God has a plan. An observation and a question.

squatting dog said:
Does God have a plan? Of course he does.

Me: Hey God.
God: Hello, my love.
Me: I'm falling apart. Can you put me back together?
God: I would rather not.
Me: Why?
God: Because you aren't a puzzle.
Me: What about all of the pieces of my life that are falling down onto the ground?
God: Let them stay there for a while. They fell off for a reason. Take some time and decide if you need any of those pieces back.
Me: You don't understand! I'm breaking down!
God: No - you don't understand. You are breaking through. What you are feeling are just growing pains. You are shedding the things and the people in your life that are holding you back. You aren't falling apart. You are falling into place. Relax. Take some deep breaths and allow those things you don't need anymore to fall off of you. Quit holding onto the pieces that don't fit you anymore. Let them fall off.
Let them go.
Me: Once I start doing that, what will be left of me?
God: Only the very best pieces of you.
Me: I'm scared of changing.
God: I keep telling you - YOU AREN'T CHANGING!! YOU ARE BECOMING!
Me: Becoming who?
God: Becoming who I created you to be! A person of light and love and charity and hope and courage and joy and mercy and grace and compassion. I made you for more than the shallow pieces you have decided adorn yourself with that you cling to with such greed and fear.
Let those things fall off of you. I love you! Don't change! Become! Become! Become! Become who I made you to be. I'm going to keep telling you this until you remember it.
Me: There goes another piece.
God: Yep. Let it be.
Me: So...I'm not broken?
God: No - but you are breaking like the dawn. It's a new day. Become!! Become!!
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Great parable. As with all parables, some will find it meaningful, some will be derisive and a few will find it relevant and helpful to their present circumstance.
 

ElCastor said:
Not necessarily. Try Googling “We live in a simulation”. You will get a lot of hits.
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Googled that & think rather than scientific fact based articles what I saw were opinions.

If the box creation analogy isn't understood & people believe a sentient being billions of years old residing behind gold doors outside of what was supposedly created by that sentient being that makes life plans. How that could be for billions of humans past & present is interesting to me. Why life is crappy for some & not for others even more interesting.
 
Gold doors?

You should try bee keeping, Knight. Notice how a sentient being of much greater intelligence can plan for and control another being's entire world.
 

Della said:
Gold doors?

You should try bee keeping, Knight. Notice how a sentient being of much greater intelligence can plan for and control another being's entire world.
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Bee keeping probably better than not knowing the doors were made of pearl, it 's the streets that are gold.

Revelation 21:21 ESV
And the twelve gates were twelve pearls, each of the gates made of a single pearl, and the street of the city was pure gold, transparent as glass.

Must be one awesome city to house billions that have died & yet to die.
 
Me: excuse me, is there a God here?
Me: anybody ? I've been told to ask for someone called God.
Person: Sorry, can't help you with that one..
Person 2: Who are you looking for ?
Me: God
Person 2: God ? there was some guy turned up years ago. Full of great plans and schemes...
Me: What happened him?
Person 2: People eventually got fed up with him when he didn't come up with the good and told him to clear off..
Person 1: (nods in agreement) - yea, I remember. Don't know what anyone ever saw in him?
Me: well thanks anyway
Person 1: can we help?
Me: I doubt it, you see, I'm falling apart.
Persons 1&2 : Why didn't you say. We humans must help each other. Care to join us for a drink?
 
Knight said:
Bee keeping probably better than not knowing the doors were made of pearl, it 's the streets that are gold.

Revelation 21:21 ESV
And the twelve gates were twelve pearls, each of the gates made of a single pearl, and the street of the city was pure gold, transparent as glass.

Must be one awesome city to house billions that have died & yet to die.
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My pastor taught us that Revelation was a dream someone (probably John) had about the destruction of "the beast" (Rome.) The book of Revelation was originally not added to the Bible and I sure wish they hadn't decided to tack it on. Without it most of the cult leaders like David Koresh wouldn't have anything to use for their start-ups.
 
Della you seem to know about religion so out of curiosity I pose questions about how things could be. I question but don't get very good responses or at least a response that makes sense to me.

This "plan" thread is a good example. In order for there to be a heaven that people go to and a "creator" created it. The creator has to be someplace other than inside the heavens that were created. That would be the place where the "plan" is made right. When I question where the creator is outside the now even larger expanse of space I get nothing. So I'll give up on that.


Something not questioned & most if not all with blind faith believe is. They will be reunited with their departed loved one. The would mean that they would have to be sentient to recognize them. So I question.

