Do You Believe in an Eternal Hell

[StarSong]

One time on the show The Big Bang Theory, Sheldon and Amy were discussing church and Amy said something that I've always thought about. Sheldon said that his mother made him go to church when he was a kid, and she said (paraphrasing here a little), "I understand the concept of a deity, I just don't understand one that takes attendance." I never understood why church was mandatory when God is supposed to be everywhere. What is the purpose of people meeting in one building once a week?

Or why He needs so much money. Or why Christian preachers who tout the life of a man who lived so simply can unashamedly ensconce themselves in mega mansions, jet around in private planes, and enjoy the lifestyles of kings at the expense of congregants who scrape to pay for their food and medicine.

Hell? Don't believe in it.
Here's the thing. I'm personally capable of far less forgiveness than an all-loving, all-powerful omnipotent being, that's a given. That said, there is nothing, nothing, nothing that my children (or anyone else) could do to me that would make me so thirsty for revenge that I'd punish them for all eternity. Or even turn aside from them for eternity. (Not even Hitler.) If I'm capable of that, how much more forgiving must He be?

Also, I don't even have a clear understanding of how every experience has affected my own life, never mind anyone else's. How much more understanding of the nuances of our experiences combined with our DNA must our Creator be?

Finally, I've never bought into the idea of a "loving" but highly vengeful God who is so insecure about whether or not people properly believe in Him that He would take permanent offense to a slight. Also never understood the point of sacrifices or whipping boys (whether animals or human) that take the punishment for another, somehow wiping clean the slate of the actual transgressors.

All of that said, I believe most of what is attributed to having been said by Jesus Himself (not Paul) are excellent words to live by and worthy of our consideration.

 

[caroln]

Not to change the direction of this thread (which may be a good thing), but I have a question. Has anyone had a dream about seeing God or Jesus? I had a dream once that I was at a banquet and was sitting directly next to the left side of Jesus. He said something to me which I can't remember, but when I woke and for several days afterward, I had this all encompassing feeling of peace. Nothing made me annoyed or impatient and I felt like I was smiling inside all the time. I never forgot that dream. Was Jesus communicating with me?

 

[Lara]

One time on the show The Big Bang Theory, Sheldon and Amy were discussing church and Amy said something that I've always thought about. Sheldon said that his mother made him go to church when he was a kid, and she said (paraphrasing here a little), "I understand the concept of a deity, I just don't understand one that takes attendance." I never understood why church was mandatory when God is supposed to be everywhere. What is the purpose of people meeting in one building once a week?

I missed this @caroln ,church is not mandatory. It's a place God would like us to go so we can fellowship with other Christians and receive the blessing of friendships, family like "brothers and sisters in Christ", helping and supporting one another, and studying the Bible with like-minded people. I haven't attended church in years and I miss what a blessing it is. I'll be looking for one soon.

 

[Aneeda72]

Not to change the direction of this thread (which may be a good thing), but I have a question. Has anyone had a dream about seeing God or Jesus? I had a dream once that I was at a banquet and was sitting directly next to the left side of Jesus. He said something to me which I can't remember, but when I woke and for several days afterward, I had this all encompassing feeling of peace. Nothing made me annoyed or impatient and I felt like I was smiling inside all the time. I never forgot that dream. Was Jesus communicating with me?

No not JC, IMO, But the Holy Spirit or your guardian angel, perhaps. I have felt that all embracing feeling of peace one time when I visited my great grandmother’s grave. As I have read, this is somewhat common for people finding an older relative’s grave for the first time.

But, because of the Trinity, could it have been JC, maybe “everything is possible with God”. As to what he said to you, hmm, “slow down and smell the roses“-perhaps. Only you and JC know if it was HIM, believe what you want or need to believe. As some have said, it can be neither proved or disproved.

 

[Lara]

Not to change the direction of this thread (which may be a good thing), but I have a question. Has anyone had a dream about seeing God or Jesus? I had a dream once that I was at a banquet and was sitting directly next to the left side of Jesus. He said something to me which I can't remember, but when I woke and for several days afterward, I had this all encompassing feeling of peace. Nothing made me annoyed or impatient and I felt like I was smiling inside all the time. I never forgot that dream. Was Jesus communicating with me?

