Florida’s Stand Your Ground Law

Pappy said:
The courts aren’t working Jules. It’s like a rotation system. Bring them up on charges, fine them and they go right back out into society.
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Really, Pappy? So then, who are all those multitudes residing in our prisons? Actors hired by central casting?
 

fmdog44 said:
No one has the right to cause another person financial ruin. To me it is trespassing for one and in terms of finance it is in effect robbing another person so as rgp has stated above loot at your own risk.
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fmdog, who said it is all right to cause another person financial ruin? Looting is a crime; it is either a misdemeanor or a felony, depending on the value of what is stolen.

There is a big difference between law enforcement (arrest, trial, possibly prison) and execution by some self-appointed vigilante.

Can you really not see that?
 
Pepper said:
I'm ashamed of the following fact which obviously is the wrong answer to our problems:
In September 2013, the incarceration rate of the United States of America was the highest in the world at 716 per 100,000 of the national population. While the United States represents about 4.4 percent of the world's population, it houses around 22 percent of the world's prisoners. wikpedia
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Thanks to the idiotic "war on drugs." I had a high school friend get into hard stuff. He was once sent back to jail for violating parole by....go figure... using again.

Edit to add that the penal system has become a lucrative industry in the US.
 

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Pappy said:
The courts aren’t working Jules. It’s like a rotation system. Bring them up on charges, fine them and they go right back out into society.
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That's a fairly recent development in some areas. Lots of factors, I think. It's partly backed by deliberate political funding by 'kingmakers' of judges specifically picked for a record of leniency regardless of they type of crimes committed (why, I cannot fathom since it's destroying cities), some places overcrowding and also a backlash against the filling of cells with nonviolent offenders thanks to the failed "war on drugs."
 
Pull up the Korean Business in the LA riots, where they armed themselves to protect their live hood.


Living in the country is different that urban dewelling. You come out here acting stupid, you'll be dead.
 
Now for prisons-the most archaic, the most useless the total waste of a million man and women.

Chain gangs, prisoners would love to be on a chain gang-living within the 'walls' makes people crazy, violent and hopeless.
(The days of 'Cool Hand Luke' are long past. We do not whip, beat prisoners: the prisoners do a pretty good job of that themselves.)


Prisons have their role, a clearly defined role,
The culprit is The Criminal Justice System

We, the people are responsible for our screwed up Justice System
The Criminal Justice system has three parts:
1. Kill him
2. Lock him away where he will not be a threat to 'US'
3. Send him back to the streets, he is not guilty (Note courts have no ability to find a person 'innocent,' it is guilty or not guilty.)
 
Sunny said:
Really, Pappy? So then, who are all those multitudes residing in our prisons? Actors hired by central casting?
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Of course not Sunny. Sarcasm noted: Here in Florida, Sunny, it is a rotation system. So many petty crimes and drugs that it doesn’t work to lock them up. Granted, the bigger crimes are subject to trail, but it can take months before the perp is brought to trail. Out on bond, free to commit more crime..it is a vicious cycle.
 
DaveA said:
If I came across someone looting a store, what would I shoot them with. I've said before, I own a couple of guns (so don't mix me in with non-gun owners) but never carry them about in my daily activities. Some folks must live in terrible areas to have the need to be constantly "on the alert" in order to ward off attackers.
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I hear ya
I carried quite a bit when living in the mountains
Never knew who/what might come up

But, in town?
Why?
Who ya gonna shoot?
Looters?
Rioters?
You'll be the problem

Now, if some poor soul breaks into my place, well,
I have many ways of convincing them they made a mistake without drawing a weapon

...if they're armed?
They're goin' down
No hesitation
 
AnnieA said:
Thanks to the idiotic "war on drugs." I had a high school friend get into hard stuff. He was once sent back to jail for violating parole by....go figure... using again.

Edit to add that the penal system has become a lucrative industry in the US.
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You make a good point, Annie. If your old friend had been swilling down alcohol, he'd have been OK. If he'd been jailed for some unrelated infraction, and been paroled, he'd have probably been back on the booze in short order. It's time that they treated both weaknesses in the same manner. They're both mind-altering activities.

And the rise of private prison facilities, much favored in some states, has increased the need for having a "full house" at all times to guarantee profitability.

+
 
 
One thing I am unclear about in the proposed law:

Is it proposed that only the owner/renter, whatever, of a property be allowed to shoot looters on his property/store, etc.?

OR is it proposed that anybody just walking down the street is empowered to shoot at alleged looters on someone else's property?

The first one I don't have much problem with -- defense of one's own life/property and so on. Variations of this are legal in most states already.

The second one I have a HUGE problem with. Vigilante justice is basically all that it is, and it leaves open the possibility for huge mistakes, willful abuses, gang violence and premeditated murder, including the willful killing of people simply based on skin color or other racial or ethnic or religious hatreds.