If the expectation is to reunite with loved ones How does that work? If from the beginning of "creation" all loved ones are reunited do they form a group?

Examples.

Polish and all the Polish that have died without mixing with other nationalities.
Greeks and all the Greeks that have died without mixing with other nationalities.
Germans and all the Germans that have died without mixing with other nationalities.

Toss in all the rest & where do they all meet & greet. Would they automatically understand each other?
 
Knight said:
Della you seem to know about religion so out of curiosity I pose questions about how things could be. I question but don't get very good responses or at least a response that makes sense to me.

This "plan" thread is a good example. In order for there to be a heaven that people go to and a "creator" created it. The creator has to be someplace other than inside the heavens that were created. That would be the place where the "plan" is made right. When I question where the creator is outside the now even larger expanse of space I get nothing. So I'll give up on that.


Something not questioned & most if not all with blind faith believe is. They will be reunited with their departed loved one. The would mean that they would have to be sentient to recognize them. So I question.

If the expectation is to reunite with loved ones How does that work? If from the beginning of "creation" all loved ones are reunited do they form a group?

Examples.

Polish and all the Polish that have died without mixing with other nationalities.
Greeks and all the Greeks that have died without mixing with other nationalities.
Germans and all the Germans that have died without mixing with other nationalities.

Toss in all the rest & where do they all meet & greet. Would they automatically understand each other?
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I'm not quite understanding what you mean here. "Loved ones" I interpret as family and friends so of course language would be common and we would understand each other. Wouldn't we?
 
Since we are born with free will, I believe we are masters of our own fate. Plans come and go. Some are good others not. We handle what we can with as much grace as possible. Varies from person to person and time to time.
 
Knight said:
Della you seem to know about religion so out of curiosity I pose questions about how things could be. I question but don't get very good responses or at least a response that makes sense to me.

This "plan" thread is a good example. In order for there to be a heaven that people go to and a "creator" created it. The creator has to be someplace other than inside the heavens that were created. That would be the place where the "plan" is made right. When I question where the creator is outside the now even larger expanse of space I get nothing. So I'll give up on that.


Something not questioned & most if not all with blind faith believe is. They will be reunited with their departed loved one. The would mean that they would have to be sentient to recognize them. So I question.

If the expectation is to reunite with loved ones How does that work? If from the beginning of "creation" all loved ones are reunited do they form a group?

Examples.

Polish and all the Polish that have died without mixing with other nationalities.
Greeks and all the Greeks that have died without mixing with other nationalities.
Germans and all the Germans that have died without mixing with other nationalities.

Toss in all the rest & where do they all meet & greet. Would they automatically understand each other?
Click to expand...
Perhaps the ticket to heaven includes the insertion of a babel fish:

"The Babel fish is small, yellow, leech-like, and probably the oddest thing in the Universe. It feeds on brainwave energy received not from its own carrier, but from those around it. It absorbs all unconscious mental frequencies from this brainwave energy to nourish itself with. It then excretes into the mind of its carrier a telepathic matrix formed by combining the conscious thought frequencies with nerve signals picked up from the speech centres of the brain which has supplied them. The practical upshot of all this is that if you stick a Babel fish in your ear you can instantly understand anything said to you in any form of language. The speech patterns you actually hear decode the brainwave matrix which has been fed into your mind by your Babel fish. "Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that something so mind-bogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as a final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God.

"The argument goes something like this: 'I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God, 'for proof denies faith, and without faith, I am nothing.' 'But, says Man, the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and, by your own arguments, you don't. QED.' 'Oh dear,' says God, 'I hadn't thought of that,' and vanishes in a puff of logic. 'Oh, that was easy,' says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing."Most leading theologians claim that this argument is a load of dingo's kidneys, but that didn't stop Oolon Colluphid from making a small fortune when he used it as the theme of his best-selling book, Well That About Wraps It Up For God."Meanwhile, the poor Babel fish, by effectively removing all barriers to communication between different races and cultures, has caused more and bloodier wars than anything else in the history of creation."

https://hitchhikers.fandom.com/wiki/Babel_Fish
 
Knight said:
Della you seem to know about religion so out of curiosity I pose questions about how things could be. I question but don't get very good responses or at least a response that makes sense to me.

This "plan" thread is a good example. In order for there to be a heaven that people go to and a "creator" created it. The creator has to be someplace other than inside the heavens that were created. That would be the place where the "plan" is made right. When I question where the creator is outside the now even larger expanse of space I get nothing. So I'll give up on that.