Wow caroln...I believe you were filled with God's Holy Spirit because it is scriptural:

Philippians 6-7 "Don’t worry about anything; instead, pray about everything. Tell God what you need, and thank him for all he has done. And the peace of God, which passes all understanding, shall guard your hearts and minds as you live in Christ Jesus."

 

[Sunny]

My husband, who knows far more about history & religion , than I ever would , says that people first started attending a once a week meeting because the Bible was only written in Hewbrew. The common person would need it translated which was the main reason they met. This then become tradition and later became a time to collect offerings or donations towards the service. Hearing these types of services seemed to help people cope, mentality, physically and spiritually.

Keesha, Hewbrew sounds like a good name for a beer.

 

[Serenity4321]

Not to change the direction of this thread (which may be a good thing), but I have a question. Has anyone had a dream about seeing God or Jesus? I had a dream once that I was at a banquet and was sitting directly next to the left side of Jesus. He said something to me which I can't remember, but when I woke and for several days afterward, I had this all encompassing feeling of peace. Nothing made me annoyed or impatient and I felt like I was smiling inside all the time. I never forgot that dream. Was Jesus communicating with me?

I think you yourself can answer this question much better than anyone else could. IMO if you feel peace from your experience that is what you should focus on. Sounds like you had a beautiful experience. I say enjoy the memory

 

[garyt1957]

Not to change the direction of this thread (which may be a good thing), but I have a question. Has anyone had a dream about seeing God or Jesus? I had a dream once that I was at a banquet and was sitting directly next to the left side of Jesus. He said something to me which I can't remember,

Was it "Pass me the wine"?

 

[Aneeda72]

@Keesha ...This is what Aneeda said about Catholic Bibles. I don't know a thing about their Bible.

And you should @Lara inform yourself because you should be reading the Catholic version of the Bible. I goggled to find out the difference between the two, something you could have done and didn’t. In fact, I believe you made a comment to someone else on this thread about how they could have or should have googled the answer. Oh, well.

Anyway the Catholic Bible contains more original books of the Old Testament then the King James Version or modern version of the Bible. Christians, but non Catholics, removed many of the books/scrolls when the Bible was put together. In addition the Catholic Bible did not change the original Jewish version of the Old Testament.

There were also changes made to the New Testament as well. Remember the Bible was never a book originally. It was scrolls. The scrolls were collected and put together in a book called the Bible. As I remember some of the scrolls that went against Catholic doctrine were burned, but I could be mistaken, it could have been the early non-Catholic religions that burned those scrolls.

Of course, the Dead Sea Scrolls are not included in the King James Version of the Bible since they are a fairly recent find, although I don’t remember the date, ‘60’s or 70’s maybe? Anyway, @Lara you can google this information. I did this for you. I am not that interested as I believe the Bible, as I have said, is a God inspired history book.

 

[Keesha]

@Dana While I have someone on this thread on permanent ignore for their remarks towards my sons, I don’t think you should have Lara on ignore. I appreciate your answers to her. I am no Bible scholar and won’t become one. You add a great deal to this discussion. I know you are becoming frustrated. I hope you will reconsider your decision.

You have me on ignore because I made fun of myself ( which I do often ) and you took the statement personally and decided I was making fun of your sons. It had nothing to do with your sons.

Keesha, Hewbrew sounds like a good name for a beer.

Hahaha. It does.

 

[caroln]

Was it "Pass me the wine"?

That's what I'll think of now, every time I remember the dream! I heard somewhere that Jesus had a good sense of humor!

 

[charry]

Yes ....I’m living it now...!!

 

[Serenity4321]

I am a nonpracticing Catholic. I still call myself Catholic because it is my understanding once one is baptized they remain a Catholic unless excommunicated by the Church

In my 20's I had serious reservations about God, the church, etc. I read up on all the religions I could find and came to the conclusion that there is truth in all.

I dismiss truth exclusivity whether in churches or interpretations. The Bible has many issues as far as interpretations are concerned, but like all great works of art it can 'speak to' and have different meanings to different people. Therefore I do not see the point in telling another their view/interpretation is wrong. I think perhaps individually people have what they need to progress on their path to understanding and it is incumbent on all of us to respect others POVs

 

[Homeschoolie]

@Lara Sheesh.....lighten up.

