Dear God, another school shooting?

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There have been some interesting inputs on this thread. Real happy to see that there are some not willing to lay all the blame on guns.

Did any of you folks take a look and the Swiss culture where guns are pretty much for all to see and have with them in their lives with little or no tragic events due to the guns?

Did any of you folks read the link I put up that tells of the Swiss ways of building bomb shelters and airports.

I was very impressed by their determination for self defense. The Swiss have had this selfdefense idea since way back in horses and bows and arrows. They have done well with their ideas.

Hopefully the US will one day get our own ideas of right and wrong straightened out again. It is not the guns at all, it is our own mind sets that need adjusted.
 
Most of us don't think the blame can be laid entirely on the doorstep of the types and numbers of guns that Americans own, but they sure don't help the situation. This is a multi-layered problem that will take a multi-layered solution.
 

This problem of why school shootings happen so often in America is a Gordian Knot of problems. It can be solved, but it is going to take a national effort.

Think about this. No normal kid, (whatever that means) suddenly wakes up one day and decides to kill. It is a long process of building anger.
For the life of me, I can't imagine how some parents don't see, or refuse to see, serious trouble brewing.
 
You are right and that is why I keep pushing for something more than these anti gun activities. The Swiss are good examples of how to live with guns and not have problems. That is why I suggest we spend some time looking at the Swiss ways and lifting some ideas from them.

One idea, that I know some will object to, is cleaning up our education system. There is no need to be teaching our kids to paint 'hate slogans' and have them walk out of class and march. Anti anything is trampling on others ideas and all ideas are considered to be open for debate. In the US there is no government agency that can just do as they wish. All changes to our ways of life must go through proper channels and be approved first.

Teaching hate is in itself a bad idea. Tolerance is a much better way to go.
 
BobF said:
There have been some interesting inputs on this thread. Real happy to see that there are some not willing to lay all the blame on guns.

Did any of you folks take a look and the Swiss culture where guns are pretty much for all to see and have with them in their lives with little or no tragic events due to the guns?

Did any of you folks read the link I put up that tells of the Swiss ways of building bomb shelters and airports.

I was very impressed by their determination for self defense. The Swiss have had this selfdefense idea since way back in horses and bows and arrows. They have done well with their ideas.

Hopefully the US will one day get our own ideas of right and wrong straightened out again. It is not the guns at all, it is our own mind sets that need adjusted.
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My niece lives in Switzerland. Bob. You don't have a clue. It's military that get to keep guns in Switzerland otherwise it's very difficult to get a firearm like a handgun.

Canada has a similar culture to the United States. Why doesn't the same problem show up in Canada.

And in Japan? Gun crime is rare.

Bob you cannot leave the guns out of the picture and expect different results.

The easy access to guns in the United States is a problem.
 
It will do no good to try to abolish the 2nd Amendment to the Bill of rights.

It says, in plain English, "The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed".

The anti gun people refuse to look at what is causing the boys to become so angry in the first place. Why ? Does an examination of the uninvolved parent (s) threaten some sacred belief ?
 
The easy access to guns in the United States is a problem.
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Exactly, Camper. There are angry people, seriously disturbed people, uninvolved parents, idiot-level parents who don't know how to keep their own kids out of danger, macho showoffs, hotheads without a single brain in their heads, etc. all over the world. This country does not have a monopoly on any of those things. But after you factor out all those other things, what's the one thing that is different here? Right, the easy access to guns!

And for those who use "hunting" as their excuse for keeping all those guns lying around, I'd like to know where their sacred second amendment fits in. Do they "bear arms" against the local deer population?

Amendments can and should be abolished when they are clearly causing more harm than good. Times change, and everything that was mandated in the old days is not always still a good idea. What does any of this have to do with the well-regulated militia of Colonial times?
 
Sunny said:
Exactly, Camper. There are angry people, seriously disturbed people, uninvolved parents, idiot-level parents who don't know how to keep their own kids out of danger, macho showoffs, hotheads without a single brain in their heads, etc. all over the world. This country does not have a monopoly on any of those things. But after you factor out all those other things, what's the one thing that is different here? Right, the easy access to guns!

And for those who use "hunting" as their excuse for keeping all those guns lying around, I'd like to know where their sacred second amendment fits in. Do they "bear arms" against the local deer population?

Amendments can and should be abolished when they are clearly causing more harm than good. Times change, and everything that was mandated in the old days is not always still a good idea. What does any of this have to do with the well-regulated militia of Colonial times?
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Letting go of ANY of your rights is a very slippery slope.
 
One reason that no amendments have been written and processed is because not enough of our government, no matter what party's involved, has been convinced that guns are the problem.

Again, the Swiss have no crazies running around and shooting others. They have gun clubs and national shootouts during the year. The Swiss do not have the nutty self important nonsense we have taught in our schools and colleges. They should be teaching how to get along with each other and not how to stop others from doing what they are doing. Street mobs and hatred are not good things to push by ourn education systems.
 
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Sunny said:
Exactly, Camper. There are angry people, seriously disturbed people, uninvolved parents, idiot-level parents who don't know how to keep their own kids out of danger, macho showoffs, hotheads without a single brain in their heads, etc. all over the world. This country does not have a monopoly on any of those things. But after you factor out all those other things, what's the one thing that is different here? Right, the easy access to guns!

And for those who use "hunting" as their excuse for keeping all those guns lying around, I'd like to know where their sacred second amendment fits in. Do they "bear arms" against the local deer population?

Amendments can and should be abolished when they are clearly causing more harm than good. Times change, and everything that was mandated in the old days is not always still a good idea. What does any of this have to do with the well-regulated militia of Colonial times?
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We bear arms against criminals who are always going to have guns, no matter what the law says. Without guns we are easy prey. Any discussion of banning guns is a waste of time because it is never, ever going to happen. Not today, not tomorrow, not in 100 years. Never !