Something not questioned & most if not all with blind faith believe is. They will be reunited with their departed loved one. The would mean that they would have to be sentient to recognize them. So I question.

If the expectation is to reunite with loved ones How does that work? If from the beginning of "creation" all loved ones are reunited do they form a group?

Examples.

Polish and all the Polish that have died without mixing with other nationalities.
Greeks and all the Greeks that have died without mixing with other nationalities.
Germans and all the Germans that have died without mixing with other nationalities.

Toss in all the rest & where do they all meet & greet. Would they automatically understand each other?
Click to expand...
Knight, I only know what I believe which is sort of mainstream protestant stuff. A professional minister would give you much better answers. Even right here on this forum there are lots of people who know much more about this than I do.

I haven't answered your questions about where the creator actually is because, well because I don't know.
I think lots of the world religions believe that the creator is inside the creation with us, that he made it around himself. He is a spirit inside us and we are all one to some degree. Heaven is a state more than a place.

Maybe it will be whatever we want it to be. Some may really want those pearly gates and mansions. My brother wanted it to be like the golf course in Augusta Georgia. I hope he has that.

I think the loved ones who we are most wanting to meet when we die will come forward to meet us and help us make it into this other dimension. Problems like language differences wont exist we will just understand each other.

Who knows? I wonder about whether all my dogs will get along! And what about the two men I've been married to! I love them both! The Bible tells us there is no marriage in heaven so we will all just love each other in a platonic way.

I think it will all be fine. We will enter a different space where our understanding and love for each other will be far beyond what we know and feel now:

1 Corinthians 13:12:




For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.​

 
Knight said:
I question but don't get very good responses or at least a response that makes sense to me.

This "plan" thread is a good example. In order for there to be a heaven that people go to and a "creator" created it. The creator has to be someplace other than inside the heavens that were created. That would be the place where the "plan" is made right. When I question where the creator is outside the now even larger expanse of space I get nothing. So I'll give up on that.
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Yeah, omnipresence is beyond me

Heh, I can't even wrap my mind around no beginning
No end, I kinda grasp
But no beginning?
If I think too hard on that, a single malt can easily come into play
 
Knight said:
Googled that & think rather than scientific fact based articles what I saw were opinions.

If the box creation analogy isn't understood & people believe a sentient being billions of years old residing behind gold doors outside of what was supposedly created by that sentient being that makes life plans. How that could be for billions of humans past & present is interesting to me. Why life is crappy for some & not for others even more interesting.
Click to expand...
And when I read your post I see more opinions. How long has the universe been around? What preceded the Big Bang and how many Big Bangs preceded that? Infinite?? And what preceded those Bangs? What is Dark Matter and how about Dark Energy? Rather than tell the religious among us that you have all the answers, how about just admitting that you don't know and leave it at that?

Here is a dictionary definition of Agnosticism that I just pulled off the Internet with the aid of Google. Works for me.
  1. "The doctrine that certainty about first principles or absolute truth is unattainable and that only perceptual phenomena are objects of exact knowledge."
  2. "The belief that the existence or nonexistence of a deity or deities cannot be known with certainty."
  3. "The doctrines of the agnostics; the doctrine that the ultimate cause and the essential nature of things are unknowable, or at least unknown." Disagree?
 
ElCastor said:
And when I read your post I see more opinions.
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https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/opinion​

Opinion Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster​

https://www.merriam-webster.com › dictionary › opinion



1 : a belief based on experience and on certain facts but not amounting to sure knowledge

Of course my posts are opinions.

Opinion Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Websterhttps://www.merriam-webster.com › dictionary › opinion
1 : a belief based on experience and on certain facts but not amounting to sure knowledge.

Questioning how a being billions of years old can plan the daily lives of billions over the centuries is what forums about religion can generate.

Unless of course you expect all heads to bobble up & down in agreement that there is some sentient being billions of years old somewhere outside the massive universe planning daily lives of everyone that has ever lived, living now & yet to be born.
 
dko1951 said:
Your post is very intriguing. You are obviously well read and have a realistic perspective regarding this thread. I would love to know about some of your reading that has formed and given you this perspective. Would you share some of that with us. I am being genuine in this request. If you would, please respond with a reply, it would be much appreciated.
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My "realistic perspective" is based on my life observations and readings across nearly 77 years, approached objectively and scientifically. An excellent book is "Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind" (it's not really brief) by Yuval Noah Harari, 2015.

