Farmer found not guilty in shooting

Aunt Bea said:
I agree with others that the article does not provide much information.

Where I live the law would require the farmer to stay in a safe place, call the police or flee instead of confronting the criminals and attempting to protect his property.

I grew up around long guns and it is odd to me that the weapon discharged by accident at exactly the moment and in the right position to kill the young man.

I'm not sure if race was a factor, that calls for the operation of the farmer's mind.

On the other side of the coin, those young men had no good reason to be on that farmers property or to be borrowing the farmer's ATV.

Based on the information provided in the article I would acquit the farmer.
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I'm assuming Mount Pilot is in the Carolinas. North Carolina is a Stand Your Ground state. So is South Carolina.
 

All I know is that in the world of self-defense you NEVER give a warning shot. A gun's only fuction is to kill - you don't waste ammo and you don't give a warning.
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But then, that's for a REAL threat - not a bunch of joyriding kids.
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The judge stated that the farmer was well within his rights to fire the warning shots. You can't own a handgun in Canada for self defense. And you are stretching it when you claim these were joyriding kids.



Yes, I know - "his gun just went off". Uh-huh. Guns don't "just go off" unless (A) they are modified, or (B) your finger is on the trigger, instead of on the guard as it should be.
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The defense was that it was a hang fire due to old ammunition. A distorted casing was found in the vehicle.

The farmer claimed he didn't have his finger on the trigger, he was reaching in to shut off the car. The angle of the bullet was downward.



And I would expect a writer to present their sources.
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In this case there are so many sources I wouldn't know where to start. Just google Farmer found not guilty in Saskatchewan. You will have enough sources to satisfy all your questions.



Country seems to have everything to do with it. You believe a person can't know what is going on outside their door in their own country.
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Of course. That's common everywhere. You have to live in a city where the crimes are taking place by a minority of the population to experience it.

Here is a source for the whole trial if you are interested.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatoon/full-coverage-of-gerald-stanley-trial-1.4514538
 
Hoot N Annie said:
I'm assuming Mount Pilot is in the Carolinas. North Carolina is a Stand Your Ground state. So is South Carolina.
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Mount Pilot is a fictional place, I live in New York.

In New York you can use deadly force if the assailant is armed. if your life is in imminent danger and most importantly if you cannot safely avoid or neutralize the situation.
 
Camper6 said:
The judge stated that the farmer was well within his rights to fire the warning shots. You can't own a handgun in Canada for self defense. And you are stretching it when you claim these were joyriding kids.
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Yet one of the stories you pointed me to (thank you for that) claims that it was a Tokarev handgun, NOT a rifle. They even have a picture of it.

I'm confused.

I'm not sure I'm "stretching it", but that's your opinion and you're welcome to it..

The defense was that it was a hang fire due to old ammunition. A distorted casing was found in the vehicle.
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The farmer claimed he didn't have his finger on the trigger, he was reaching in to shut off the car. The angle of the bullet was downward.
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The defense lawyer called it a "hangfire", but that means that he had pulled the trigger a second or two before the gun finally went off.

And hangfires in modern pistols are VERY rare.
 
SifuPhil said:
Yet one of the stories you pointed me to (thank you for that) claims that it was a Tokarev handgun, NOT a rifle. They even have a picture of it.

I'm confused.

I'm not sure I'm "stretching it", but that's your opinion and you're welcome to it..





The defense lawyer called it a "hangfire", but that means that he had pulled the trigger a second or two before the gun finally went off.

And hangfires in modern pistols are VERY rare.
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They may be rare but they do happen. This pistol is not modern and the ammunition was very old. A distorted shell casing was found in the car.

So that's what the jury believed. One of the people in the car was called for witness duty. She didn't show up. She never got to testify.

Whose fault is that?

Anyway. Nothing is going to change him coming back from the dead. But perhaps lessons have been learned to prevent similar incidents in the future.

These were not kids out for a joyride. They were drunk adults and should have been more responsible for their actions.
 
Late teens to early 20's is, to me, still kids.

Maybe because I'm so damned old. :rolleyes:

He has a special permit for the gun and underwent safety training. Guess it didn't stick in his mind.

