Do you believe in capital punishment?

I once had a friend who was strongly opposed to capital punishment until her only child, a daughter, was brutally stabbed and left to die by an ex-boyfriend. My friend's view on capital punishment changed.

I oppose it now but I cannot say what I would feel under other circumstances.
 

helenbacque said:
I once had a friend who was strongly opposed to capital punishment until her only child, a daughter, was brutally stabbed and left to die by an ex-boyfriend. My friend's view on capital punishment changed.

I oppose it now but I cannot say what I would feel under other circumstances.
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We can all understand the feelings of this person. They have been so violated that it is likely they will never recover completely. The question still becomes: Is revenge the proper course. Will revenge alleviate their pain. If this woman was given a knife and told that she could take this person's life by stabbing the offender to death, would this be good for her?

There is a ritual in Africa that is about forgiveness. Apartheid caused thousands to die before Mandela came to power. The white Africans tortured and killed many blacks in the name of segregation. When it was over these men were let off if they came before the families they had harmed. They answered the families questions and witnessed the families pain. They then apologized. Black Africans swore that this caused healing to begin.

Having said that, I believe that an offer to the offender of suicide for their pain should occur.
Depending on whether a person is seen as redeemable and depending on the possibility that the person might re-offend, they should be executed. But this should never be about revenge.
 
Uncontrolable said:
We can all understand the feelings of this person. They have been so violated that it is likely they will never recover completely. The question still becomes: Is revenge the proper course. Will revenge alleviate their pain. If this woman was given a knife and told that she could take this person's life by stabbing the offender to death, would this be good for her?

There is a ritual in Africa that is about forgiveness. Apartheid caused thousands to die before Mandela came to power. The white Africans tortured and killed many blacks in the name of segregation. When it was over these men were let off if they came before the families they had harmed. They answered the families questions and witnessed the families pain. They then apologized. Black Africans swore that this caused healing to begin.

Having said that, I believe that an offer to the offender of suicide for their pain should occur.
Depending on whether a person is seen as redeemable and depending on the possibility that the person might re-offend, they should be executed. But this should never be about revenge.
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Revenge (I prefer the term payback, but we'll stick with revenge) has gotten a bad rap from the pacifist weenies. I look at revenge as a way of helping to restore harmony and balance to the Universe. However I believe that whoever said "Revenge is a dish best served cold" was a genius. One should never try to exact revenge in anger. If you do you will probably screw up. "Don't get Mad, Get Even".
 

Trade said:
Revenge (I prefer the term payback, but we'll stick with revenge) has gotten a bad rap from the pacifist weenies. I look at revenge as a way of helping to restore harmony and balance to the Universe. However I believe that whoever said "Revenge is a dish best served cold" was a genius. One should never try to exact revenge in anger. If you do you will probably screw up. "Don't get Mad, Get Even".
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I do not want that kind of anger in my heart. It has little to do with what someone else has done. It is a choice I make as to how I want to feel.
 
Interesting discussion, with the usual spectrum of answers.

Here's my take on it: I certainly don't believe in just letting hardened criminals get off scot free. But why does anyone need to be executed? Isn't life without parole a sufficient punishment for anything? I personally would rather be dead than contemplate facing the rest of my life in prison, with no hope of getting out. For those who are so hung up on "revenge," they might consider that life in prison is stronger revenge than execution. And people don't escape very often from maximum security prisons. Once you're in, you're in.

As Bee said, even one innocent person executed is too much.
 
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Sunny said:
Interesting discussion, with the usual spectrum of answers.

Here's my take on it: I certainly don't believe in just letting hardened criminals get off scot free. But why does anyone need to be executed? Isn't life without parole a sufficient punishment for anything? I personally would rather be dead than contemplate facing the rest of my life in prison, with no hope of getting out. For those who are so hung up on "revenge," they might consider that life in prison is stronger revenge than execution. And people don't escape very often from maximum security prisons. Once you're in, you're in.

As Bee said, even one innocent person executed is too much.
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As I said, I am not interested in killing people as a matter of societal revenge. I am proposing, in the case of someone who is irredeemable, like Jeffery Daumer. That society not bear the burden of caring for this person, plus eliminating the possibility this person could re-offend. I would also offer a person like Daumer the choice of suicide. People like Daumer might be in enormous pain. They likely suffered torture themselves when they were young.

This is one of those really touchy questions. I must admit that I am unsure about this. I think, in a sense this is a way we could offer this person mercy. That is the problem.

I amend my former statement. People should be offered the chance of assisted suicide. It should always be a choice the person can make for themselves.
 
Dragonlady said:
You would think so, but it doesn't always work out that way
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This is a difficult subject. There are many paradoxes in life. This is beginning to sound like one of them. Lets assume we are talking about an offender to tortured his victims before killing them in a most painful manner. In other words, in a system that is pro death this person would be likely to be sentenced to death, or barring death to a life sentence.