In most of Africa, the AK-47 is easier and cheaper to get than a used car. Yet we do not see teens in those countries killing their fellow students. The problem of killing in our schools is parents that are totally uninvolved, coupled with a host of other causes.
 
Well phrased Traveler. There was one "kid killer" who felt bullied. As kids we all felt bullied but we were taught to deal with it. But now bullying has become a large political issue to the point were kids feel they do not have to deal with it - someone else is responsible to protect them. It is the "snowflake" syndrome where kids have been raised to never have to deal with any disappointment so when one comes along, their reaction may be violent.
 
Traveler said:
We bear arms against criminals who are always going to have guns, no matter what the law says. Without guns we are easy prey. Any discussion of banning guns is a waste of time because it is never, ever going to happen. Not today, not tomorrow, not in 100 years. Never !

In most of Africa, the AK-47 is easier and cheaper to get than a used car. Yet we do not see teens in those countries killing their fellow students. The problem of killing in our schools is parents that are totally uninvolved, coupled with a host of other causes.
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I was going to reply to this post earlier, but didn't have time; in the meantime, someone did reply, but while I don't know the person he and I have entirely different ways of looking at what you said. My POV on it:

'parents that are totally uninvolved'- you're certainly right about that. And from what I've seen in recent years, it has nothing to do with the so-called snowflake syndrome, but parents who either 'aren't there, or don't care.'
I'm sure plenty of individuals will hiss&spit at me for this, but I don't understand why anyone has kids in the first place if they fully intend to hand all of the responsibilities of child-raising to others.
Kids of all ages have everyday lives, interests, questions, problems, etc.- who do they take these things to: teachers, coaches, counselors, virtually anyone and everyone except their own parents/families. or else they try to cope with everything on their own.
 
C'est Moi said:
No one will ever convince me that guns are the problem. Most of us were raised in homes where guns were commonplace and yet managed to not massacre anyone. The core of the problem is societal and the disintegration of family. People are so angry... just look at all the road rage now. It's terrifying to drive anywhere.

I don't know how we will fix this mess.
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I agree. It seems many people fly into a rage at the drop of a hat and are just looking for a reason to be offended. I also grew up with guns in the house, guns at relatives' houses, guns in the homes of friends' parents. I never felt the need to massacre anybody, either, nor did any of my friends, relatives or acquaintances, even though guns were in easy reach.

The problem goes way beyond just the fact that guns are there.
 
ray188 said:
Well phrased Traveler. There was one "kid killer" who felt bullied. As kids we all felt bullied but we were taught to deal with it. But now bullying has become a large political issue to the point were kids feel they do not have to deal with it - someone else is responsible to protect them. It is the "snowflake" syndrome where kids have been raised to never have to deal with any disappointment so when one comes along, their reaction may be violent.
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Strongly agree. They are not being taught how to deal with anger, disappointment or frustration in a non-violent way.
 
Traveler said:
We bear arms against criminals who are always going to have guns, no matter what the law says. Without guns we are easy prey. Any discussion of banning guns is a waste of time because it is never, ever going to happen. Not today, not tomorrow, not in 100 years. Never !

In most of Africa, the AK-47 is easier and cheaper to get than a used car. Yet we do not see teens in those countries killing their fellow students. The problem of killing in our schools is parents that are totally uninvolved, coupled with a host of other causes.
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Any excuse but the guns in the U.S. huh? How you can leave that out of the equation is simply beyond me.

The U.S. should be the leader in the field instead of the follower.

Yes you are entitled to having a weapon for protection but do you need an AK-47 or an AR-15? These weapons were designed for the battlefield not for civilians to protect themselves against what? A herd of Bison?
 
BobF said:
One reason that no amendments have been written and processed is because non enough of our government, no matter what party 8s involved, has been convinced that guns are the problem.

Perhaps because the gun lobby has them in their pocket?

Again, the Swiss have no crazies running around and shooting others. They have gun clubs and national shootouts during the year. The Swiss do not have the nutty self important nonsense we have taught in our schools and colleges. They should be teaching how to get along with each other and not how to stop others from doing what they are doing. Street mobs and hatred are not good things to push by ourn education systems.
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Gun clubs are regulated in Switzerland and in Canada as well. Very strict gun laws.

Americans could not stand to have their guns regulated.
 
Camper6 said:
You cannot teach anger management. Well you can but it won't stick.
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I strongly disagree. If you address these issues as soon as they manifest themselves, the recidivism rate is low. I have had nine year olds in my office learning skill sets on how to deal with negative emotions including anger. They progressed very well.
 
Camper6 said:
Any excuse but the guns in the U.S. huh? How you can leave that out of the equation is simply beyond me.

The U.S. should be the leader in the field instead of the follower.

Yes you are entitled to having a weapon for protection but do you need an AK-47 or an AR-15? These weapons were designed for the battlefield not for civilians to protect themselves against what? A herd of Bison?
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How about the leftist lunatic fringe ? Quite frankly they scare to hell out of me. The very first thing any dictatorship does is take guns away from the people. Once that is done, there is nothing left to stop then from doing whatever they will. Does Ruby Ridge or Waco ring any bells ?
 
From what I understand, at least two school shootings were perpetrated by young males identifying with the Incel Movement whose members include those who glorify rape, forcible confinement, and even fantasies of murdering women. Scary stuff, and

certainly far from left wing. Banned from Reddit, this group primarily consists of teens and twenties males with severe social maladjustment issues who, like Elliot Rodger, expect women to fall into their laps without any effort on their part. Here in Canada, the man who drove his van into Toronto pedestrians idolized Elliot Rodger.
 

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