Boon54
Member
You tagged the post with a sad smiley,Huh? Sad? Where'd that come from? I'm feelin' fine.
. Maybe a typo, lol. Glad you're feeling fine.
God, or not? A Christian Discussion
- Thread starter Boon54
- Start date
. Maybe a typo, lol. Glad you're feeling fine.
Boon54
Member
LOL. Go read the thread on Icelandic Vikings - We Will Rock You. I love it.
Ah - we were back there discussing the diet of the very early Jewish nation as they wandered through the deserts - someone had pointed out it was somewhat sparse - but they were disobeying God heh?? -yes it's all fitting in now!do not drink too much wine and definitely no smoking!
Boon54
Member
Day 8
At this point, we've established that there's a Natural Law that seems to abide in us that kinda helps us differentiate between right and wrong. But life is not so simple and we are not so straightforward. We like to try things out, and if we're not careful, we get ourselves in trouble (like Adam and Eve).
From our point of view, they were just trying something out. Yes, God told them not to do it but it didn't seem like such a big deal to me. However, this often happens with us. We try something out and before you know it, you're an alcoholic, drug addict, porn addict, what have you. In some cases, we die from accidental poisoning, or lung cancer.
So, we need to learn how to navigate this world, do what is right, and avoid getting into trouble we can't get out of. Some of it is pretty straightforward, like learning what kinds of food is poisonous. Others, not quite so.
Many societies evolved or developed moral codes for this purpose. Not so much to help one another but to teach the young 'uns how to live their lives. Almost every society turned to the spiritual realm and taught that aligning ourselves to this spiritual realm was fundamental to developing our moral compass and living our lives as best we can.
Not all attempts came to the same conclusions, however. There were those who advocated enjoying life to the fullest, others the very opposite. In many societies, might was right. If we won a war, we were entitled to loot, pillage and rape. When we quarrelled, we had a fight or a duel to decide who's in the right.
Even today, we are told that we all have our own values and as long as we live peacefully with one another, that's fine. But this kind of personal moral compass have not been very successful. And even though Modern society tends to look with suspicion on religion, there are many who still turn to religion. In treating people struggling with their lives, psychologists often advocate meditation as a way to solve our problems. Even if it means finding a religion to belong to.
It seems that religion is important. That believing in a higher power, call it what you like, is important. So, if we are to believe in God, which God? Does it matter?
At this point, we've established that there's a Natural Law that seems to abide in us that kinda helps us differentiate between right and wrong. But life is not so simple and we are not so straightforward. We like to try things out, and if we're not careful, we get ourselves in trouble (like Adam and Eve).
From our point of view, they were just trying something out. Yes, God told them not to do it but it didn't seem like such a big deal to me. However, this often happens with us. We try something out and before you know it, you're an alcoholic, drug addict, porn addict, what have you. In some cases, we die from accidental poisoning, or lung cancer.
So, we need to learn how to navigate this world, do what is right, and avoid getting into trouble we can't get out of. Some of it is pretty straightforward, like learning what kinds of food is poisonous. Others, not quite so.
Many societies evolved or developed moral codes for this purpose. Not so much to help one another but to teach the young 'uns how to live their lives. Almost every society turned to the spiritual realm and taught that aligning ourselves to this spiritual realm was fundamental to developing our moral compass and living our lives as best we can.
Not all attempts came to the same conclusions, however. There were those who advocated enjoying life to the fullest, others the very opposite. In many societies, might was right. If we won a war, we were entitled to loot, pillage and rape. When we quarrelled, we had a fight or a duel to decide who's in the right.
Even today, we are told that we all have our own values and as long as we live peacefully with one another, that's fine. But this kind of personal moral compass have not been very successful. And even though Modern society tends to look with suspicion on religion, there are many who still turn to religion. In treating people struggling with their lives, psychologists often advocate meditation as a way to solve our problems. Even if it means finding a religion to belong to.
It seems that religion is important. That believing in a higher power, call it what you like, is important. So, if we are to believe in God, which God? Does it matter?
Knight
Well-known Member
Couldn't have been since the sentence says "in our image" . So I did a Google search to see if there is an image of 1st. mankind.
Sure enough there are several images.
Homo habilis:
.
This species, meaning "handy man" in Latin, is known for its association with the use of stone tools and lived in Eastern and Southern Africa from approximately 2.4 to 1.4 million years ago.