I know you have been so strongly indoctrinated that you can't waver in your faith even a tiny bit, for a split second or god won't answer your prayers or even worse, you won't get to heaven because doubters don't go.
That god only rewards totally blind, totally unquestioning belief. No matter what is said or what happens...you FEAR doubting or wavering or questioning.
And that he can't be bothered to speak to you, or show up, so he talks to people by what he wrote in the Bible. The bible is all you have.
You may have also been convinced that your way is the only true and real way. And that you must "save" others by being an unwavering, never doubting, teacher and example to others. (hint: it won't work, they don't want to be "saved").

I get it, I totally get it, I was there once.....long time ago.

And then along came the internet with a wealth of knowledge about other religions and what their "books" teach and say.
And the ability to read/access what the dead sea and other ancient scrolls say.
And what the numerous books say that were kicked out of the bible by power hungry religious leaders.
And so much incredible, interesting, awesome information about other spiritual beliefs and spiritual practices and what others have experienced.

I never looked back. I went through religious brainwashing and indoctrination DETOX and REHAB.
It opened up a whole new incredibly interesting life with lots of new possibilities.
And the fear mongering bible god didn't smite me to the ground. He, as usual, didn't bother to say anything or show up.

You have no clue what you are missing and have been missing all these years.. ... I didn't either.

 

[Dana]

Not to change the direction of this thread (which may be a good thing), but I have a question. Has anyone had a dream about seeing God or Jesus? I had a dream once that I was at a banquet and was sitting directly next to the left side of Jesus. He said something to me which I can't remember, but when I woke and for several days afterward, I had this all encompassing feeling of peace. Nothing made me annoyed or impatient and I felt like I was smiling inside all the time. I never forgot that dream. Was Jesus communicating with me?

Heaven alone knows who was communicating wth you caroln...but...I know one thing for sure, it's a special dream and you should keep it close to your heart and not let anyone put their take on it.

Twice in my life I have had dreams that have filled me with awe and such joy. I have my own interpretations of what they meant. I have told no one the details of these dreams because, I feel if I do, the magic will disappear and I will not be blessed with another one.

 

[Dana]

@Dana While I have someone on this thread on permanent ignore for their remarks towards my sons, I don’t think you should have Lara on ignore. I appreciate your answers to her. I am no Bible scholar and won’t become one. You add a great deal to this discussion. I know you are becoming frustrated. I hope you will reconsider your decision.

Thank you Aneeda...but sometimes as the saying goes, enough is enough for now.

 

[Ruthanne]

Thank you Aneeda...but sometimes as the saying goes, enough is enough for now.

Dana you probably know you have every right to put anyone on ignore you want and I have done it too including some in this thread that I needed to. I find it most helpful to do it at times. All the best to you

 

[Shalimar]

In the end, what resonates with me is a person’s character. Are they kind and compassionate, tolerant and empathetic? That is the benchmark, not religion, spirituality, or the lack of it.

 

[Lara]

As I understand it, the Bible’s are different but I’ve not read the Catholic version

And you should @Lara inform yourself because you should be reading the Catholic version of the Bible.

First you say you have not read the Catholic bible. Then you tell me that I should read the Catholic bible.

You won't find ANYwhere in the forum where I've told anyone what they should do.

 

[Lara]

What I find unfair about your approach to God is that any experiences or opinions others have, you immediately compare them with a book written thousands of years ago. It becomes more of a dictatorship instead of a conversation. It’s like you have all of the RIGHT answers and the rest of us just don’t know because we don’t know the Bible like you do. The Bible isn’t the only book written about the energy within us and all around us. There are many books out there but even more important than that; people have profound experiences with our creator everyday by going out and experiencing life. Most of the people that I know who resort to the Bible are very closed minded. This is my opinion only. I respect your right to think differently but please respect my right to believe how I wish to.

The thread topic is Eternal Hell...which is in the Bible. The term, "Eternal Hell" started in the New Testament of the Bible. So why shouldn't I refer to the Bible? The thread title is also asking me "Do you believe?" It literally wants my personal belief...not yours.

You say you respect my right to think differently yet called me a "closed-minded Dictator". I haven't asked anyone to stop sharing their own belief or post their references....out of respect. I have repeatedly posted, "I'm not trying to change anyone's mind".

God created us with the ability to choose. It's scriptural that it's a personal choice to believe or not which determines their ultimate eternal destiny. So there is no way in Hell I would want to make that choice for them!

I can honestly say that I've never accused anyone of being "closed minded". Attacking the poster and not the post is actually against the rules.

