Do we really “trust in God”?

Personally, I have gotten through many disasters, mental and physical to myself and others, including sorrows, deaths, illnesses, and dangers, through belief in my personal guardian angel as assigned to me by God above, and as taught to me by nuns way back when I was a schoolgirl in a Catholic Convent, which has held me always in good stead, leaving me with the feeling that I never stood alone.

When I lived in Germany in the 60s and was pregnant for the first time, I felt I stood alone with no friends, no blood relations, and only a smattering of the language to assist me. I felt totally isolated and when I was told that at seven months my baby would die at birth, I almost despaired, but, through it all with the help of my guardian angel--a messenger from God--I totally immersed myself in the remaining time I had with my baby girl, talking to her, soothing her, singing to her, reading her poetry, etc., as she jumped and bumped and her little heart was still beating. Consequently, at nine months, when she died at birth, I was resigned to it that it was God's will and meant to be, because, as it turned out, she was a Thalidomide baby and would not have lived a full life.

God is the perfect judge, is always willing to listen, and will take into account everything and all problems that you have.
Ruby, I am so very sorry about the loss of your daughter, but you allowed God to walk the journey with you and help you understand and heal💕
 

Warrigal

SF VIP
I don't think so, Warrigal. Is it good?
He is an evolutionary biologist specialising from memory (?) in invertebrates. That is not a criticism. Charles Darwin was a keen observer of worms.

His theory suggests that the driving force of evolution is not the organism as a whole but the gene. It is a long time since I read it so I will use this Wiki quotation to provide a brief explanation.

Selfish genetic elements (historically also referred to as selfish genes, ultra-selfish genes, selfish DNA, parasitic DNA and genomic outlaws) are genetic segments that can enhance their own transmission at the expense of other genes in the genome, even if this has no positive or a net negative effect on organismal fitness. Genomes have traditionally been viewed as cohesive units, with genes acting together to improve the fitness of the organism. However, when genes have some control over their own transmission, the rules can change, and so just like all social groups, genomes are vulnerable to selfish behaviour by their parts.

Early observations of selfish genetic elements were made almost a century ago, but the topic did not get widespread attention until several decades later. Inspired by the gene-centred views of evolution popularized by George Williams and Richard Dawkins, two papers were published back-to-back in Nature in 1980 – by Leslie Orgel and Francis Crick[9] and by Ford Doolittle and Carmen Sapienza[ – introducing the concept of selfish genetic elements (at the time called "selfish DNA") to the wider scientific community. Both papers emphasized that genes can spread in a population regardless of their effect on organismal fitness as long as they have a transmission advantage.

Selfish genetic elements have now been described in most groups of organisms, and they demonstrate a remarkable diversity in the ways by which they promote their own transmission. Though long dismissed as genetic curiosities, with little relevance for evolution, they are now recognized to affect a wide swath of biological processes, ranging from genome size and architecture to speciation.

At the time i was sceptical about this proposition but I confess that I have only rudimentary understanding of biological processes. The idea is not discussed much today. I don't think it is all that controversial or we would certainly be hearing a lot more about it today.

If you are interested in reading The Selfish Gene allow me to recommend another eminent biologist who presents a different viewpoint. He is Australian Prof. Charles Birch. He wrote a book titled On Purpose that suggests that evolution does not seem to be a matter of pure chance. Again, it is a very long time since I read this one too. Birch includes philosophical and theological concepts in his discussion. His work needs to be read thoughtfully and it does require a solid background in various branches of science.

He is not a great fan of scientific reductionism, arguing for a more holistic view point. In this he is the direct opposite of Dawkins. One viewpoint allows for the possibility of guided evolution, the other does not.

This review is from the New Scientist

16 February 1991
By John Habgood
On Purpose by Charles Birch, New South Wales University Press,

‘Fallacies of the modern world view have to do with the conception of
the world as substance or machinery, mistaking abstractions for reality,
confusing origins and truth, failing to attribute feeling to things that
feel, recognising ethics as exclusively anthropocentric, thinking a posteriori,
objectifying facts as separated from values, reducing the complex to the
simple and dividing knowledge into distinct disciplines that produce experts
who are often wrong.’

In their place, Charles Birch would like a philosophy and religion ‘that
makes room for purpose as an effective casual agent in the universe’. This
would entail a view of nature as organic and ecological, rather than mechanistic;
an interpretation of lower forms of organisation in terms of higher ones,
as well as vice versa; an acknowledgment of sentience much further down
the organisational ladder than is at present commonly imagined; a biocentric
ethic; and a holistic approach to knowledge.

