Definitions of Faith.

Knight said:
I was looking at the priest as promoting faith. A faith that what Putin was doing was sanctioned by that omnipotent supernatural being that has a plan for everyone.

If true that churches support war then faith that omnipotent supernatural being that has a plan for everyone surely is anti moral.

If a dictionary definition of faith is what was anticipated I could have copied that. I took this thread as wanting to look at how faith is used to justify actions by mankind.
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I view churches as businesses and not as representatives of faith. A person's belief, or lack thereof, is between themselves and the infinite. Just IMHO. :unsure:
 
Capt Lightning said:
The parable about the man and the grain has nothing to do with faith. It is simply 'planning for the future'. If he had not saved but went on to live in poverty, you might have said that he failed. Life is unpredictable and many of the decisions that we make are not based on faith, but on the information that we have to hand.
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I do believe strongly in common sense which was why how Maureen O'Hara described faith in the movie was so meaningful to me personally.

In life I've seen some people prepare and do all the "right" things and it doesn't work out well or as they planned it. This makes me think. :unsure:
 
For me faith is like love. I can't see it or prove it, but I've felt it so I know it's true.

I believe that Jesus is the son of God so that makes me a Christian. I hope people don't look at me, with all my faults, and say that I'm a hypocrite, neither do I look at other Christians and judge them. We are only saying we believe in Christ, not that we are just like him.
 
Warrigal said:
Somehow I am now thinking about Schrodinger's cat. Was the cat alive or dead?
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I'm a physicist by training (well 55 years ago anyway). This whole Schrodinger's cat hypothesis is just plain stupid! Suppose the situation were reversed--the human Schrodinger gets locked in the box instead of the cat; the cat gets hungry and knows (having observed) that if it presses a lever on the box that it will open up; being a curious feline, she wonders if Schrodinger is alive so that he may feed her or dead so that she will be out of luck; so obviously he is both alive and dead at the same time. My favorite sports team both won and lost the game yesterday, since I have not yet read the sports page. Absence of knowledge proves nothing.
 
raybar said:
Anyone who is (or wants to be) confused about Schrödinger's cat should watch this video by Sabine Hossenfelder:

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But if we turn this around and make it subjective, hence beyond the pale of quantum physics because one must be objective when so dealing, does it really matter to whoever or whatever is dead?
 
spectratg said:
I'm a physicist by training (well 55 years ago anyway). This whole Schrodinger's cat hypothesis is just plain stupid! Suppose the situation were reversed--the human Schrodinger gets locked in the box instead of the cat; the cat gets hungry and knows (having observed) that if it presses a lever on the box that it will open up; being a curious feline, she wonders if Schrodinger is alive so that he may feed her or dead so that she will be out of luck; so obviously he is both alive and dead at the same time. My favorite sports team both won and lost the game yesterday, since I have not yet read the sports page. Absence of knowledge proves nothing.
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I know a bit of physics too. And chemistry. What do you think about KIekule's dream of the dancing benzene ring structure? This too is a bit la la but it is helpful in understanding a bond structure where all six bonds are equivalent and seemingly somewhere between single and double. Stupid, or a flash of genius?
 
I once had a neighbor, a nice man, highly educated (oral surgeon) with a nice family. They were members of a far-out religious sect, almost a cult. They were always running events, inviting people to their home to see videos about their religion, and trying to sell a book written by the leader of their group. Once I met him on a walk and we walked together for a while, and the conversation turned to religion. I told him I was an atheist, and asked how an educated man such as him could believe all the hocus pocus. His answer: "Well, that's where faith comes in."

I restrained myself, and we remained friends. (Though I did not buy the book.)
 
Warrigal said:
I know a bit of physics too. And chemistry. What do you think about KIekule's dream of the dancing benzene ring structure? This too is a bit la la but it is helpful in understanding a bond structure where all six bonds are equivalent and seemingly somewhere between single and double. Stupid, or a flash of genius?
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Sorry I am not familiar with that one (or if I ever was, I have long since forgotten it :unsure: )
 
chic said:
I view churches as businesses and not as representatives of faith. A person's belief, or lack thereof, is between themselves and the infinite. Just IMHO. :unsure:
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Same me. I think faith and religion is an individual thing....based upon trying to live an honest and responsible life...in the hope that the "soul" will live on to a better life.