So yes, it could have been an accident, but one that was easily preventable.
 
Aunt Bea said:
Mount Pilot is a fictional place, I live in New York.

In New York you can use deadly force if the assailant is armed. if your life is in imminent danger and most importantly if you cannot safely avoid or neutralize the situation.
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What? Fictional? New York? Mount Pilot was close enough to Mayberry (which was in the Carolinas) for Andy and friends to visit all the time. :confused:
 
I agree with Sifu Phil that the story that the gun accidentally went off and just happened to kill someone is extremely dubious.

It sounds like a case of "manslaughter" to be, which I believe means killing someone but not particularly trying to do so. I'm sure there's a better legal definition than that.

If the guy believed his wife had been run over, wouldn't he rush over to her, instead of proving how macho he was with his gun?

In this country, I do believe that he was in his legal rights to shoot someone trespassing on his property and committing a crime. But I don't think that includes just shooting at random anyone who turns up on your
property. You probably have to consider yourself or someone on your property in immediate danger. Otherwise, anyone could just shoot anyone who rings their doorbell.
 
SifuPhil said:
Late teens to early 20's is, to me, still kids.

Maybe because I'm so damned old. :rolleyes:

He has a special permit for the gun and underwent safety training. Guess it didn't stick in his mind.

So yes, it could have been an accident, but one that was easily preventable.
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You can second guess the jury all you like. It's not going to change anything. The guy is dead and not coming back and all this talk now is seeking revenge.

The jury believed what happened was not intentional and so do I.

The family was quite happy with the jury selection until they lost.

Still kids huh? When do you grow up? They were up to no good. That was easily preventable.
 
SifuPhil said:
Late teens to early 20's is, to me, still kids.

Maybe because I'm so damned old. :rolleyes:

He has a special permit for the gun and underwent safety training. Guess it didn't stick in his mind.

So yes, it could have been an accident, but one that was easily preventable.
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Best prevention would have been to not be there, not run into the wife's vehicle, not try to run over the son. A firearms expert testified about the shell casing and why ammunition that was 60 years old could hang fire. I don't see this any differently than a police officer having a split second to do something to save a life.

There was no intent. A reaction to what was taking place and fear of harm to his family IMO favors the farmer as not guilty.
 
SifuPhil said:
There's actually a town called "Pilot Mountain" in NC. :D

Some people insist this is what they were referring to in The Andy Griffith Show.
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The first clue is the username "Aunt Bea." :D

,
First_Episode_Aunt_Bee_10101.JPG
 
Sunny said:
I agree with Sifu Phil that the story that the gun accidentally went off and just happened to kill someone is extremely dubious.

It sounds like a case of "manslaughter" to be, which I believe means killing someone but not particularly trying to do so. I'm sure there's a better legal definition than that.

If the guy believed his wife had been run over, wouldn't he rush over to her, instead of proving how macho he was with his gun?

In this country, I do believe that he was in his legal rights to shoot someone trespassing on his property and committing a crime. But I don't think that includes just shooting at random anyone who turns up on your
property. You probably have to consider yourself or someone on your property in immediate danger. Otherwise, anyone could just shoot anyone who rings their doorbell.
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They are lucky they were in Canada. In the U.S. they might have all been shot depending on the State.

The guy trying to steal the ATM and claiming he wasn't trying to steal it? Definitely?
 
Tough call without more information. However, this is not a black and white case, either. (That remark has no reference to race.) With the farmer’s confession, I would have thought some type of penalty was in order, if just a fine for carelessly handling a weapon, which my be considered a misdemeanor in this state, depending on the degree of the charge.
 
911 said:
Tough call without more information. However, this is not a black and white case, either. (That remark has no reference to race.) With the farmer’s confession, I would have thought some type of penalty was in order, if just a fine for carelessly handling a weapon, which my be considered a misdemeanor in this state, depending on the degree of the charge.
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This is a transcript of the judge's instructions to the jury.

It's very long.

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada...n-boushie-jury-put-yourself-in-a-jurors-shoes
 

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