Do you think men are losing their masculinity?

Old Salt said:
Your understanding of masculinity is once again a cultural thing. In Germany in the late forties and fifties there was no such thing as DIY. A room needed painting, you called the painter, a faucet leaked, you called the plumber. We grew up with no clue when it came to being "practical!" You know what I am getting at!

Would Goethe and Schiller or Beethoven or Haendel be considered to be less masculine, just because their talents lay elsewhere! My talent was in the writing of 48 sermons a year over a period of 23 years while trying to keep my congregations awake! And to this day, I rely on my Son-In-Law to do the minor "practical" chores for me! Do you hear me, scoffers? Are you willing to admit now that my masculinity and that of other creative people, who can't drive a straight nail, might nevertheless still be fully intact?

Or are you still attracted to the bad boys and judge manliness by their conduct and abilities?
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48 sermons a year?
Were you a priest, preacher or minister?
23 years is a long time.
Did you enjoy your work?
 

PeppermintPatty said:
48 sermons a year?
Were you a priest, preacher or minister?
23 years is a long time.
Did you enjoy your work?
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I was a minister, PP. I loved preaching but always felt that I should have been an Evangelist rather than a Pastor. I felt terribly inadequate because I was shy and diffident when it came to being one on one, as well as when it came to social occasions like Church Suppers etc.!

I had no problem with shyness when a situation called for a pastor's presence, it was small talk that was killing me! Not exactly a desirable trait in a minister! Thank God for my wife who made up for my shortcomings by loving everybody and making friends in minutes!
 
Old Salt said:
I was a minister, PP. I loved preaching but always felt that I should have been an Evangelist rather than a Pastor. I felt terribly inadequate because I was shy and diffident when it came to being one on one, as well as when it came to social occasions like Church Suppers etc.!

I had no problem with shyness when a situation called for a pastor's presence, it was small talk that was killing me! Not exactly a desirable trait in a minister! Thank God for my wife who made up for my shortcomings by loving everybody and making friends in minutes!
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A minister. That’s a really interesting career. It’s no wonder you have such a gentle and loving disposition.
 
MountainRa said:
I do feel they are losing, or never developing, skills we traditionally think of as male. So many of the young men today have no ability at the very basic electrical, plumbing, carpentry skills older generations have.
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The only guy I've known who had a broad range of skills was one who grew up on a farm in modern times. My father wasn't any good at those skills, but he grew up on a farm that still used an outhouse, a hand pumped well, and a stove that used corn cobs as fuel.

I love that nowadays there are so many types of educational toys and building kits for kids that include all sorts of skills.
 
PeppermintPatty said:
A minister. That’s a really interesting career. It’s no wonder you have such a gentle and loving disposition.
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I came to the career when I was already in my forties, after a convincing conversion experience, and don't think too highly of me, PP. I do have my triggers! You'll see, as I keep corresponding in this forum! Which will be for some time yet, I hope, since I am having too good a time being open without actually having to sit across from others! :)
 
Pepper said:
How? What? Fill me in, be as specific as you can, I'm really interested.
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Ok, it's a lot, but I'll try to keep it short. I'll just take the example of the lady who Disney put in charge of the Star Wars legacy, executive producer Kathleen Kennedy. She's just one example, and so is her Star Wars project.

So, it was Ms Kennedy's job to get a whole new generation hooked on Star Wars by producing a slew of sequels to the original fantasy adventures. Most of the main characters were male. They were knights, descendants of knights, political leaders, and a mercenary bounty hunter. The main female character was a noble princess with grit and ethics.

Among other things, including good vs evil, the original concept was about personal growth. Every main character earned his or her accomplishments through personal growth - hard work, developing an understanding of others, becoming selfless, setting goals and sticking to them....etc

Ms Kennedy's sequels take a big ol' crap on that legacy. She wants her female characters to win big and win now. She turns all the original male characters into meaningless old farts just waiting to die, and creates new female characters who don't earn a damn thing because they're magically born with expertise, super strength and intelligence, incredible fighting skills, and the noble legacy of knights. And they don't become selfless. Ever. They remain self-centered, manipulative arseholes to the end.

There's a lot more to it than this. This is just a small sample of What and How. (the Who was a bonus)
 
Old Salt said:
I came to the career when I was already in my forties, after a convincing conversion experience, and don't think too highly of me, PP. I do have my triggers! You'll see, as I keep corresponding in this forum! Which will be for some time yet, I hope, since I am having too good a time being open without actually having to sit across from others! :)
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Everyone has their triggers Old Salt
That’s what makes us human.
Do you prefer talking to others without sitting across from them?
 
Old Salt said:
I caused moral outrage in our apartment building in N.S. by walking down the street, holding hands with a dear female friend of ours. I thought nothing of it but my neighbours either thought I was cheating on my wife, or that we were swingers! Next day I found a little note on our mailbox: Perverts!!!! :( So beware immigrants to North America! Holding hands with the opposite sex is not a casual thing here! And holding hands with another man is definitely "gay!"
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I think back to several years ago when a group of Frenchmen came over to the UK to a training department in a factory where I work. I was at the same training department at the time. The Frenchmen came over from an associated factory in northern France. They greeted each other in the morning with a hand shake and a kiss on the cheek. At no point did I consider them not to be masculine. Maybe there wife’s never considered them less of a man either?