From Wiki: "The Anthropocene is a proposed geological epoch dating from the commencement of significant human impact on Earth's geology and ecosystems, including, but not limited to, anthropogenic climate change. This time period coincides with the start of the Great Acceleration, a post-WWII time period during which socioeconomic and Earth system trends increase at a dramatic rate, and the Atomic Age." In other words, homo sapiens is destroying the planet and ourselves in the process. There are a plethora of articles, books, and ongoing studies on this topic.

Thank you for the compliment.
 
spectratg said:
My "realistic perspective" is based on my life observations and readings across nearly 77 years, approached objectively and scientifically. An excellent book is "Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind" (it's not really brief) by Yuval Noah Harari, 2015.

From Wiki: "The Anthropocene is a proposed geological epoch dating from the commencement of significant human impact on Earth's geology and ecosystems, including, but not limited to, anthropogenic climate change. This time period coincides with the start of the Great Acceleration, a post-WWII time period during which socioeconomic and Earth system trends increase at a dramatic rate, and the Atomic Age." In other words, homo sapiens is destroying the planet and ourselves in the process. There are a plethora of articles, books, and ongoing studies on this topic.

Thank you for the compliment.
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Thank you for your response. I look forward to more of your thoughts and scientific based reality.
 
Knight said:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/opinion​

Opinion Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster​

https://www.merriam-webster.com › dictionary › opinion



1 : a belief based on experience and on certain facts but not amounting to sure knowledge

Of course my posts are opinions.

Opinion Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Websterhttps://www.merriam-webster.com › dictionary › opinion
1 : a belief based on experience and on certain facts but not amounting to sure knowledge.

Questioning how a being billions of years old can plan the daily lives of billions over the centuries is what forums about religion can generate.

Unless of course you expect all heads to bobble up & down in agreement that there is some sentient being billions of years old somewhere outside the massive universe planning daily lives of everyone that has ever lived, living now & yet to be born.
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I think you misunderstand my position. Faith in a religion of one sort or another can be traced back to the very origins of humanity and civilization itself. For that reason alone it deserves a degree of respect. For many it is a source of confidence and understanding of our very nature. Would you or I argue with a woman who believed her deceased husband or child would be waiting for her in the Great Hereafter? I certainly would not. I am content to be an agnostic and leave it at that, but you can do as you wish.
 
ElCastor said:
I think you misunderstand my position. Faith in a religion of one sort or another can be traced back to the very origins of humanity and civilization itself. For that reason alone it deserves a degree of respect. For many it is a source of confidence and understanding of our very nature. Would you or I argue with a woman who believed her deceased husband or child would be waiting for her in the Great Hereafter? I certainly would not. I am content to be an agnostic and leave it at that, but you can do as you wish.
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I did misunderstand you. I respect those that have blind faith, but I will post questions & opinion when religion is a topic.

Questioning here in this forum about a person sentient after death & an expectation of rejoining a departed loved one seems resonable to me. Your hypothetical of questioning a woman who believed her husband or child would be waiting for her I wouldn't do.

The expectation to join a loved one & to recognize that loved one would mean being sentient. Given that as a thought process I question how meeting a loved one would take place. Considering over the centuries sentient whatever's would want to join each other.

I question things but obviously don't expect an answer about. All dead husbands & children in this hypothetical. Who would a Greek woman on her 3rd. marriage 1st. time to a Scotsman, 2nd. to a Frenchman 3rd. time to an Italian & with children from each reunite with ?

Or another. Would ethnic rejoin ethnic & create a segregated situation?

Language universal understanding? this changed?
The story of the Tower of Babel explains the origins of the multiplicity of languages. God was concerned that humans had blasphemed by building the tower to avoid a second flood so God brought into existence multiple languages. Thus, humans were divided into linguistic groups, unable to understand one another.
 
chic said:
How do you feel about the title "God has a plan"? And do you think His plan should be shared with us so we could cope better with life's slings and arrows? :unsure:
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In my opinion, it's just one of the numerous expressions people use- some as a misguided attempt at comfort, some as a way to stop individuals from questioning.

I've also heard 'God has a reason for everything,' 'Everything that happens is God's will,' 'God "took" your loved one,' etc.

To be straightforward, I'm glad my own beliefs were solid long before I encountered any of these approaches, so I wasn't swayed by them.
 