Google Search
I'm guessing the bible story of Adam & Eve works better since as an image they look more like how humans have evolved over the millions of years. Some of the other depictions look more ape like. Then again "in our image" suggests more than one image.
Attachments
speculative my dear holmes - much is speculative - many of the OT books were considered to be written by Moses but if you want a fully speculative listing I have included that referencing - Moses often indicated that he spoke directly to God often atop a mountain? However his interpretation of Gods words will be often speculative - as will those of Abraham.
Incidentally these same historic accounts from Moses and Abraham are recognized and authenticated as true by Islamic scholars also. This entire study of biblical history is one that would need to be singled out and focused on in several courses of studies in some focused institution as a scholar of religion etc.
We as much simpler scholars have all been presented with the easily accessible copy of The Bible - but the road leading to this is another study altogether? And here on a simple forum of many options we can only skim for the moment; otherwise we would take up all space indeed and management would not be pleased?
identified bible book authors
the complexities of bible studies
the complexities of bible studies II
happy readings
Incidentally these same historic accounts from Moses and Abraham are recognized and authenticated as true by Islamic scholars also. This entire study of biblical history is one that would need to be singled out and focused on in several courses of studies in some focused institution as a scholar of religion etc.
We as much simpler scholars have all been presented with the easily accessible copy of The Bible - but the road leading to this is another study altogether? And here on a simple forum of many options we can only skim for the moment; otherwise we would take up all space indeed and management would not be pleased?
identified bible book authors
the complexities of bible studies
the complexities of bible studies II
happy readings
Last edited:
Boon54
Member
Day 9
So, what do we mean when we talk about God? Even if we were to limit ourselves to the Bible, it's not as straightforward as it seems.
For a start, God manifests Himself in several ways. Early in Genesis, in Genesis 1:26 and Genesis 3:22, God refers to Himself as us, and this plurality is found in the original Hebrew. At other times, God has been a burning bush (Exodus 3:1-6) and as a pillar of cloud and fire (Exodus 13:21-22). He sometimes appear as a man (Genesis 18:1-33 (to Abraham), Genesis 32:24-30 (Jacob wrestling with God)) and sometimes he's an audible voice or a "still, small voice" (1 Kings 19:11-13).
God also appeared as visions, in dreams, in natural phenomena as well as through prophets (too many references to list).
In the Bible, God has been described as omnipresent (present everywhere) and omniscient (knowing everything). So, it is rather odd that today, if we don't even know if He exists.
I think the key here is to think about God in a different way. Not ask whether He exists but what the Bible meant when they're talking about God. I think the problem is not whether God exists but that the language used in the past, in the Bible, describes the world in a different way than we do today.
So, what do we mean when we talk about God? Even if we were to limit ourselves to the Bible, it's not as straightforward as it seems.
For a start, God manifests Himself in several ways. Early in Genesis, in Genesis 1:26 and Genesis 3:22, God refers to Himself as us, and this plurality is found in the original Hebrew. At other times, God has been a burning bush (Exodus 3:1-6) and as a pillar of cloud and fire (Exodus 13:21-22). He sometimes appear as a man (Genesis 18:1-33 (to Abraham), Genesis 32:24-30 (Jacob wrestling with God)) and sometimes he's an audible voice or a "still, small voice" (1 Kings 19:11-13).
God also appeared as visions, in dreams, in natural phenomena as well as through prophets (too many references to list).
In the Bible, God has been described as omnipresent (present everywhere) and omniscient (knowing everything). So, it is rather odd that today, if we don't even know if He exists.
I think the key here is to think about God in a different way. Not ask whether He exists but what the Bible meant when they're talking about God. I think the problem is not whether God exists but that the language used in the past, in the Bible, describes the world in a different way than we do today.
Paco Dennis
SF VIP
- Location
- Mid-Missouri
Everything else in the universe is busy doing it's life. Nothing I have witnessed ,yet, wonders why or how it exits. humans should do the same.
VaughanJB
Scrappy VIP
It was a chemical process. However, you can reduce the argument farther, and ask where the chemicals came from. However, even God doesn't answer that one. Why? Because my question would simply be, where did God come from? The only answer I've ever heard is that he always was, and had no beginning. But if that suffices for believers, then why wouldn't "it just happened" not be a worthy response for the natural creation of Earth?