I think we have to be carful with putting our own cultural sense of masculinity on others. Even people within the same society have differences of thinking regarding what masculinity is, and whether some men have lost it or not. Turn that thought around when considering what femininity is. There is not a one description fits all.

As a kind of side note, I now think back to a small number of conversations where I’ve asked the question, ”Does he allow you to be and act what you would consider to be a woman?” The answer I got was usually Yes. The response I then gave was, “Then why do you try to restrict him from being a man?
 
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Do men cry when they are hurt bad, Hell yes!
Do women cry out when in childbirth, hell no they scream at men!
Do gays scream out when getting a child, hell not, their adopted in Court.
Can a real may cry when terrible stuff happens, hell yeah!
Showing your heart is hurting isn't unmanly, you're a human being~!
There are things like not doing anything, getting someone else to do it.
well, that's not unmanly, it means you take advantage of others.
 
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PeppermintPatty said:
Everyone has their triggers Old Salt
That’s what makes us human.
Do you prefer talking to others without sitting across from them?
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interesting question. Some cultures might see sitting opposite each other when talking as somewhat confrontational. At work people above me will sit at right angle to me as not to appear confrontational.

Since the age of 18, with past girlfriends of mine, I’ve preferred to sit side by side when talking. Even on occasions doing the same when out for a meal. There were two American girlfriends of mine who at first thought this a bit strange, but eventually preferred it over sitting opposite me. They then felt that sitting side by side made us feel ’closer’.
 
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I do not believe men are losing their masculinity. I see the role of masculinity as expanding and evolving. Yes, there are those who are less "masculine". They have always existed. I think to say a man has to be agressive or in charge of relationships has always been false. The only time I believe in being agressive is when there is danger to be faced. We women can be agressive when we have to protect. Relationships should be partnerships in my opinion. Maybe the divorce rate would not be so high if people were partners rather than trying to be "in charge".
 
PeppermintPatty said:
Everyone has their triggers Old Salt
That’s what makes us human.
Do you prefer talking to others without sitting across from them?
Click to expand...
Well, that's the strange thing, PP. Here I am running off at the mouth all day long, yet I have nightmares about having to make a real life conversation. I even hate phones and Skype because they force me to say something spontaneously! I am okay if the other person loves to gab! Listening isn't hard, but expect me to contribute to the conversation and I freeze. An email, or text, or forum is so much better. It allows me to think and weigh my words.
 
Magna-Carta said:
interesting question. Some cultures might see sitting opposite each other when talking as somewhat confrontational. At work people above me will sit at right angle to me as not to appear confrontational.

Since the age of 18, with past girlfriends of mine, I’ve preferred to sit side by side when talking. Even on occasions doing the same when out for a meal. There were two American girlfriends of mine who at first thought this a bit strange, but eventually preferred it over sitting opposite me. They then felt that sitting side by side made us feel ’closer’.
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I’ve never considered it that way. In fact, I generally thought sitting across opposite of one each other was considered an act of trust since you have perfect eye contact. When you can look at someone straight in the eye and they don’t flinch or look away, while talking, it shows confidence and honesty. At least that’s what I’ve always thought. The eyes and eye contact or lack of it tell a lot about a person.
 
Old Salt said:
I was a minister, PP. I loved preaching but always felt that I should have been an Evangelist rather than a Pastor. I felt terribly inadequate because I was shy and diffident when it came to being one on one, as well as when it came to social occasions like Church Suppers etc.!

I had no problem with shyness when a situation called for a pastor's presence, it was small talk that was killing me! Not exactly a desirable trait in a minister! Thank God for my wife who made up for my shortcomings by loving everybody and making friends in minutes!
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It can be difficult to carry out the mission for which one is called for, be it ministering, teaching or leading people in some capacity. Acting! Acting frequently is very stressful. Stage fright, lectern fright, pulpit fright...very real, can be somewhat debilitating. Some people love the attention, they are blessed, although I suspect some might be narcissists...in a good way.
 
I think if we were all to list up what we think masculinity is or should be, we might give differing answers. To then answer the question as to are men or some men losing it, could be equally challenging. Or at least in a way that most agree with.
 
Old Salt said:
Well, that's the strange thing, PP. Here I am running off at the mouth all day long, yet I have nightmares about having to make a real life conversation. I even hate phones and Skype because they force me to say something spontaneously! I am okay if the other person loves to gab! Listening isn't hard, but expect me to contribute to the conversation and I freeze. An email, or text, or forum is so much better. It allows me to think and weigh my words.
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Not a strange thing at all. It’s a well known fact that public speaking is the number one fear of most people. For some people one on one conversations are even worse. I dislike talking on the phone, have never done Skype on Zoom or any other online face to face contact. I prefer the written word also. It gives time to think about what I want to say.
There’s many of us like you Salt. It’s not that unusual at all. It’s actually very common.
 

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