ElCastor said:
And when I read your post I see more opinions. How long has the universe been around? What preceded the Big Bang and how many Big Bangs preceded that? Infinite?? And what preceded those Bangs? What is Dark Matter and how about Dark Energy? Rather than tell the religious among us that you have all the answers, how about just admitting that you don't know and leave it at that?

Here is a dictionary definition of Agnosticism that I just pulled off the Internet with the aid of Google. Works for me.
  1. "The doctrine that certainty about first principles or absolute truth is unattainable and that only perceptual phenomena are objects of exact knowledge."
  2. "The belief that the existence or nonexistence of a deity or deities cannot be known with certainty."
  3. "The doctrines of the agnostics; the doctrine that the ultimate cause and the essential nature of things are unknowable, or at least unknown." Disagree?
Click to expand...

Although that dictionary definition of agnosticism seems to make sense at first, it becomes pretty meaningless upon further thought. It can be applied to any fictitious belief. Such as:

The belief that there is a Santa Claus cannot be known with certainty.
The belief that Covid is largely a manufactured fear promulgated by the pharmaceutical companies, and also the belief that the vaccine doesn't make any difference; the truth about this cannot be known with any certainty.
The belief that the earth is not more than 5,000 years old cannot be known with any certainty.
The belief that all those miracles happening exactly as described in the Bible cannot be proved or disproved with any certainty. All we have to go by is common sense, science, and probability.

And so on. Point #3, that the "essential nature of things" is unknowable, or at least unknown, is so vague that it's a meaningless statement. What is an essential nature?
 
ElCastor said:
I think you misunderstand my position. Faith in a religion of one sort or another can be traced back to the very origins of humanity and civilization itself. For that reason alone it deserves a degree of respect. For many it is a source of confidence and understanding of our very nature. Would you or I argue with a woman who believed her deceased husband or child would be waiting for her in the Great Hereafter? I certainly would not. I am content to be an agnostic and leave it at that, but you can do as you wish.
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Neither would I.

A local woman's father died, and logically she was upset. A fundamentalist told her her father was going to hell because he hadn't been 'saved.' :mad:
 
Warrigal said:
Great parable. As with all parables, some will find it meaningful, some will be derisive and a few will find it relevant and helpful to their present circumstance.
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So very true...It is interesting how the same parable can say different things to all of us and even to ourselves depending on our needs...That is also the characteristic of the entire Bible and other great works of art...A great painting says different things to each of us
 
JaniceM said:
In my opinion, it's just one of the numerous expressions people use- some as a misguided attempt at comfort, some as a way to stop individuals from questioning.

I've also heard 'God has a reason for everything,' 'Everything that happens is God's will,' 'God "took" your loved one,' etc.

To be straightforward, I'm glad my own beliefs were solid long before I encountered any of these approaches, so I wasn't swayed by them.
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Yes, I understand and agree with some of this. I do believe in God and His angels. I have had angel encounters and experienced immediate answer to prayer on occasion which I don't believe is arbitrary, but I wish I knew more and why so many devastatingly bad things happen to people. I have trouble with "everything happens for the best", ( it doesn't) and God's plan for me remains a mystery. :unsure:
 
chic said:
Yes, I understand and agree with some of this. I do believe in God and His angels. I have had angel encounters and experienced immediate answer to prayer on occasion which I don't believe is arbitrary, but I wish I knew more and why so many devastatingly bad things happen to people. I have trouble with "everything happens for the best", ( it doesn't) and God's plan for me remains a mystery. :unsure:
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Oh, I forgot that 'everything happens for the best' approach.
And another: His/her 'faith wasn't strong enough.'
Gotta say all of those remarks bug me.

Re: your comment about bad things- I believe God does not control nature, nor free will, and bad things can happen because of natural causes and/or other people's misuse of free will.

Also, I don't believe God has a specific plan for each individual person's life.

I don't know what to make of angels, but I've been reading a lot and trying to learn.
 
The belief in angels is a curious phenomenon of the human mind. Thousands of years ago, a cave man storyteller probably conjured up the idea for one of his stories, listened to around the fire. Later, the idea of a being called an angel, meaning a messenger of God, made its way into the Bible. Angels are not always good and kind; some of them are fierce and terriifying. (Remember the movie Angels in America, with Meryl Streep playing an angel of death, appearing to AIDS victims?)

Wikipedia has a lot on the subject. Angels are mentioned in Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Ba'hai, and other religions. They sometimes have wings, sometimes not. They go by many different names and have many different functions.

But the only ones with actual proof of their existence are the ones in Los Angeles (which is named for them,) who are playing the Mariners tomorrow..
 

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