Strong stuff. It amounts to a call for a revolution in ways of thinking
to break out of the constraints that a falsely mechanistic interpretation
of science has imposed on ourselves and our world. As a good biologist,
Birch begins with life, with what we directly know of feeling, living, purposing
and choosing. His post-Cartesian starting point is: ‘I feel, therefore I
am.’
Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg12917566-200-review-gods-aims/#ixzz6jR0WNcVr
 

Ruby Rose

Member
I guess I'll save my input for the new thread, then?
A new thread is good!
He is an evolutionary biologist specialising from memory (?) in invertebrates. That is not a criticism. Charles Darwin was a keen observer of worms.

His theory suggests that the driving force of evolution is not the organism as a whole but the gene. It is a long time since I read it so I will use this Wiki quotation to provide a brief explanation.



At the time i was sceptical about this proposition but I confess that I have only rudimentary understanding of biological processes. The idea is not discussed much today. I don't think it is all that controversial or we would certainly be hearing a lot more about it today.

If you are interested in reading The Selfish Gene allow me to recommend another eminent biologist who presents a different viewpoint. He is Australian Prof. Charles Birch. He wrote a book titled On Purpose that suggests that evolution does not seem to be a matter of pure chance. Again, it is a very long time since I read this one too. Birch includes philosophical and theological concepts in his discussion. His work needs to be read thoughtfully and it does require a solid background in various branches of science.

He is not a great fan of scientific reductionism, arguing for a more holistic view point. In this he is the direct opposite of Dawkins. One viewpoint allows for the possibility of guided evolution, the other does not.

This review is from the New Scientist
No thank you, please, it only makes me sneeze; this is not my forté. Thank you, though.
 

Warrigal

SF VIP
I don't think so, Warrigal. Is it good?
He is an evolutionary biologist specialising from memory (?) in invertebrates. That is not a criticism. Charles Darwin was a keen observer of worms.

His theory suggests that the driving force of evolution is not the organism as a whole but the gene. It is a long time since I read it so I will use this Wiki quotation to provide a brief explanation.

Selfish genetic elements (historically also referred to as selfish genes, ultra-selfish genes, selfish DNA, parasitic DNA and genomic outlaws) are genetic segments that can enhance their own transmission at the expense of other genes in the genome, even if this has no positive or a net negative effect on organismal fitness. Genomes have traditionally been viewed as cohesive units, with genes acting together to improve the fitness of the organism. However, when genes have some control over their own transmission, the rules can change, and so just like all social groups, genomes are vulnerable to selfish behaviour by their parts.

Early observations of selfish genetic elements were made almost a century ago, but the topic did not get widespread attention until several decades later. Inspired by the gene-centred views of evolution popularized by George Williams and Richard Dawkins, two papers were published back-to-back in Nature in 1980 – by Leslie Orgel and Francis Crick[9] and by Ford Doolittle and Carmen Sapienza[ – introducing the concept of selfish genetic elements (at the time called "selfish DNA") to the wider scientific community. Both papers emphasized that genes can spread in a population regardless of their effect on organismal fitness as long as they have a transmission advantage.

Selfish genetic elements have now been described in most groups of organisms, and they demonstrate a remarkable diversity in the ways by which they promote their own transmission. Though long dismissed as genetic curiosities, with little relevance for evolution, they are now recognized to affect a wide swath of biological processes, ranging from genome size and architecture to speciation.

At the time i was sceptical about this proposition but I confess that I have only rudimentary understanding of biological processes. The idea is not discussed much today. I don't think it is all that controversial or we would certainly be hearing a lot more about it today.

If you are interested in reading The Selfish Gene allow me to recommend another eminent biologist who presents a different viewpoint. He is Australian Prof. Charles Birch. He wrote a book titled On Purpose that suggests that evolution does not seem to be a matter of pure chance. Again, it is a very long time since I read this one too. Birch includes philosophical and theological concepts in his discussion. His work needs to be read thoughtfully and it does require a solid background in various branches of science.

He is not a great fan of scientific reductionism, arguing for a more holistic view point. In this he is the direct opposite of Dawkins. One viewpoint allows for the possibility of guided evolution, the other does not.

