That won't do if one's real aim is to begin a 2,000 year old war with a built in scapegoat. The Romans were too powerful and influential for that. Didn't take much looking around. Time to polish my horns.
Do we really “trust in God”?
- Thread starter Aneeda72
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Aneeda72
Well-known Member
They did, but people blame the Jewish people which is old school. It’s kind of like if you hire a hit man and the hit man kills the person but the man who hired the hit man is responsible and not the man who did the killing.
Aneeda72
Well-known Member
I don’t even know what you mean. But here is a cloth, polish away.
I once told a story here (not that you should hang on my every word!
) about going to Wyoming in the early sixties & this man & his son found out our family was Jewish and seriously, innocently, and naively asked if he & his young son could touch my head to feel my horns. I was 12 or 13. Medieval art distinguished Jews from Christians this way.I think Both are responsible.They did, but people blame the Jewish people which is old school. It’s kind of like if you hire a hit man and the hit man kills the person but the man who hired the hit man is responsible and not the man who did the killing.
Aneeda72
Well-known Member
Oh gosh thats funny, but not to you, of course. Did you let him try and find the horns? To show you didn’t have any?I once told a story here (not that you should hang on my every word!
My mother is really strange cause I am Catholic and my nephew and his family are Jewish. So whenever we go see them she will lean close and say “you know they are Jewish, right?” As if I will attack them for killing JC,
. He married a Jewish girl and converted as he wasn’t raised any particular religion.And once my mother was in a Catholic hospital, and went to mass, and got really upset and called me cause she got in line for communion and they wouldn’t give it to her. She was greatly upset “why won’t they give me communion?” Cause you are not Catholic. It was a long conversation explaining that communion in a non denomination church was totally different then blessed by a priest communion in a Catholic Church. Course she was still insulted and angry.
People get the stupidest ideals.
Aneeda72
Well-known Member
I know, and the Catholic Church still has not returned many treasures they took into safe keeping during WWII and they refused, for the most part to protect Jewish people, and the Church has many other flaws and has done many other shameful things. I am sure they will continue to do many shameful things as the church is run by human beings, men, for the most part.
God will judge us all by our works, or in plain language, the shit that we do.
Actually, aneeda, it was and is funny to me. The only thing I don't like is the inherent danger ignorant people might be. I remember that yes, I let them feel my head (my family was right there with me!) and they were astonished they found nothing. We did not enlighten them, and they asked for nothing more & left, confused.
Yes, human beings have shown, over and over, that we can't be trusted! As for your last sentence, I would trust god to judge me before another human.
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
Not necessarily. I elect to take Jesus at his word and I have sometimes been bold enough to start a prayer with "Jesus, you said ..." It is my way of expressing trust. I think you can have the same confidence/trust in the promise of forgiveness in this life. I will say though, that to experience forgiveness it is necessary to practise it. The two are inextricably linked.
So, ask "Can I forgive someone who has wronged me in the past?" With me, that person was my grandmother and she had passed. I did eventually find a way to forgive her in my heart with a symbolic gesture of atonement. I made the effort to seek out the grave of one of her sons who was killed in 1942 by the Japanese invaders as they overran our troops stationed in Malaya. When we found it in the Imperial War Cemetery in Singapore I placed a beautiful orchid in his grave and whispered "This is for you, Grandma" and all of my regret for having shunned her fell away instantly. I felt forgiven, Grandma was forgiven and in some sense we were reconciled to each other. I like to think she would have been pleased if I had done it while she was still alive.
If we very fallible human beings are capable of forgiveness, why do we think that a loving God would withhold it? Why do we absorb words about the vengeance of God and doubt the words that speak of love and forgiveness? It really isn't about pie in the sky when we die. It is about living in peace with our neighbours and finding peace within our own selves.
Who doesn't sin and trespass against their neighbour? No-one.
Who needs to be forgiven? Everyone.
"Ask, and you shall receive".
Trust that these words are for all of us.
Why wait for death to seek what we most need for inner peace?
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How about logos, reason, the controlling force of the universe? That is a Greek concept and it led to science. It goes with a concept of morals as a matter of cause and effect and good manners. I think it is beneficial to share an idea of universal truth and something bigger than ourselves, but if we think we know god, we know god not. Wisdom begins with "I don't know".
Kathleen, no one can ever prove a negative. That is no argument for the existence of God at all.