Many Churches, on the other hand, put their priority on the tithes, offerings, and the collection plate....and will preach whatever it takes to increase those amounts....IMO.
 
I was born and raised Catholic. I went to Catholic school and was taught by Nuns. I believe in God and I pray every day. However, I don't go to Church anymore. I look Church as an institution and nothing more.
 
spectratg said:
Sorry I am not familiar with that one (or if I ever was, I have long since forgotten it :unsure: )
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Like many of these tales it might be apocryphal, just like the story of Archimedes running through the streets of Athens shouting "Eureka, I have it" after an insight while at the baths.

I guess my point would be that everything we think we know about the material universe, especially at the sub atomic level, is a mental construct invented to allow us to understand something in terms that make sense to us. The something is real though, not a product of our imaginations.

Apply that thinking to religious concepts, especially the nature of God. We are told that God is unknowable, a mystery beyond human understanding. This is unsatisfactory to humankind and since ancient times humans have looked around at the natural and celestial world hoping to discern the nature of the divine. We have discarded many early ideas just as we discarded the four elements - fire, earth, wind and water as the chief components of all matter when a better explanation came along. Dalton's concept of atoms and molecules was an important advance but not the whole story. Atoms may not be round balls with defined radius but we still teach this concept to children as a starting point.

So it is with religious concepts. What we learn in Sunday School is a beginning, not the end of religious study. I've read a lot of the OT stories and one in particular was enough to turn me away from religion. It offended my sense of justice and I could not believe any longer that God was just. I was 13 years old and had absolutely no idea of the historical times, let alone that this story, like the story of the Greeks attacking Troy, might be an apocryphal telling of something that may (or may not) have had historical reality.

I'm starting to waffle so I'll cut to the chase. God may or may not exist, just as Schrodinger's cat may or may not be alive, but before we decide one way or the other it is necessary to look for ourselves. By that I do not mean do a Google search. IMO the place where we need to look for spiritual answers in within ourselves.
 
Sunny said:
I once had a neighbor, a nice man, highly educated (oral surgeon) with a nice family. They were members of a far-out religious sect, almost a cult. They were always running events, inviting people to their home to see videos about their religion, and trying to sell a book written by the leader of their group. Once I met him on a walk and we walked together for a while, and the conversation turned to religion. I told him I was an atheist, and asked how an educated man such as him could believe all the hocus pocus. His answer: "Well, that's where faith comes in."
I restrained myself, and we remained friends. (Though I did not buy the book.)
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If I asked you the questions, "Do you seek to do good in the world"? or "Do you seek to do good in the world, but only if it serves your own interests to do so"?

,....., and you were to affirm the first of those two options is the one you'd say most strongly represents a true reelection of your intentions, and character, then I'd suggest this could amount to the basis of a kind of religion! :)
 
To be classed as a religion there are certain essential characteristics.
This list is not necessarily definitive but it is close to the mark

EIGHT ELEMENTS OF RELIGIONS

1. BELIEF SYSTEM or WORLDVIEW: Many beliefs that fit together in a system to make sense of the universe and our place in it.

2. COMMUNITY: The belief system is shared, and its ideals are practiced by a group.

3. CENTRAL STORIES/MYTHS: Stories that help explain the beliefs of a group; these are told over and over again and sometimes performed by members of the group. They may or may not be factual.

4. RITUALS: Beliefs are explained, taught, and made real through ceremonies.

5. ETHICS: Rules about how to behave; these rules are often thought to have come from a deity or supernatural place, but they might also be seen as guidelines created by the group over time.

6. CHARACTERISTIC EMOTIONAL EXPERIENCES: Most religions share emotions such as awe, mystery, guilt, joy, devotion, conversion, inner peace, etc.

7. MATERIAL EXPRESSION: Religions use things to perform rituals or to express or represent beliefs, such as: statues, paintings, music, flowers, incense, clothes, architecture, and specific sacred locations.

8. SACREDNESS: Religions see some things as sacred and some not sacred (or profane). Some objects, actions, people and places may share in the sacredness or express it.
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Faith however can be personal, individual and unique.
 

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