This review is from the New Scientist

16 February 1991
By John Habgood
On Purpose by Charles Birch, New South Wales University Press,

‘Fallacies of the modern world view have to do with the conception of
the world as substance or machinery, mistaking abstractions for reality,
confusing origins and truth, failing to attribute feeling to things that
feel, recognising ethics as exclusively anthropocentric, thinking a posteriori,
objectifying facts as separated from values, reducing the complex to the
simple and dividing knowledge into distinct disciplines that produce experts
who are often wrong.’

In their place, Charles Birch would like a philosophy and religion ‘that
makes room for purpose as an effective casual agent in the universe’. This
would entail a view of nature as organic and ecological, rather than mechanistic;
an interpretation of lower forms of organisation in terms of higher ones,
as well as vice versa; an acknowledgment of sentience much further down
the organisational ladder than is at present commonly imagined; a biocentric
ethic; and a holistic approach to knowledge.

Strong stuff. It amounts to a call for a revolution in ways of thinking
to break out of the constraints that a falsely mechanistic interpretation
of science has imposed on ourselves and our world. As a good biologist,
Birch begins with life, with what we directly know of feeling, living, purposing
and choosing. His post-Cartesian starting point is: ‘I feel, therefore I
am.’
Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg12917566-200-review-gods-aims/#ixzz6jR0WNcVr

A new thread is good!

No thank you, please, it only makes me sneeze; this is not my forté. Thank you, though.
:LOL: O dear, Rose. This post was meant for Sunny and I have extended it to include another author she might find interesting but neither of them are of interest to everyone. Life's too short to wade through books that have no appeal.
 

charry

Senior Member
Location
UK
I just want to know how people ever beLieve in god....?
Obviously it’s been brainwashed into them from a young age......What evidence have we got, ?
I believe there is a force up there that controls our lives.....
But it’s not God ...
 

Aneeda72

Well-known Member
I just want to know how people ever beLieve in god....?
Obviously it’s been brainwashed into them from a young age......What evidence have we got, ?
I believe there is a force up there that controls our lives.....
But it’s not God ...
Well, the name God is just a name, like the name rose for a rose is just a name, like the phrase “force up there“ is just a phrase. I believe we control our lives which is why we have free will and why we are free to muck our lives up, again and again.

I am sure if God or “a force up there” controlled my life, they would have done a much better job than I have. Otherwise, they are far more incompetent than I am, and no one ”up there” could be that stupid.
 
I just want to know how people ever beLieve in god....?
Obviously it’s been brainwashed into them from a young age......What evidence have we got, ?
I believe there is a force up there that controls our lives.....
But it’s not God ...
charry, believing in God is a choice I guess. No one can prove there ISN’T a God either. So either way, atheists and Christens alike will all find out someday
 

Mr. Ed

Member
Location
Cortland NY
May I ask how we know we are off our path?
I’ve often heard that God tosses small pebbles at us to grab our attention if we are off our path. If we aren’t paying attention, bigger stones are thrown. Then boulders.

Oddly enough I spent most of my life journaling, mediating, going for long longs and reading every spiritual book I could find. It gave me such comfort and joy.

Now I have this intense fear that I can’t seem to let go of . Having mental disorders only makes it worse. I fully understand that what we think about we create or become but does God take this into consideration OR do we just hand all our fears over to him/her?

I’m wondering if God takes mental disorder and or dementia into consideration

Do you fear retribution or punishment for past deeds? Are you dealing with trauma? Do you forgive yourself and others to understand freedom?
 

Keesha

💙
Location
Canada 🇨🇦
Do you fear retribution or punishment for past deeds? Are you dealing with trauma? Do you forgive yourself and others to understand freedom?
Yes. Retribution from a past life. Yes trauma from complex PSTD but the strangest thing is that I can forgive others who have severely wronged me but have a really hard time forgiving myself.
I mentally torture myself and if Gods message is not to harm any of his children, I need to remember that I am one of his children also. Yesterday was a light bulb moment which I hope I never forget. I’ve had a very strange and unusual life . If a stranger ever caught glimpses of my life they might instantly draw conclusions. Not that I care all that much but it’s also something I need to let go of.

