George Floyd was a victim

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You are right of course, but if we're to be governed by laws and a justice system, even a flawed system, rather than mob rule, you can't have the officer denied a trial even if his victim didn't get the same.:( .
I didn't suggest he should be denied a trial. I think along with most you recognized George Floyd was a victim. So there will be a trial & hopefully a jury of his peers can be chosen that aren't biased about why he is on trial.
 

Well .... I disagree completely. He involved himself in a criminal activity, he encountered the police ..... he died as a result . Had he not involved himself in that criminal activity ......... he would likely still be alive.
That's not how law and order, civilization or just plain fairness is supposed to play out. If he was involved in a nonviolent crime, the outcome should have been an arrest. Not being knee-choked. If you had a grandson who shoplifted --also a non-violent crime --would it be okay for a cop to knee-choke him? or would it be better for you and for our society if the cop simply arrested him, have him charged and let justice play out as it will? Right.
 
That's not how law and order, civilization or just plain fairness is supposed to play out. If he was involved in a nonviolent crime, the outcome should have been an arrest. Not being knee-choked. If you had a grandson who shoplifted --also a non-violent crime --would it be okay for a cop to knee-choke him? or would it be better for you and for our society if the cop simply arrested him, have him charged and let justice play out as it will? Right.

It is exactly how law & order are supposed to play out. Just that in this case something went all wrong. As yet, i place no blame, except to add that from a toxicology stand point Mr Floyd was not in the best of health, and IMO that added to his demise.

It cannot be said enough .... do not commit crime, and one will likely never engage with the police in a negative manner.

If I had a grandson, and he shoplifted? He would have to face the consequences just like everyone else.
 

You are right of course, but if we're to be governed by laws and a justice system, even a flawed system, rather than mob rule, you can't have the officer denied a trial even if his victim didn't get the same.:( .

I didn't hear anybody, myself included, saying that officer should not get a fair trial. Of course he is entitled to a fair trial, in which jurors will judge his actions according to the law and the evidence.
 
Just a random thought from left field.

My nation was founded on the sweat of petty criminals like George Floyd. Some of them went on to be very useful citizens when given a chance and a new start. Apparently I am descended from some of them. This news came as a surprise because, apart from one who deserted from the Royal Navy in 1872, we always believed that our ancestors were all law abiding and respectable free settlers.

Perhaps we should all dig into our ancestry before deciding that petty crime should be dealt with by summary execution.
 
I didn't hear anybody, myself included, saying that officer should not get a fair trial. Of course he is entitled to a fair trial, in which jurors will judge his actions according to the law and the evidence.
That's fine then, I must have mistakenly read, "George Floyd didn't get a trial" to mean we should all assume guilt before the trial, without seeing all the evidence available. Don't forget I'm saying that, whilst still suspecting there is more damning stuff to come out about a possible vendetta, as anyone of those officers could have restrained the man on the floor, (if they'd deemed it necessary, but the one doing so was the officer who knew him). :unsure: .
 
That's fine then, I must have mistakenly read, "George Floyd didn't get a trial" to mean we should all assume guilt before the trial, without seeing all the evidence available. Don't forget I'm saying that, whilst still suspecting there is more damning stuff to come out about a possible vendetta, as anyone of those officers could have restrained the man on the floor, (if they'd deemed it necessary, but the one doing so was the officer who knew him). :unsure: .
Again, Floyd was already restrained before the officers murdered him. You don't know that he was already handcuffed??
 
Apparently it is George Orwell's birthday on June 25. I saw him trending on Twitter and my attention was drawn to this graphic.



I won't offer an explanation because there are several ways that those amended rules can be interpreted, both as the level of individuals and also by certain systems of government. Orwell was actually writing about the Communist Party in Russia when he wrote Animal Farm but I can see a connection to George Floyd's fate as well.
 