If I say there is a large, purple, polka-dotted people eater in the middle of your living room, and you say no, there isn't, can I say, "Well, prove that there isn't?" Of course not. I would have to prove that there is.
Aneeda72
Well-known Member
You never had a large, purple, polka-dotted people eater in the middle of your living room? I did as a child, was hoping it would eat my parents. No such luck
OK, to get back to the original question, there have been people down through history who trusted in God to save them. Many of them died. Some did not. But trusting in "God," whatever that word means to you, apparently do nothing to change the course of events.
If I were a believer, I would say that God does nothing, one way or another, to help us get what we want. And that applies to life, health, weather conditions, wars, natural disasters, whether we get the job we want, whether a particular person falls in love with us, or even whether our team wins the football game!
"Trusting in God" is meaningless. Stuff happens. Period.
If I were a believer, I would say that God does nothing, one way or another, to help us get what we want. And that applies to life, health, weather conditions, wars, natural disasters, whether we get the job we want, whether a particular person falls in love with us, or even whether our team wins the football game!
"Trusting in God" is meaningless. Stuff happens. Period.
Build a golem and he will do stuff for you:
A golem is a creature formed out of a lifeless substance such as dust or earth that is brought to life by ritual incantations and sequences of Hebrew letters. The golem, brought into being by a human creator, becomes a helper, a companion, or a rescuer of an imperiled Jewish community. wikpedia
A golem is a creature formed out of a lifeless substance such as dust or earth that is brought to life by ritual incantations and sequences of Hebrew letters. The golem, brought into being by a human creator, becomes a helper, a companion, or a rescuer of an imperiled Jewish community. wikpedia
fancicoffee13
Senior Member
- Location
- Texas
If you don't trust in God, even if it is your last resort, you are in BIG trouble! If you trust in HIM you are blessed. Regardless of your choice of belief. That is my personal choice, I will trust in Him and His Word till I go home.
We have a problem with the question about if we believe there is a god. In the US that assumes the Christian definition of God, and for me and Jews, those stories are just stories to make a point. They are not to be taken literally. Actually, at least five of the stories appear to be are translations of Sumerian stories adjusted to fit the theme of one god and this leads some to think these people began in Egypt under a pharaoh who insisted everyone worship one god.
When I was 8, I asked my Sunday School teacher why Catholics and Protestants were separate. She could not give me a satisfactory answer and that lead to learning of all religions and they are all basically the same. Actually, I like the Hindu explanation of why we are not perfect better than the Christian one and I don't see their caste system as different from Western classes, in the days of old, when a person's life was stuck in the position a person was born into and this was seen as God's will.
Joseph Campbell explained how around the world myths share much in common. His notion was God spoke to everyone, and people heard him differently depending on their environment and history. I like that notion, but for me, that is not a god like the Christian god, but is logos. I think the Christian notion of a God that is modeled after humans, is as real as Zeus. Christians have made an incomprehensible god comprehensible and I think that is a mistake.
I say all that because I think we are better off accepting a notion of universal god than when we deny such a possibility, so I ask Christians to allow me and others, their understanding of god and don't make it an either-or choice.
rgp
Well-known Member
- Location
- Milford,OH
Sure I trust in him. I trust that he will bring about yet another catastrophic weather event , or perhaps a school shooting / mass shooting , etc. That will take the lives of hundreds ? thousands ? Many of which will likely be children . Yes indeed he surely does work in wonderous mysterious ways.
Whoops, do you garden? The soil we need for gardening is not lifeless. When soil is lifeless it is infertile and nothing can grow in it. However, our thoughts change and grow and are very important. Things will be as we think they are and a lot of drama can come out of disagreeing.
fancicoffee13
Senior Member
- Location
- Texas
God leaves decisions up to mankind. Mankind chooses to do these things you mention. God could intervene and heal and stop all chaos. But, these bad events make people and animals stronger to be overcomers. If everything was easy, no sickness, etc., we would never have any hurdles to overcome and figure out a way to do it better. Babies have to pick themselves up again and again until they learn how to walk.
fancicoffee13
Senior Member
- Location
- Texas
I gladly read about your choice and explainations. Everyone goes through life making choices, putting them into practice. I like things that work, really work. And I have made my choice and I read His Word daily and choose to pattern my life after His Will. To each his own. In my eyes, Catholics and Protestants both believe in the same God, just different ways of going about it. So, both are blessed. Sorry, that is short and sweet, but I don't want to elaborate on this subject too long.