I don't have "all the right answers" so I refer to the Bible which I believe with all my heart has the right answers. I'm unapologetic about that.
I won't let people silence me, try as they might. It's freedom of speech. It's freedom of religion.

My opinion is just as important as everyone else's. You say "the Bible isn't the only book written about the energy within and around us"...but that's not the Thread Topic. It's Eternal Hell.

I'm not at all offended for anyone to put me on ignore. It's easier on them and it's easier on me. I encourage it if I make you uncomfortable.

 

[caroln]

Heaven alone knows who was communicating wth you caroln...but...I know one thing for sure, it's a special dream and you should keep it close to your heart and not let anyone put their take on it.

Twice in my life I have had dreams that have filled me with awe and such joy. I have my own interpretations of what they meant. I have told no one the details of these dreams because, I feel if I do, the magic will disappear and I will not be blessed with another one.

I totally agree with you. I haven't shared this dream before, but I've wondered about it for so long I thought I'd just put it out here to possibly get some "dream interpretations". I've always hoped to get a second dream of the same sort, but I guess one is all I get!

 

[Keesha]

The thread topic is Eternal Hell...which is in the Bible. The term, "Eternal Hell" started in the New Testament of the Bible. So why shouldn't I refer to the Bible? The thread title is also asking me "Do you believe?" It literally wants my personal belief...not yours.

You say you respect my right to think differently yet called me a "closed-minded Dictator". I haven't asked anyone to stop sharing their own belief or post their references....out of respect. I have repeatedly posted, "I'm not trying to change anyone's mind".

God created us with the ability to choose. It's scriptural that it's a personal choice to believe or not which determines their ultimate eternal destiny. So there is no way in Hell I would want to make that choice for them!

I can honestly say that I've never accused anyone of being "closed minded". Attacking the poster and not the post is actually against the rules.

I don't have "all the right answers" so I refer to the Bible which I believe with all my heart has the right answers. I'm unapologetic about that.
I won't let people silence me, try as they might. It's freedom of speech. It's freedom of religion.

My opinion is just as important as everyone else's. You say "the Bible isn't the only book written about the energy within and around us"...but that's not the Thread Topic. It's Eternal Hell.

I'm not at all offended for anyone to put me on ignore. It's easier on them and it's easier on me. I encourage it if I make you uncomfortable.

Lara. Where in my post did I call you a closed minded dictator? No where. I said ( and quote ) ‘most of the people I know who resort to the Bible are very closed minded.’ ( end quote )
Your name wasn’t in there.

The topic is ‘Do you believe in eternal hell.’ You believe the topic was conceived of through the Bible. Why? Because you read it in the Bible.
Maybe it was discussed long before the Bible was written. You don’t know that.

Of course you are allowed your opinion. You’ve given it plenty of times however when others have anything to say that contradicts your viewpoints you resort to Bible verses to prove them wrong.

Dana gave us a touching real life experience from a near death experience her son had and your response was that his experience couldn’t have happened that way and posted Bible references concluding that your answer must be right since you got the answer from the Bible.

You then say ( quote ) I don’t stop anyone from sharing their own beliefs or post references.....out of respect. ( end quote )
No you don’t stop anyone from sharing their beliefs nor do you ask for references.????
Why would people need references if they are sharing THeiR beliefs.? You only need references if you are sharing someone else’s beliefs which you do.

You may not be trying to change anyone else’s mind but it does seem like you are challenging others who don’t believe like you do. Even the Catholics you’ve had some words to say stating that they’ve got their minds made up already. And you don’t?

I’ve never accused anyone in particular of being closed minded either Lara. I didn’t attack you as a member so please stop acting like I did. I DID however mention that your way of conversing in this particular conversation seems more like a dictatorship so I WAS referring to your posting style and content.

Your quote “I don’t have all the right answers so I refer to the Bible which I believe in all my heart has all the right answers. “ unquote . If you are debating using biblical references as YOUR OWN answers which you believe in all your heart is 100% right, then you yourself think you have all the ‘right’ answers.
Others can write about some miraculous experiences and you will research through your Bible so you know how to respond to them.

Also, I never asked you to apologize nor was I trying to silence you. I didn’t expect in the least that you would stop posting due to my frustration nor would I consider not posting due to yours.

I also didn’t say or even suggest that your opinion isn’t as important or significant as anyone else’s. You are finding words that just aren’t there.