So I’m currently working on loving myself as I love others. Forgiving myself as I forgive others and letting anything that doesn’t serve me go. 🥰
 

Warrigal

SF VIP
Yes. Retribution from a past life. Yes trauma from complex PSTD but the strangest thing is that I can forgive others who have severely wronged me but have a really hard time forgiving myself.
I mentally torture myself and if Gods message is not to harm any of his children, I need to remember that I am one of his children also. Yesterday was a light bulb moment which I hope I never forget. I’ve had a very strange and unusual life . If a stranger ever caught glimpses of my life they might instantly draw conclusions. Not that I care all that much but it’s also something I need to let go of.

So I’m currently working on loving myself as I love others. Forgiving myself as I forgive others and letting anything that doesn’t serve me go. 🥰
It is sometimes harder to forgive ourselves than it is to forgive others. I have been in that situation. Try visualisation. Imagine, that like Christian in The Pilgrim's Progress, you are carrying on your back the sins that you now regret but cannot forgive. It is a heavy burden that restricts and limits you going forward. Then choose a text from the gospels that talks of forgiveness. I myself would choose something like this from Matthew's gospel- "Come to Me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me; for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls."

Picture yourself laying down your burden at the feet of Jesus as he says these words and wait for his response. Take your time because this is really a meditative prayer and should not be done in a rush. The result may be very beneficial to you. Blessing and peace be upon you, Keesha. I hope you find a way to forgive yourself.
 

Keesha

💙
Location
Canada 🇨🇦
It is sometimes harder to forgive ourselves than it is to forgive others. I have been in that situation. Try visualisation. Imagine, that like Christian in The Pilgrim's Progress, you are carrying on your back the sins that you now regret but cannot forgive. It is a heavy burden that restricts and limits you going forward. Then choose a text from the gospels that talks of forgiveness. I myself would choose something like this from Matthew's gospel- "Come to Me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me; for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls."

Picture yourself laying down your burden at the feet of Jesus as he says these words and wait for his response. Take your time because this is really a meditative prayer and should not be done in a rush. The result may be very beneficial to you. Blessing and peace be upon you, Keesha. I hope you find a way to forgive yourself.
Thank you very much Warrigal. I most certainly will try it.

I did notice that when I made the decision to hand over my fear to God that my fear subsided a LOT. I was surprised. I am thinking that the fear that was plaguing me and making me miserable from my ‘own’ thinking, IS God’s way of letting me know I’m WAY off track in my thinking. I was trying to figure something out that wasn’t for me to understand.

I hadn’t thought of it until another member ( Ruby Rose ) mentioned that her guardian angel lets her know she’s off track. Once I handed over this huge burden to God ( the universe ) I instantly felt better. In fact, it felt like a warm blanket was put over me. God works in mysterious ways. 🥰
 
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Mr. Ed

Member
Location
Cortland NY
I do not believe people are meant to suffer, perhaps this is why God gave his children, fellow believers freedom from regret by offering a savior, a forgiver, Jesus. Total forgiveness is complete pardon. Why do so many believers ruminate shortcomings over and over again instead of letting go and moving forward. It is as if people want Jesus be crucified time and time again for the same transgression.

I just saying move forward by not repeating the same oh same oh, take a chance on instinct.
 

Keesha

💙
Location
Canada 🇨🇦
Why do so many believers ruminate shortcomings over and over again instead of letting go and moving forward.
Very good point Mr. Ed. I can’t speak for anyone else but rumination is a big part of OCD which is a difficult thing is overcome even on medication. If you have no mental difficulties then this would seem extremely simple and straight forward. You also may not have gone through a lot of suffering at the hands of others either so should feel very blessed.
 
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Lara

Well-known Member
Location
North Carolina
If 'God' gives someone good health, why does he let so many others suffer and die?
There are over 100 reason's why God allows suffering listed in the Bible which would be inappropriate to list in this forum but Josh McDowell has posted a list of 10...

The purpose of this post is not to attempt a theodicy, that is, a defense of why God allows suffering. Many fine books have done this, including the classical book The Problem of Pain, by C.S. Lewis or Why Does God Allow Evil? by Clay Jones. Rather, I simply want to highlight ten ways the Bible addresses suffering.

These answers are not exhaustive, but they provide some biblical perspective for the inquisitive believer and non-believer:​

1. Suffering is the result of mankind’s sin and rebellion against God (Genesis 3). Mankind chose to reject God’s one command, the world became corrupted by sin, and humans have suffered ever since.