VaughanJB
Scrappy VIP
Everything else in the universe is busy doing it's life. Nothing I have witnessed ,yet, wonders why or how it exits. humans should do the same.
Oh, for me that's the fundamental question. I am resigned to the fact that I won't have a good answer in my life time. The question is too complex, and I don't think we're going to have direct contact with alien species in the time I have left. I am certain (faith) that life is out there. Sadly, distances are too large, and our tech isn't remotely advanced enough to move the dial on the subject.
David777
Well-known Member
- Location
- Silicon Valley
That question is not an issue to this person that has unique ideas I posted my reference post to earlier.
Indeed scripture reads like what men recorded as "God" was inconsistent. In the NT, Jesus always refers to God as "The Father" or "Holy Spirit", the helper, without further explanations. From that the doctrine of "The Holy Trinity" developed that scholars argued about and some denominations denounced. As I've mentioned previously, it all reads like whoever has been communicating with humans, never correct them when they interpret scripture.
In Genesis, Moses also recorded God saying "We" as though he might be referring to himself being a part of a race of angels. So it reads like though men referred to some acts as by God, they may have actually been a number of different related entities from such a race that never correct man's flawed interpretation of that would only cause humans to ask more questions they would choose not to discuss. Of course, this all grates against the belief in divine inspiration of scripture and inerrancy that this person strongly rejects much less OOO Middle Ages philosopher nonsense. And the notion God looks like we Earthlings 8.5 billion years after the universe began is extremely anthropocentric. Jhn 1.1 reads with "Word" to me like some kind of UIE non-organic entity.
It may be within this Milky Way Galaxy within our region or even across the whole known universe of 2 trillion galaxies, there are other similar DNA evolved intelligent organic beings on planets that the UIEs interact with and may guide if necessary to prevent evil. It may be they may select members of such worlds to represent the rest of that specific world as may be the case of Jesus or as I expect may make them lead entities over their entire realm as scripture tends to indicate. As I suspect, the Gospel of John is at least mostly inspired though wisely crafted through the literary style of the synoptics so as to be not noticed so.
Jhn 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of mankind. 5 And the Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not grasp it.
Rev 1:8
āI am the Alpha and the Omega,ā says the Lord God, āwho is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.ā
Indeed scripture reads like what men recorded as "God" was inconsistent. In the NT, Jesus always refers to God as "The Father" or "Holy Spirit", the helper, without further explanations. From that the doctrine of "The Holy Trinity" developed that scholars argued about and some denominations denounced. As I've mentioned previously, it all reads like whoever has been communicating with humans, never correct them when they interpret scripture.
In Genesis, Moses also recorded God saying "We" as though he might be referring to himself being a part of a race of angels. So it reads like though men referred to some acts as by God, they may have actually been a number of different related entities from such a race that never correct man's flawed interpretation of that would only cause humans to ask more questions they would choose not to discuss. Of course, this all grates against the belief in divine inspiration of scripture and inerrancy that this person strongly rejects much less OOO Middle Ages philosopher nonsense. And the notion God looks like we Earthlings 8.5 billion years after the universe began is extremely anthropocentric. Jhn 1.1 reads with "Word" to me like some kind of UIE non-organic entity.
It may be within this Milky Way Galaxy within our region or even across the whole known universe of 2 trillion galaxies, there are other similar DNA evolved intelligent organic beings on planets that the UIEs interact with and may guide if necessary to prevent evil. It may be they may select members of such worlds to represent the rest of that specific world as may be the case of Jesus or as I expect may make them lead entities over their entire realm as scripture tends to indicate. As I suspect, the Gospel of John is at least mostly inspired though wisely crafted through the literary style of the synoptics so as to be not noticed so.
Jhn 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of mankind. 5 And the Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not grasp it.
Rev 1:8
āI am the Alpha and the Omega,ā says the Lord God, āwho is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.ā
My intellect tells me it makes no sense, both examples I posted.
Boon54
Member
Day 10
Instead of asking who or what is God? Or even how can we prove He exists or not, I found it more useful to focus on us and why we need Him.
For example, a frequent argument against God is "If there's a loving God, why does He allow suffering?"
Perhaps the more useful question is why do we care so much about it? If there is no God, then surely suffering is just another thing that exists. There's no reason for anything to exist or not.
The interesting thing about suffering is that it breaks us or it makes us. For example, we have to work hard at something before we can become good at it. The harder we work at it, the better and stronger we become. If you don't like what you're doing, then it's a sufferance. That's why we're good at some things and not good at others. We don't enjoy working hard at things we don't like.
