 20% less than the combined total.

I agree that no kid should ever be in danger or live in fear while attending a public school but I'm a little concerned about the money being spent across the country on things that may not do any good.

I'm afraid that this will become similar to the money spent on Homeland Security. Today HS has an annual budget of 47 billion dollars and I'm not at all sure that we are any safer today than we were 15 years ago.

I realize that it is impossible to put a price on a child's life but I can't help but feel that we are allowing the Bogeyman to drive these policies and we will never be able to get a handle on what if any difference it has made to the safety of our schools.

I don't know how we will ever be able to stop random attacks and I'm not sure that throwing money at it will do any good.
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I have to respectfully disagree that we're not safer from terrorist attacks than we were 15 years ago. It's cost a lot in dollars and freedoms, but it's hard to argue that we're not safer.

As for school shootings - this menace may feel like "the Bogeyman" when it doesn't affect your school or the school of someone you love, but that's not true for all of us. Every school shooting rocks me to my very core regardless of where it occurs. These attacks feel very real to me and have changed my life. Our nation needs to pull together to figure this out.

Warrigal, you are right on point about the adolescent mind.

Bob, what neighboring first world countries have the same rate of gun violence (deaths and injuries) as the US?

Of course a gun doesn't kill by itself. Nothing inanimate has a will of its own. Not guns, not furniture, not automobiles, not nuclear weapons, not mustard gas, not alcohol nor cigarettes, etc. Some are fully legal without legislating, others are considered dangerous in the wrong hands and are therefore licensed or restricted.
 
BobF said:
I watched long hours of the follow up interviews. I think I did hear that their were two officers assigned to this high school. If so, that is not the best way to go as 10 is a rather large number of dead. What was their activity? How fast did they get into action? I think one of the problems is a patrolman was badly injured or killed.

Yes, it does seem to be mental problems over and over. That should be a good warning for future events. Nothing wrong with good follow up for learning more and a chance for alerting the parents of what may be a hidden turn in a child's thinking.
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You are hoping for a miracle.

There's no way even professionals can see a hidden turn in anyone's thinking.
 
While these school shootings are certainly a tragedy, they are just the tip of the iceberg. In Chicago, for example, there have been 153 homicides so far, this year. Cities like Baltimore, Detroit, and St. Louis are not far behind. The difference being that most of these killings occur in the inner cities, among the "minorities", and are so commonplace that they barely register more than a short mention on the local evening news.

The number of "nutcases" who resort to shooting others over the slightest provocation is continually growing.
 
We continue to look at the "how" --- the guns themselves. Do we go into such discussions about the vehicle when a drunk driver kills a mother and 3 children ? No, of course not.

If we could wave a magic wand, and all guns disappeared, these disturbed young men would merely switch to killing with a car or truck (exactly like radical Muslims do in Europe).

When someone wants to kill, he can't be stopped. This is doubly true if the killer is willing to die in the process.

I repeat, we must look at the "why" and then address that.

I suggest that, at an absolute minimum, we make cyber bullying a crime. If, and when, a few hundred cyber bullies (across the nation) are hauled off in handcuffs and had to spend a few days in "Juvie", there would be a dramatic reduction in cyber bullying.

I am NOT suggesting that arresting cyber bullies is the end all, be all, of an answer, but it can't hurt to at least try.
 
Traveler said:
We continue to look at the "how" --- the guns themselves. Do we go into such discussions about the vehicle when a drunk driver kills a mother and 3 children ? No, of course not.

If we could wave a magic wand, and all guns disappeared, these disturbed young men would merely switch to killing with a car or truck (exactly like radical Muslims do in Europe).

When someone wants to kill, he can't be stopped. This is doubly true if the killer is willing to die in the process.

I repeat, we must look at the "why" and then address that.

I suggest that, at an absolute minimum, we make cyber bullying a crime. If, and when, a few hundred cyber bullies (across the nation) are hauled off in handcuffs and had to spend a few days in "Juvie", there would be a dramatic reduction in cyber bullying.

I am NOT suggesting that arresting cyber bullies is the end all, be all, of an answer, but it can't hurt to at least try.
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I totally concur with addressing the whys


The cyber bullies?
Man, I don't know
Are kids alone in handling them?
Can they be educated on how to cope, defuse, ignore?
Seems less spendy than arrests, trials, incarceration...seems
 
C'est Moi said:
It was reported on the news that the shooter used a sawed-off shotgun and a pistol.
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You are correct but there are versions of shotguns with shortened barrels that are legal. I think sawed off shotguns are illegal.

Excerpt:
Pagourtzis used firearms owned by his father and initially planned to kill himself in the bloody rampage but ultimately lost his nerve and surrendered, Texas Gov. Greg Abbott said.
Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas) said the shotgun was of the ultra-deadly sawed-off variety and that investigators were trying to determine whether the shortened barrel was legal.
 