2. God’s chosen people (the Hebrews) suffered when they disobeyed the Mosaic Covenant (Deuteronomy 28).

3. People sometimes suffer from the wrong choices of other human beings, even though God uses the resulting suffering for good (Genesis 50:20).

4. Suffering brings faithful believers into deeper understanding and relationship with Him (Job).

5. Believers suffer because of the jealousy and hatred of certain people who reject the Christian faith (Acts 7:54-60).

6. Believers suffer as a testament of faith to others (Hebrews 11).

7. God allows people to suffer so they will turn to Him in repentance and not perish for eternity (Luke 13:1-4).

8. Christians suffer so they can be conformed more closely to the character of Christ (Romans 8:28-30, James 1:2-4).

9. Believers suffer so they can know Christ more fully (Philippians 3:10).

10. To prepare followers of Christ for the glory of Heaven (2 Corinthians 4:17).

Each of these points deserves much more explanation. And each point raises further questions as well. Remember, there is no single answer to suffering...Josh McDowell​

 
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Aneeda72

Well-known Member
I do not believe people are meant to suffer, perhaps this is why God gave his children, fellow believers freedom from regret by offering a savior, a forgiver, Jesus. Total forgiveness is complete pardon. Why do so many believers ruminate shortcomings over and over again instead of letting go and moving forward. It is as if people want Jesus be crucified time and time again for the same transgression.

I just saying move forward by not repeating the same oh same oh, take a chance on instinct.
Jesus does give total forgiveness, unfortunately, we have to wait j til judgement day to find out if we have it.
 

Aneeda72

Well-known Member
Jesus does give total forgiveness, unfortunately, we have to wait j til judgement day to find out if we have it.
This is in answer to @Lara

This thread has really sidetracked as the question was about trust in God. I thought a trust in God thread would be linked in to taking the vaccine or not taking the vaccine. Silly me. Very few people even responded to the subject of the actual thread. I suppose a lot of people are desperate for Sunday school, nothing wrong in that, but not in line with the thread either.

Now we are speaking of why God allows pain and suffering. God is interested in the condition of our souls not the condition of our bodies. When we die whatever after life there is, (yes, if there is one) our SOULS Go.

Our bodies stay on earth, buried or not, and rot unless they are packed full of chemicals, in which case, they dry up like a packet of herbs. In any event, our bodies are useless in the afterlife.

Pain has its uses to our body, as an early warning system of illness.

Individual suffering alerts our souls and makes us aware of the pain, suffering, and tragedies of other people-other souls-it gives us empathy. A lot of people who lack empathy are referred to as soulless. Interesting, isn’t it?

Lara does not say if this list comes from the old or New Testament, in other words before JC or after. In any event, I do not think you can link the pain and suffering of the human race to GOD the father.

You could, however, link the pain and suffering of the human race to Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ, at God’s command, endured the pain and suffering of crucifixion that he might gain empathy towards the pain and suffering of the human race; and he died for sins of the souls of the human race.

Jesus Christ had free will as do all humans. He CHOSE to follow his Father‘s command. He chose to endure and comply with his fate. As we chose to endure and comply with our fate, even though we are unaware as to what it is. As we chose to believe or not believe.

As for list posted by @Lara, I chose to believe it is the words of the writers of the Bible to explain what they could not explain and an effort to control the masses and bend the people to the religious beliefs of the time.
 

Lara

Well-known Member
Location
North Carolina
I do not believe people are meant to suffer, perhaps this is why God gave his children, fellow believers freedom from regret by offering a savior, a forgiver, Jesus. Total forgiveness is complete pardon. Why do so many believers ruminate shortcomings over and over again instead of letting go and moving forward. It is as if people want Jesus be crucified time and time again for the same transgression.

I just saying move forward by not repeating the same oh same oh, take a chance on instinct.

Jesus does give total forgiveness, unfortunately, we have to wait j til judgement day to find out if we have it.
Disclaimer 1: To Aneeda...My post #193 is an answer to Captain Lightening's question. My post here is responding to your post #194. Surprisingly, I didn't see your post #195 before composing this post #196 including the disclaimer below so none of this is directed at your #195 post. This is mostly a response to Mr. Ed. I'm sorry you haven't received a focus on Covid for this thread. I came in late and never knew this was about covid. I just went with your Thread Title, "Do we really Trust in God". Maybe you should have posted it in the Corona-Virus Forum instead of the Hot Topics Forum?