Let us also assume that there are provisions in this same legal system that say a person may not be assisted with their death unless they consent. This system is then pro death and pro life at the same time. It would just be a matter of legal wording.

We might be surprised to find that many of these people would choose death.
 
Shalimar said:
If you want revenge, dig two holes.
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Shalimar, you state the profound. I wrote about what happened in Africa. Africans have a ritual designed for forgiveness. Perhaps thousands of Africans were raped, tortured, and killed for Apartheid. When Mandela came to power the blacks began their ritual. Persons who had raped, tortured and killed people were brought before the victim or family of the victim. They were required to tell the family, or the victim very specifically what they had done. This was done in a public setting. The family and/or victim would then tell the offender how they felt, how much pain they were in, etc. Then the offender was released. The Africans said this produced for them the beginning of healing. I remember thinking what an amazing thing had occurred.
 
Yes I believe in capital punishment. That as a way IMO is a better way to exact the justice that some societies expect for crimes that rise to the level of such a sentence. The same crimes humanitarians think death is barbaric yet think incarceration for life in a cell with 23 hours of confinement is just.


It's easy to say no when not directly affected. I think about a beheading of an innocent person at the hands of a religious zealot. That IMO is barbaric, putting that person on a gurney and injecting him in the way that is prescribed IMO isn't barbaric.

I don't look at a death penalty as revenge. I look at the death penalty as a way for society to assess the crime committed, evaluate the circumstance and decide what benefits society, not what benefits the person that committed the crime.
 
Knight said:
Yes I believe in capital punishment. That as a way IMO is a better way to exact the justice that some societies expect for crimes that rise to the level of such a sentence. The same crimes humanitarians think death is barbaric yet think incarceration for life in a cell with 23 hours of confinement is just.


It's easy to say no when not directly affected. I think about a beheading of an innocent person at the hands of a religious zealot. That IMO is barbaric, putting that person on a gurney and injecting him in the way that is prescribed IMO isn't barbaric.

I don't look at a death penalty as revenge. I look at the death penalty as a way for society to assess the crime committed, evaluate the circumstance and decide what benefits society, not what benefits the person that committed the crime.
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Our judicial system is for legal revenge. When this country was young people took revenge for injustices real or imagined. Laws came into being as attempt to stop one family from killing another. There were vigilantes and mobs with no legal backing. This was the history of the US. The laws that were created reflected the will of the people who wanted revenge for offenses done to them. Over the years our legal system has evolved to where one state doesn't want the death penalty and another does. Our system has always been about punishing the offender. So we take legal revenge.

The question that comes up for me is what are we doing to deter crime? Incarceration and revenge doesn't seem to work. Prisons get larger. More and more offenders each year. How many people do we kill, or put in jail? When will it be enough?

This is why people are confused about the death penalty. The other question that comes up is, how does revenge help the family, or the individual?
Revenge cannot bring someone back.
 
trade I don't share your opinion that our justice system is about revenge. If it were then only those affected would be the ones to exact revenge. Our system has a variety of procedures in place to seek the cause and ultimately the sentence to be carried out.

Rehabilitation is a nice word used but in reality people don't even want half way houses in their neighborhoods for convicts that haven't been convicted of heinous crimes. It sounds nice to want everyone to live a long and secluded life behind bars. I mentioned 23 hours in seclusion yet that was ignored. Barbaric is all in the eye of the beholder.
 
Knight said:
trade I don't share your opinion that our justice system is about revenge. If it were then only those affected would be the ones to exact revenge. Our system has a variety of procedures in place to seek the cause and ultimately the sentence to be carried out.

Rehabilitation is a nice word used but in reality people don't even want half way houses in their neighborhoods for convicts that haven't been convicted of heinous crimes. It sounds nice to want everyone to live a long and secluded life behind bars. I mentioned 23 hours in seclusion yet that was ignored. Barbaric is all in the eye of the beholder.
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Well, guess we have to disagree on this one.
 
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I would not ever be in favor of the death penalty if a life sentence really meant "life." Here in New Mexico it does not.

Revenge or not, there are people who should NEVER be back out in society again -- torture murderers, child rapists/murderers, serial killers, mass murderers, etc. Would you want that BTK killer moving in next to you because he is allegedly rehabilitated?
 
The people we never hear from in the debate for death penalty for murderers is the victims. We can only ponder what the victims would say in the courtroom.
 
Ponderer said:
The people we never hear from in the debate for death penalty for murderers is the victims. We can only ponder what the victims would say in the courtroom.
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I have seen people who wanted revenge, but I have seen many who forgave the person who committed the crime. People may not be forgiving for the criminal, but for themselves. The burden of hatred can be very heavy.
 
I will repeat one more time, I believe the punishment should fit the crime.

I am now done with this thread.
 

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