Again, Floyd was already restrained before the officers murdered him. You don't know that he was already handcuffed??
No, I knew that, and is it true he was not only handcuffed but in the squad car, before being taken out and placed on the floor, (it has set me thinking of something the officer might claim in his defence, youre raising tge question, but won't share it right now, because we've all speculated too much already in my view). :censored: .
 
That's fine then, I must have mistakenly read, "George Floyd didn't get a trial" to mean we should all assume guilt before the trial, without seeing all the evidence available. Don't forget I'm saying that, whilst still suspecting there is more damning stuff to come out about a possible vendetta, as anyone of those officers could have restrained the man on the floor, (if they'd deemed it necessary, but the one doing so was the officer who knew him). :unsure: .
You weren't mistaken. George Floyd didn't get a trial he was killed before he was even put in a police car. To help understand what took place there are two videos.

1st. video George Floyd was sitting in his car with two other people. Two officers came from a police car parked across the street from Floyd. Same video the friends exit the video then Floyd does, is HANDCUFFED with his hands behind him and told to sit on the curb which he does.

2nd. video Floyd still handcuffed face down in the street with one officer kneeling on his neck & back another on his lower torso. Two others standing apart watching.

Floyd was not capable of resisting arrest nor did he since in video #1. he was already subdued. Floyd's health, working with the officer that killed him, prior criminal history are points that people toss in for hypotheticals & what if's.
 
Floyd was not capable of resisting arrest nor did he since in video #1. he was already subdued. Floyd's health, working with the officer that killed him, prior criminal history are points that people toss in for hypotheticals & what if's.

Amazing, isn't it, how adept some people are at creating and tossing around red herrings, to deflect attention from "inconvenient truths?"
 
I think it's pretty much a guarantee that if you cut off a person's blood/oxygen to his brain for 8+ minutes, the person is going to die. That cop had training and he knew that.

He didn't do it to restrain Mr. Floyd, who was already restrained and face down on the ground with his hands handcuffed behind him.
This is what puzzles me. I have been to several self-defense courses and I never saw the technique taught or even demonstrated at any of them. I have no idea where he learned the knee to the neck mechanic. Maybe he took some personal training in martial arts and it was taught there. I just don't know. I had another Trooper tell me that the move was on Minneapolis police's approved list of self-defense techniques. If that's so, I would imagine that the policeman's defense will raise the issue, but there was no justification for it from my viewpoint. The man was controlled, cuffed and on the ground. Game over!
 
This is only on a side note, but I don't think most people could tell the difference between real and counterfeit even if they looked. Perhaps that's why some stores in this area have little machines to determine whether large bills are fake or real.
Store clerks are taught how to tell the difference. By holding them to a light, you should see a watermark. Also, different denominations will turn different colors around the edges. Who cares anyway? Most larger stores carry insurance against accepting counterfeit bills. I have never seen a clerk check for a counterfeit bill unless a notice has gone out to be on the lookout for counterfeit $20 bills, or whatever other denomination.
 
I think the vendetta thing is a bit out there, but I don't think it matters. Chauvin stayed on Mr. Floyd's neck till long after he quit moving or crying out or breathing. That's murder,any way you slice it.

I think Chauvin has a problem with black men in general, and in particular, those who challenge his authority in any way. I hope Chauvin enjoys his time in prison; he earned every minute of it.
I think he should hire a food-taster.
 
Only if you believe in an eye for an eye or a tooth for a tooth. George Floyd was denied the fairness of the justice system.
Do you honestly believe that Derek Chauvin will get a fair trial? I don't see how. He's already been convicted and sentenced by the media and so many others. Unless other facts are brought forth at his trial, if there even is one, I would say based on what we know now, his goose is cooked.

If I was in his shoes, I would try to have my attorney get me a good deal. But, even so, if he would be lucky enough to get a great deal, like maybe involuntary murder, there's still the Feds that are waiting for him for Round 2. Civil Rights trial usually haven't gone so well for the defendants.
 
Do you honestly believe that Derek Chauvin will get a fair trial?