Disclaimer 2: To anyone reading this post....This is my biblical belief...I'm not trying to convert anyone.
You don't have to read it. I'm not in an "organized religion". I'm in a relationship.
Geesh☺️


I mostly agree with @Mr. Ed.
According to the Bible, I don't have to wait for judgement day because I already know I'm forgiven since I believe Jesus paid my suffering already...But I will be there at the judgement seat just like everybody else. And Jesus will be like my "lawyer" in front of God. And God will review my life...all my forgiven wrongs and praiseworthy rights alike. Yet, I have no fear of what happens next for me because He said "believe and you will enter".

Regarding suffering...I do believe, while we are here on earth, we all will suffer, including believers, due to:

(1) Natural consequences from our own poor choices and from repeatedly doing the same wrongs...from which we grow.

(2) Satan and evil but there are many scriptures to claim that we will be protected
...I refer to certain scriptures when evil is around and claim them

(3) God using teachable moments which may include suffering so we can grow to be more like Jesus.
 
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Ruby Rose

Member
Disclaimer 1: To Aneeda...your quote #194 here is for this post. Surprisingly, I didn't see your post #195 before composing this post #196 including the disclaimer below so none of this is directed at your #195 post. This is mostly a response to Mr. Ed. I'm sorry you haven't received a focus on Covid for this thread. I came in late and never knew this was about covid. I just went with your Thread Title, "Do we really Trust in God"

Disclaimer 2: To anyone reading this post....This is my biblical belief...I'm not trying to convert anyone.
You don't have to read it. I'm not in an "organized religion". I'm in a relationship.
Geesh☺️


I mostly agree with @Mr. Ed. According to the Bible, I don't have to wait for judgement day because I already know I'm forgiven since I believe Jesus paid my suffering already...But I will be there at the judgement seat just like everybody else. And Jesus will be like my "lawyer" in front of God. And God will review my life...all my forgiven wrongs and praiseworthy rights alike. Yet, I have no fear of what happens next for me because He said "believe and you will enter".

Regarding suffering...I do believe, while we are here on earth, we all will suffer, including believers, due to:

(1) Natural consequences from our own poor choices and from repeatedly doing the same wrongs...from which we grow.

(2) Satan and evil but there are many scriptures to claim that we will be protected
...I refer to certain scriptures when evil is around and claim them

(3) God using teachable moments which may include suffering so we can grow to be more like Jesus.
I do believe it shall be a lengthy court case for one and all at the end!
 

Aneeda72

Well-known Member
Disclaimer 1: To Aneeda...your quote #194 here is for this post. Surprisingly, I didn't see your post #195 before composing this post #196 including the disclaimer below so none of this is directed at your #195 post. This is mostly a response to Mr. Ed. I'm sorry you haven't received a focus on Covid for this thread. I came in late and never knew this was about covid. I just went with your Thread Title, "Do we really Trust in God"

Disclaimer 2: To anyone reading this post....This is my biblical belief...I'm not trying to convert anyone.
You don't have to read it. I'm not in an "organized religion". I'm in a relationship.
Geesh☺️


I mostly agree with @Mr. Ed. According to the Bible, I don't have to wait for judgement day because I already know I'm forgiven since I believe Jesus paid my suffering already...But I will be there at the judgement seat just like everybody else. And Jesus will be like my "lawyer" in front of God. And God will review my life...all my forgiven wrongs and praiseworthy rights alike. Yet, I have no fear of what happens next for me because He said "believe and you will enter".

Regarding suffering...I do believe, while we are here on earth, we all will suffer, including believers, due to:

(1) Natural consequences from our own poor choices and from repeatedly doing the same wrongs...from which we grow.

(2) Satan and evil but there are many scriptures to claim that we will be protected
...I refer to certain scriptures when evil is around and claim them

(3) God using teachable moments which may include suffering so we can grow to be more like Jesus.
I was responding to the list you posted NOT to you personally. I did not say the thread was about Covid, I said I expected it would be about trusting God and covid as in I don’t need the vaccine cause I trust God to protect me. I am still surprised no one has said that.

I never said you were a religion or that you were not free to believe whatever you want to believe. There is much in the Catholic religion that I disagree with even though I am Catholic. What I do say is the thread went off course.

But post what you want as I also said I have posted off thread on other peoples thread as well. @Lara I had a specific interest and curiosity in mind when I started the thread I suppose I should have been more specific 😂, my bad 🤦🏻‍♀️.
 
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