But, sometimes, we have to apply ourselves at doing things we don't like, like working for the money, or housework, and so on. But applying ourselves to doing what we don't like builds our resilience and discipline. Even though we may not like it when we're doing it, we feel better about ourselves after we do.
In that sense, suffering is a choice. We can choose to work hard or do something we don't like, or not. We often choose to suffer because we find that it's good and useful to us.
There's two very interesting stories about suffering. The first involves Eric Clapton. His four-year-old son Conor fell to his death from the 53rd floor of a New York skyscraper in 1991. Following that death, he wrote a song Tears in Heaven in response to his suffering about his son's death. In the song, he talked about what it might be like if he were to meet his son in heaven. The roles would be reversed because he doesn't belong in heaven. He talks about how hard life can be on earth, but also about how he needs to be strong and carry on. And hopefully, despite being undeserving, to meet his son again in heaven. It's his way of finding meaning and coping with his suffering. It helped him to carry on.
A second story involves two brothers - Christopher Hitchens and Peter Hitchens. Their mother, Yvonne Jean Hitchens, died by suicide in Athens with her lover. Peter became a Christian advocate partly because he found solace in religion while Christopher denied God because he felt it was too unfair for God to take away his mother. You can look up the impact of this choice in their lives.
If you don't believe in God, then there's no reason to be upset about suffering. It exists. There's no reason why it shouldn't. There's no reason for anything. It is what it is. But if suffering bothers you, then the answer, for many people, is God.
Instead of asking who or what is God? Or even how can we prove He exists or not, I found it more useful to focus on us and why we need Him.
For example, a frequent argument against God is "If there's a loving God, why does He allow suffering?"
Perhaps the more useful question is why do we care so much about it? If there is no God, then surely suffering is just another thing that exists. There's no reason for anything to exist or not.
The interesting thing about suffering is that it breaks us or it makes us. For example, we have to work hard at something before we can become good at it. The harder we work at it, the better and stronger we become. If you don't like what you're doing, then it's a sufferance. That's why we're good at some things and not good at others. We don't enjoy working hard at things we don't like.
But, sometimes, we have to apply ourselves at doing things we don't like, like working for the money, or housework, and so on. But applying ourselves to doing what we don't like builds our resilience and discipline. Even though we may not like it when we're doing it, we feel better about ourselves after we do.
In that sense, suffering is a choice. We can choose to work hard or do something we don't like, or not. We often choose to suffer because we find that it's good and useful to us.
There's two very interesting stories about suffering. The first involves Eric Clapton. His four-year-old son Conor fell to his death from the 53rd floor of a New York skyscraper in 1991. Following that death, he wrote a song Tears in Heaven in response to his suffering about his son's death. In the song, he talked about what it might be like if he were to meet his son in heaven. The roles would be reversed because he doesn't belong in heaven. He talks about how hard life can be on earth, but also about how he needs to be strong and carry on. And hopefully, despite being undeserving, to meet his son again in heaven. It's his way of finding meaning and coping with his suffering. It helped him to carry on.
A second story involves two brothers - Christopher Hitchens and Peter Hitchens. Their mother, Yvonne Jean Hitchens, died by suicide in Athens with her lover. Peter became a Christian advocate partly because he found solace in religion while Christopher denied God because he felt it was too unfair for God to take away his mother. You can look up the impact of this choice in their lives.
If you don't believe in God, then there's no reason to be upset about suffering. It exists. There's no reason why it shouldn't. There's no reason for anything. It is what it is. But if suffering bothers you, then the answer, for many people, is God.
David777
Well-known Member
- Location
- Silicon Valley
The whole micro-managing narrative both over human societies and individuals that what Christian denominations call god is not actually reflected Bible scripture nor ever has been and is instead rather obvious non-interference has always been the case except with the ancient Israeli's out of Egypt when they roamed the desert. Instead it is another facet of the Middle Age philosopher OOO creative supposedly inspired nonsense that has dominated current dogmas.
So NO, whatever is referred to as God is not making zillions of constant decisions of whether one person gets supernatural help or not, much less large societies suffering atrocities of war. And the history of vast armies of those preying on killing, plundering, and raping innocent others like the Mongol hordes supports that. One only needs to study recent Mesopotamian anthropology clay tablet research of 6,000 year old Sumerian and Akkadian earliest civilizations to see it has always been that way with some of we warmongering murderous humans.