It's possible that a bench trial for Derek Chauvin will be what he & his lawyers will ask for. The videos tell a story, the fact that the counterfeit $20.00 bill was caught by a money counting machine & not physically looked at and immediately flagged is IMO important.

On the other side if George Floyd actually made it to court more than likely for a $20.00 bill Floyd would have pleaded not guilty before a judge. The judge would weigh, not resisting arrest, not fleeing the place where the $20.00 was passed & the clerk not recognizing the bill as fake. The judge can look at what Floyd was alleged to have done & what took place. No real evidence that Floyd passed the bill.

I can almost hear the gavel now. Case dismissed your free to go. Next case on the docket.
 
This is what puzzles me. I have been to several self-defense courses and I never saw the technique taught or even demonstrated at any of them. I have no idea where he learned the knee to the neck mechanic. Maybe he took some personal training in martial arts and it was taught there. I just don't know. I had another Trooper tell me that the move was on Minneapolis police's approved list of self-defense techniques. If that's so, I would imagine that the policeman's defense will raise the issue, but there was no justification for it from my viewpoint. The man was controlled, cuffed and on the ground. Game over!

The following was reported by CNN on June 24:

Minneapolis Police Chief Medaria Arradondo says the death of George Floyd was "murder" and that the officer who was seen pressing his knee into Floyd's neck "knew what he was doing" because he had taken specific training on preventing "positional asphyxiation," or suffocation.

"Mr. George Floyd's tragic death was not due to a lack of training -- the training was there. Chauvin knew what he was doing," Arradondo said in a statement.
"The officers knew what was happening -- one intentionally caused it and the others failed to prevent it. This was murder -- it wasn't a lack of training," Arradondo said.
Four weeks after George Floyd's death, an embattled police union finally speaks out

Four weeks after George Floyd's death, an embattled police union finally speaks out

Derek Chauvin and Tou Thao, two of the officers involved in the death of George Floyd, both received department training on preventing "positional asphyxiation," or suffocation, in people being restrained in a prone position or face down, the Minneapolis Police Department confirmed to CNN on Wednesday.

Arradondo released the statement late Tuesday night in response to training records questions and a data request from the Star Tribune about whether the Minneapolis Police Department fulfilled a promise in a 2013 settlement to require all sworn officers to undergo training on the dangers of positional asphyxiation.

Chief Arradondo said in the statement that the Minneapolis Police Department "went beyond the requirements" of the settlement.

It not only provided the training, but changed its policies in June 2014 to "explicitly require moving an arrestee from a prone position to a recovery position when the maximal restraint technique is used and require continuous monitoring of an arrestee's condition."
 
He should face a firing squad. He would suffer far less than his victim.
And I'd be more-than-happy to donate all needed supplies.
You'll force me into further speculation if you're not careful, but at least you'll have saved yourself from appearing in the jury, should your name to on the provisional list, by the post above. :oops: .
 
You'll force me into further speculation if you're not careful, but at least you'll have saved yourself from appearing in the jury, should your name to on the provisional list, by the post above. :oops: .
:) I don't have to be concerned about serving on a jury. I find our justice system pathetic & I've already let them know it many times. There is no way I'd ever participate in something I consider to be so corrupt & useless.
They did try to force me to serve several years ago, even threatening me with arrest. I LOL'd & told them "You have my address. Come & get me." They didn't push it.
 
I won’t due dury duty either but I’ve got doctors notes that eliminate my need to participate and even if I didn’t I just wouldn’t do it. I don’t care which case it is.
 
I've served once on a jury, and was very impressed by the fairness of the trial. The guy was obviously guilty, and it took us less than half an hour to reach that verdict, as he didn't have any plausible excuse for what he did.

After the trial was over, the prosecutor and the defense attorney briefly met with the jury to ask what factors weighed into our decision. They seemed very interested in hearing about our thought process.

I don't expect to every again be asked to serve on a jury, but wouldn't hesitate to do so if asked.
 

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