AND what's the definition of looting, anyway -- anything one doesn't like that takes place during a riot or insurrection or peaceful demonstration? Or just ordinary life where you see someone possibly breaking into a random home and assume it is looting and is actually some poor guy who is trying to get into his own home because he has forgotten his keys. Or trying to get into a friend or relative's home because he fears/knows they are ill and cannot get to the door. Does the person shot have to be in possession of "loot," or just a person standing around where you don't think they should be?

It's an absolutely terrible idea.
 
Butterfly said:
One thing I am unclear about in the proposed law:

Is it proposed that only the owner/renter, whatever, of a property be allowed to shoot looters on his property/store, etc.?

OR is it proposed that anybody just walking down the street is empowered to shoot at alleged looters on someone else's property?

The first one I don't have much problem with -- defense of one's own life/property and so on. Variations of this are legal in most states already.

The second one I have a HUGE problem with. Vigilante justice is basically all that it is, and it leaves open the possibility for huge mistakes, willful abuses, gang violence and premeditated murder, including the willful killing of people simply based on skin color or other racial or ethnic or religious hatreds.

AND what's the definition of looting, anyway -- anything one doesn't like that takes place during a riot or insurrection or peaceful demonstration? Or just ordinary life where you see someone possibly breaking into a random home and assume it is looting and is actually some poor guy who is trying to get into his own home because he has forgotten his keys. Or trying to get into a friend or relative's home because he fears/knows they are ill and cannot get to the door. Does the person shot have to be in possession of "loot," or just a person standing around where you don't think they should be?

It's an absolutely terrible idea.
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Too much wiggle room for a mistake.
 
Butterfly said:
One thing I am unclear about in the proposed law:

Is it proposed that only the owner/renter, whatever, of a property be allowed to shoot looters on his property/store, etc.?

OR is it proposed that anybody just walking down the street is empowered to shoot at alleged looters on someone else's property?

The first one I don't have much problem with -- defense of one's own life/property and so on. Variations of this are legal in most states already.

The second one I have a HUGE problem with. Vigilante justice is basically all that it is, and it leaves open the possibility for huge mistakes, willful abuses, gang violence and premeditated murder, including the willful killing of people simply based on skin color or other racial or ethnic or religious hatreds.

AND what's the definition of looting, anyway -- anything one doesn't like that takes place during a riot or insurrection or peaceful demonstration? Or just ordinary life where you see someone possibly breaking into a random home and assume it is looting and is actually some poor guy who is trying to get into his own home because he has forgotten his keys. Or trying to get into a friend or relative's home because he fears/knows they are ill and cannot get to the door. Does the person shot have to be in possession of "loot," or just a person standing around where you don't think they should be?

It's an absolutely terrible idea.
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The proposed bill encompasses the entry you posted that I bolded.

A "sport" if you will.
 
Not in favor of this law and hopefully, Florida’s legislature won’t pass it. We haven’t sold our house down there yet, but have had several bids. I purposely set the asking price at a ridiculous amount only because I can’t let go.

I do carry my weapon to most places, but I wouldn’t shoot anyone for looting, even if it was my place and I came home and found them in the act. I have insurance, so there wouldn’t be any loss.
 
oldman:
In your house, you have no way of knowing their intent.
If their inside your house they have crossed the line, you are not going to have a dialogue with these people.
"What are you doing here?"
Nope, time to pop a few rounds.
 
jerry old said:
oldman:
In your house, you have no way of knowing their intent.
If their inside your house they have crossed the line, you are not going to have a dialogue with these people.
"What are you doing here?"
Nope, time to pop a few rounds.
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If I saw someone in my home upon my return from wherever and I saw them carrying stuff out, I would drive down the street and call for help. I’m not worrying about losing stuff. It can be replaced or the insurance will reimburse me.

If I didn’t know they were inside until I got to the door or inside, I would draw my weapon from my holster and go from there. I would do whatever I had to in order to keep my wife and I safe.

I had enough of killing and still feel regretful that I had to do what I did. Some people out there have no problem killing another person. Ending someone’s life should be avoided, if possible. I’m not a goody-two-shoes, but I’m not going to not take care of business, either
 
oldman said:
Not in favor of this law and hopefully, Florida’s legislature won’t pass it. We haven’t sold our house down there yet, but have had several bids. I purposely set the asking price at a ridiculous amount only because I can’t let go.

I do carry my weapon to most places, but I wouldn’t shoot anyone for looting, even if it was my place and I came home and found them in the act. I have insurance, so there wouldn’t be any loss.
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You're my kind of people, Oldman. :)
 
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911 said:
So now, Florida’s Governor would like to expand their SYGL to include looters. I never knew this was an issue in Florida, but maybe they are trying to make sure it never becomes a problem.

The essence of the law would be that if anyone witnessed a store or similar business being looted, they may shoot the looters. If passed, this may be looked at as Vigilante Justice.

Good idea or bad idea?
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Total insanity. Killing people to protect property, for crying out loud. I'm sure the vigilante minded folks are drooling at the opportunity to take out somebody.
 

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