Yes I wrote that the Bible isn’t the only book to talk about the energy within us ‘referring to our spirit or soul.’ If we are having a discussion about where the soul goes after death, there are thousands of books written on the subject besides the Bible.

Then to add a note suggesting members can put you on ignore if you make any of us uncomfortable? I’m not sure why you even added that. Of course we can. We don’t even need your permission. Lol.

Anyway Lara, I refuse to debate over this any more with you. There are plenty of topics that don’t offer a debatable opinion which I will find.

Have a great weekend.
Note: friends are allowed to disagree.
You know I love you.

 

[Aneeda72]

The thread topic is Eternal Hell...which is in the Bible. The term, "Eternal Hell" started in the New Testament of the Bible. So why shouldn't I refer to the Bible? The thread title is also asking me "Do you believe?" It literally wants my personal belief...not yours.

You say you respect my right to think differently yet called me a "closed-minded Dictator". I haven't asked anyone to stop sharing their own belief or post their references....out of respect. I have repeatedly posted, "I'm not trying to change anyone's mind".

God created us with the ability to choose. It's scriptural that it's a personal choice to believe or not which determines their ultimate eternal destiny. So there is no way in Hell I would want to make that choice for them!

I can honestly say that I've never accused anyone of being "closed minded". Attacking the poster and not the post is actually against the rules.

I don't have "all the right answers" so I refer to the Bible which I believe with all my heart has the right answers. I'm unapologetic about that.
I won't let people silence me, try as they might. It's freedom of speech. It's freedom of religion.

My opinion is just as important as everyone else's. You say "the Bible isn't the only book written about the energy within and around us"...but that's not the Thread Topic. It's Eternal Hell.

I'm not at all offended for anyone to put me on ignore. It's easier on them and it's easier on me. I encourage it if I make you uncomfortable.

Hmm, I will not respond to anything but what you have written since I have the person you are speaking against on permanent ignore, however, @Lara I believe you are losing it a bit, to quote what you wrote- “The thread title is also asking me “Do you Believe” it literally wants my personal belief not yours.”

Are you hearing voices?-Lara. This thread was not started by the OP just for you to espouse your own personal beliefs. As I have said, many times, it’s a discussion. As I have said, before, no one is trying to silence you, no one is denying you any of your freedoms, no one cares about your religion. NO ONE CARES. This is just an interesting discussion. You are an interesting person. And please stop saying stuff is “against the rules” this is not grade school.

We are all aware of the thread title. Threads tend to drift off in other directions. Every now and then someone remarks that the thread has drifted, but conversations drift all the time, threads drift all the times, and while it can be frustrating sometimes to the OP, its ok. I have said this before to you.

If it really bothers you, that the thread is off topic, I have already suggested you start a thread, a Bible thread if you like . You refused because of the views this thread is getting and that’s fine. It was a suggestion, not a command, not telling you what to do, just a suggestion.

I believe that you are ”closed minded”. Nothing wrong with being closed minded but it limits your possibilities. You are certainly disrespectful and closed mind towards Catholics, IMO, but that’s ok, doesn’t bother me because I am an open minded person, and this is just my opinion. Not attacking you, just giving my opinion.

I believe you have attacked the person you were speaking to in the above conversation. That person asked me that I not use their name since I have them on permanent ignore, so I can not use their name, and don’t want to. Makes it a bit awkward , but you know who I mean I think.

In any event, calm down, Lara. It’s just a discussion, nothing to get excited about. People are getting frustrated. I get frustrated on some threads as well. But it’s not worth having a stroke over. I am so behind this morning, got to get in gear. Bbl.

 

[Lara]

Keesha...I can't believe how you twisted everything I've said on every line of your post. It would take half a page to correct the accusations of what I've said in reality. I'm not going to waste my time explaining myself to someone who is committed to misunderstanding me.

Aneeda...you're just way off base...your attacks are not worth my time.

What is happening here is that when members no longer have anything to add to the topic..."Do You Believe in an Eternal Hell" in this case....it deteriorates into attacking the members with deceptive accusations, slander, name-calling, twisted meanings, and gossip.

That's what gets threads closed...maybe that's your wish.

 

[Lara]

Back to the topic. Eternal Hell was first mentioned in the New Testament of the Bible. In the Old Testament there was Sheol and Hades but they were different and not eternal. Does anyone have proof as to where "Eternal Hell" was ever mentioned before the OT?