Do you think men are losing their masculinity?

PeppermintPatty said:
I’ve never considered it that way. In fact, I generally thought sitting across opposite of one each other was considered an act of trust since you have perfect eye contact. When you can look at someone straight in the eye and they don’t flinch or look away, while talking, it shows confidence and honesty. At least that’s what I’ve always thought. The eyes and eye contact or lack of it tell a lot about a person.
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Some very good valid points there. Could there be a different kind or level of trust when feeling little to no need to look at someone in the eyes all or most of the time.

When I’ve sat side by side, even in a restaurant, there is always the opportunity to turn one’s head to look directly at someone, or at their eyes. In some situations I don’t feel I need to look directly at someone all the time. And I would hope that the other person would think that isn’t always necessary either. But saying that, there can be something really special when turning to the side and looking at the other person directly in the eyes when talking. I personally think to look at someone in the face or eyes all or most of the time at say a restaurant can take something away. Can reduce the intensity and meaning of wanting to look someone in the eye. If you see what I mean?

I seems that when I’m in social settings with friends or family, females, including more specifically female cousins for some reason, wont to sit side by side with me when talking. I sometimes think what have I done to cause or create that. For the most part it just makes me smile.
 

Magna-Carta said:
Some very good valid points there. Could there be a different kind or level of trust when feeling little to no need to look at someone in the eyes all or most of the time.

When I’ve sat side by side, even in a restaurant, there is always the opportunity to turn one’s head to look directly at someone, or at their eyes. In some situations I don’t feel I need to look directly at someone all the time. And I would hope that the other person would think that isn’t always necessary either. But saying that, there can be something really special when turning to the side and looking at the other person directly in the eyes when talking. I personally think to look at someone in the face or eyes all or most of the time at say a restaurant can take something away. Can reduce the intensity and meaning of wanting to look someone in the eye. If you see what I mean?

I seems that when I’m in social settings with friends or family, females, including more specifically female cousins for some reason, wont to sit side by side with me when talking. I sometimes think what have I done to cause or create that. For the most part it just makes me smile.
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Good points also. I’m a very distrusting person so need direct eye contact when people are near me or around me.

True. Direct eye contact for long periods of time can be too intense. I don’t think I’ve ever sat side by side with my own partner while dining. 🤔 Interesting. Well that’s certainly food for thought.
 

Lara said:
Good or bad, right or wrong, I'm just saying...
It all started when women started fighting for equality.
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I think fighting for equality can be a good thing, on all sides. The manner and circumstances of the ‘fight’ can possibly be questionable at times though.

Then there is equality in what, to consider. Fighting for equality in everything, or just cherry picking. Are there some things that both sides don’t want equality in.
 
Lara said:
Good or bad, right or wrong, I'm just saying...
It all started when women started fighting for equality.
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Thank goodness we did fight for equality otherwise I would never have been able to leave home at 16 and find a job . I’d have to get married early and depend on some man to take care of me and raise babies. Of course , how many babies would be up to him. I’d be expected to clean house, do laundry and cook all meals with a smile on my face. No thanks.
 
I think equality is the right thing too but as you know women started doing it all...working, paying the bills, taking care of the household, cooking cleaning, shopping, helping with homework, taxiing the kids everywhere, etc etc....

....meanwhile SOME men took that as a time to sit on the couch with a beer, a TV, a remote, and drop being our knights in shining armor because we looked less needy.

But that's not true of most in men my opinion.
We've lost a lot of our brave masculine men on the battlefield 😪
 
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fuzzybuddy said:
Do you think men are losing their masculinity?
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Got me
I don't look at men
Or even think about 'em in regard whether they're masculine or not

I do think some about wimin

Wrote about it few years back

Nothing's changed

Wimin

The most mysterious beings of our planet

I found out long ago, about sixty years or so, that gaining favor with the finer gender of our specie is not necessarily in my best interest.
Whole different frequency
Wired different
Fiber optic vs 9 gauge single conductor
Fascinating, mystical, attractive, you bet
Sensitivities I’d never remotely considered
But, hanging with a group of ladies?

Can’t

Mentally; exhausting

Socially; this ogre doesn’t stand a chance

Spiritually; beyond any reach I may have thought I had

Physically; like looking into the sun,
can go blind if obsessing too long

Gaining favor?
Whimsical touches
Nothing of depth
Any more than that and I find myself precariously dangling off a mental precipice

I can do one, maybe two per sitting
and that is mostly because they sense my discomfort to the point of putting forth effort to discuss what I’m interested in
I’ve learned to pick up on this and placate for a bit, then find a way to excuse myself

I don’t avoid ladies, but have learned not to seek them out
It’s what shops are for

I’ve been fortunate

My lady has put up with me for half a century

When I become too much and I (for some unknown reason) anger her,
I found placing my calloused hand on the small of her back will still cause her to flinch
….and she begrudgingly forgives me

We have had this tryst, this romance that has yet to fade

She’s plenty for me

Forever


So, here I remain
Baffled, yet attracted at the mysteries, complexities
A sentry
A defender
A protector
A willing grunt

Keeping the fire

best I can

grunt.jpg
 
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PeppermintPatty said:
Good points also. I’m a very distrusting person so need direct eye contact when people are near me or around me.

True. Direct eye contact for long periods of time can be too intense. I don’t think I’ve ever sat side by side with my own partner while dining. 🤔 Interesting. Well that’s certainly food for thought.
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i think sitting opposite each other can have its benefits. Particularly when having to deal with something partly serious or dealing with a common goal, when dealing with it as equals that is. To do it when there might already be some level of confrontation might end up being unproductive.