Gary O' said:
I totally concur with addressing the whys


The cyber bullies?
Man, I don't know
Are kids alone in handling them?
Can they be educated on how to cope, defuse, ignore?
Seems less spendy than arrests, trials, incarceration...seems
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I'm not sure if actual trials of cyber bullies would ever be needed. It is quite possible that the humiliation of arrest and the discomfort of spending a few days in Juvenile Hall might be enough. Also, we would confiscate their cell phones. Doing the latter, would be easy because the cell is "evidence" of the crime.

The idea here is to get the cyber bully back in school ASAP where he/she could spread the word of arrest, Juvie, and lost cell phone.
My reading of the juvenile mind, is that to lose a cell phone would be just horrible.

Moreover, the hassle and embarrassment for the parents might be sufficient to get them seriously involved.

If none of the above worked we could up the ante, and add community service as punishment, say, for example, working to help the homeless.
 
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Gary O' said:
I totally concur with addressing the whys


The cyber bullies?
Man, I don't know
Are kids alone in handling them?
Can they be educated on how to cope, defuse, ignore?
Seems less spendy than arrests, trials, incarceration...seems
Click to expand...

Maybe required courses in anger and frustration management starting very early, and maybe something like "Reality 101" as well. We really need to address the "you're always entitled to get your way" and "life should always be fair" thinking, as well as the idea that hate and violence are acceptable if someone hurts your feelings.
 
All good ideas, and probably a big improvement over doing what we do now, which is pretty much nothing except a lot of hand-wringing.
 
Once again I see no response to my comments about the Swiss and how guns are a big thing in their society but none of the nasty notoriety of the US ways in their way of living. Our problems seem to be in how we allow folks to live and how they think about killing friends or neighbors. The US does have a problem and guns is not the reason at all.

Is anyone in the US looking at the Swiss ways and trying to understand where they are different from the US. Maybe some small way of teaching about guns and hatred. They sure do not go together.

Maybe for the Swiss other folks are not subject to being killed until that person has been described as 'bad' by their leaders. I don't know but am sure it is not the guns alone that is the problem. Until we get our minds off the guns we will never find the difference that makes guns OK in Switzerland.

So far, both sides of our government agree that it is not the guns. Our Constitution and laws all support that to be true.
 
I have been giving this subject a great deal of thought. It seems to me that children can be such cruel little savages.
For whatever reason, some kids take a delight in cruelty. Not just boys, but girls also. They pick on each other. Boys will punch and call each other "queers". Girls on the other hand, are less likely to punch (though some do), but they make fun of the fat girl, or because the other girl does not dress according to the latest fashion or for some reason known only to females.

We all are aware that the rate of suicide amongst teens is sky-rocketing. I think that the primary reason is because the kid who commits suicide simply can't take it any more. Some of us were unmercifully bullied in school. I sure as hell know I was. One big kid put me in the hospital twice.

I believe that the kid who snaps and kills his class-mates is doing so because he is seeking vengeance on his tormentors.

I therefore, suggest that schools adopt a zero tolerance policy on bullying AND that the school hold classes to teach civilized behavior.

Again, this is not the end-all, be-all, of the slaughter but it would be a good start.
 
We cannot stop this anymore than we can stop traffic deaths. More high school kids have been shot to death this years than all of our military all over the world. I want to hear from parents of young teens about their anxieties now watching their kids go to school. It has to wear on them.
 
Camper6 said:
You are correct but there are versions of shotguns with shortened barrels that are legal. I think sawed off shotguns are illegal.

Excerpt:
Pagourtzis used firearms owned by his father and initially planned to kill himself in the bloody rampage but ultimately lost his nerve and surrendered, Texas Gov. Greg Abbott said.
Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas) said the shotgun was of the ultra-deadly sawed-off variety and that investigators were trying to determine whether the shortened barrel was legal.
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I know all about the different barrel lengths and the legality; I live in Texas not 40 miles from where the shooting occurred. However, your question was "How do we KNOW A SAWED-OFF WAS USED?", and I answered.

The End.
 
Traveler said:
I have been giving this subject a great deal of thought. It seems to me that children can be such cruel little savages.
For whatever reason, some kids take a delight in cruelty. Not just boys, but girls also. They pick on each other. Boys will punch and call each other "queers". Girls on the other hand, are less likely to punch (though some do), but they make fun of the fat girl, or because the other girl does not dress according to the latest fashion or for some reason known only to females.

We all are aware that the rate of suicide amongst teens is sky-rocketing. I think that the primary reason is because the kid who commits suicide simply can't take it any more. Some of us were unmercifully bullied in school. I sure as hell know I was. One big kid put me in the hospital twice.

I believe that the kid who snaps and kills his class-mates is doing so because he is seeking vengeance on his tormentors.

I therefore, suggest that schools adopt a zero tolerance policy on bullying AND that the school hold classes to teach civilized behavior.

Again, this is not the end-all, be-all, of the slaughter but it would be a good start.
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I agree that it would be a good start.

I also think that the adults need to be part of this and set a better example for kids to follow.

We have similar behaviors on SF, in some threads, and we are definitely old enough to know better.
 

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