I’ve sat in front of people in discussions when only looking at them in their eyes, and it’s felt comfortable and natural to me. But I become aware that some might find it intimidating, when intimidation wasn’t my intention.

Going back to the question of losing masculinity, I can’t help wondering if both genders might be loosing their way sometimes. Not being sure what masculinity or femininity is anymore, or what aspects of both an individual can take on. We just need to be genuine to ourselves first. We will all be judged regardless, and those judging won’t usually be in agreement.
 
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DebraMae said:
I do not believe men are losing their masculinity. I see the role of masculinity as expanding and evolving. Yes, there are those who are less "masculine". They have always existed. I think to say a man has to be agressive or in charge of relationships has always been false. The only time I believe in being agressive is when there is danger to be faced. We women can be agressive when we have to protect. Relationships should be partnerships in my opinion. Maybe the divorce rate would not be so high if people were partners rather than trying to be "in charge".
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Speaking about the average marriage from the perspective of my peers and my own experience 5 to 3 decades ago, when the husband came home from work, he got to turn off his "In Charge" mode. When his wife left work, she was basically going home to her other job. But, back then, she wasn't in charge of much at her outside job. She almost always worked in a supporting capacity. That was not true of her job at home. Even if he was "the boss," everyone knew she ran the home and he had the supporting role.

That was expected and natural to people back then.
 
PeppermintPatty said:
I wish men were like that in our culture. I think it would be nice seeing two men holding hands as a sign of friendship and respect.
Unfortunately they would be targeted as being homosexual which is truly sad. 🙁
And I know my post will be scorned at.
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Men demonstrate their love for each other differently in the west, where hand-holding is for toddlers and romantic partners.

We do love our male friends. We love some of them very, very much.
 
My Taiwanese g/f used to always take my arm when we were out together. I never noticed any "looks". Maybe
because we were usually in a Chinese establishment.

When I was a teen, and younger, I always locked arms with my mother as we walked down the street.

edit: Apologies for going off topic.
 
fuzzybuddy said:
Do you think men are losing their masculinity?
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Everybody had interesting posts and I appreciated many of them. The questions that popped out in my mind as I read this question was:
1) How does one define masculinity? (Gaer had offered some interesting definitions).
2) At what age does masculinity decline in a man? (I have known for a long time that older men have declining testosterone and here's some info on it: https://www.hgha.com/testosterone-levels-in-men-by-age/ )
3) As a few posters noted, different cultures treat masculinity different (e.g. Parisians holding hands and kissing cheeks). This goes back to defining masculinity.
4) Also, men are not living on islands. They live in a society of family, friends, lovers, colleagues, etc. If one did a study asking all these people who know these "men" what they think about their masculinity, what would the results be?
5) I have also read about BPA, and this might be a valid point that some posters mentioned.
6) Finally, men were typically raised by mothers and fathers in the old days. Parents were role models for their children. In this time and age, many children are not raised solely by parents (two-income family), but by social media, cell phones, etc. Gender these days is morphing at a fast pace (LGBTQ), and this evolving concept is entering into our homes at supersonic speed through media and movies. What boys absorb through society as normal in masculine "behavior" may not be the same "normal" behavior from our past. Is it good or bad? Not for me to say, but if it harms our human species into extinction, it can be bad, very bad.
 
PeppermintPatty said:
I wish men were like that in our culture. I think it would be nice seeing two men holding hands as a sign of friendship and respect.
Unfortunately they would be targeted as being homosexual which is truly sad. 🙁
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Interesting thing. I held my father's and grandfather's hands, when I was young and again with they were older and sick, but not in-between. Held my FIL's hand when he was dying. Held grandsons's hands a few times when they were young, crossing the street and things like that. I am not a big hand holder, in public, other than the grandkids, only occasionally with a lover or SO, not much recently. Never had a man in a relationship like that, so no male handholding.

I think you are right when adult men hold hands in public most people assume they are gay, I am probably guilty of that...
PeppermintPatty said:
And I know my post will be scorned at.
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Not scorning yet... but maybe I can work up to it, LOL.
fuzzybuddy said:
Do you think men are losing their masculinity?
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No, not that I can see. But some of us are losing our hair...
 
Lara said:
I think equality is the right thing too but as you know women started doing it all...working, paying the bills, taking care of the household, cooking cleaning, shopping, helping with homework, taxiing the kids everywhere, etc etc....

....meanwhile SOME men took that as a time to sit on the couch with a beer, a TV, a remote, and drop being our knights in shining armor because we looked less needy.

But that's not true of most in men my opinion.
We've lost a lot of our brave masculine men on the battlefield 😪
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So you think only brave men were on the battlefield.... even though they had no choice for the most part to be there?
 
Paco Dennis said:
How do you identify masculinity?


Traditional Standards Of Masculinity and Being a Man
  1. Being perceived as “weak” due to crying or showing fear.
  2. Emphasis on physical strength.
  3. Professional Success.
  4. Being the “breadwinner” of the family.
  5. Exerting dominance in relationships.
  6. Being assertive.
I think I lost mine about 30 years ago. :)
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If—
BY RUDYARD KIPLING

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream—and not make dreams your master;
If you can think—and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build ’em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: ‘Hold on!’

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings—nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!
 

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