As I speculate, yes some UIE entities have tried to intervene in near invisible ways to help us. But really all that horror is on those evil within our human race the rest of us have been given the task to excise.
Jhn 8:37
I know that you are Abrahamās descendants; yet you are seeking to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38 I speak of the things which I have seen with My Father; therefore you also do the things which you heard from your father.ā
39 They answered and said to Him, āAbraham is our father.ā Jesus *said to them, āIf you are Abrahamās children, do the deeds of Abraham. 40 But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do.
41 You are doing the deeds of your father.ā
They said to Him, āWe were not born as a result of sexual immorality; we have one Father: God.ā
42 Jesus said to them, āIf God were your Father, you would love Me, for I came forth from God and am here; for I have not even come on My own, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he tells a lie, he speaks from his own nature, because he is a liar and the father of lies.
So NO, whatever is referred to as God is not making zillions of constant decisions of whether one person gets supernatural help or not, much less large societies suffering atrocities of war. And the history of vast armies of those preying on killing, plundering, and raping innocent others like the Mongol hordes supports that. One only needs to study recent Mesopotamian anthropology clay tablet research of 6,000 year old Sumerian and Akkadian earliest civilizations to see it has always been that way with some of we warmongering murderous humans.
As I speculate, yes some UIE entities have tried to intervene in near invisible ways to help us. But really all that horror is on those evil within our human race the rest of us have been given the task to excise.
Jhn 8:37
I know that you are Abrahamās descendants; yet you are seeking to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38 I speak of the things which I have seen with My Father; therefore you also do the things which you heard from your father.ā
39 They answered and said to Him, āAbraham is our father.ā Jesus *said to them, āIf you are Abrahamās children, do the deeds of Abraham. 40 But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do.
41 You are doing the deeds of your father.ā
They said to Him, āWe were not born as a result of sexual immorality; we have one Father: God.ā
42 Jesus said to them, āIf God were your Father, you would love Me, for I came forth from God and am here; for I have not even come on My own, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he tells a lie, he speaks from his own nature, because he is a liar and the father of lies.
OMG this is so so outstanding - should be shouted from the rooftops and mountaintops too!!\
42 Jesus said to them, āIf God were your Father, you would love Me, for I came forth from God and am here; for I have not even come on My own, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he tells a lie, he speaks from his own nature, because he is a liar and the father of lies.
42 Jesus said to them, āIf God were your Father, you would love Me, for I came forth from God and am here; for I have not even come on My own, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he tells a lie, he speaks from his own nature, because he is a liar and the father of lies.
Boon54
Member
Day 11
In the same way, the answer to questions like, "Why do rich people get richer and the poor people poorer?" or "Why does God allow evil and injustice?" and so on, is to ask "Why do we care?" If God does not exist, then all these things are as likely as anything else. There's no reason to care. It is the way of the world we live in.
If you don't care about these things - suffering, injustice, evil, etc. - then you can take advantage of this to make yourself successful. And we have seen that over history - slavery, murder, theft, etc. Over the course of history, we have many examples of might over right. It is even so today. Fortunately and importantly, it is not as bad as it used to be.
For those of us who struggle with these questions, the answer is to turn to God.
In one of the most beautiful passages in the Bible, Jesus pointed out the people who are blessed by God. It's called, appropriately, the Beatitudes (Matthew 5:3ā12, ESV):
"3. Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4. Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
5. Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.
6. Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.
7. Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.
8. Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
9. Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.
10. Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11. Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account.
12. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you."
Significantly, for our discussion at least, he didn't say anything about whether or not we need to believe in God. He simply said that those who respond to the Natural Law and suffered for it are those that God blesses. He encourages us, in the most gentle way, to keep fighting. Not to give up.
In other words, although it may feel quite the opposite, God is glad that you perceive evil, injustice and suffering for what they are. And He wants you to wrestle with it and come out stronger and, more importantly, help create a better world. God is there with you.
In the same way, the answer to questions like, "Why do rich people get richer and the poor people poorer?" or "Why does God allow evil and injustice?" and so on, is to ask "Why do we care?" If God does not exist, then all these things are as likely as anything else. There's no reason to care. It is the way of the world we live in.
If you don't care about these things - suffering, injustice, evil, etc. - then you can take advantage of this to make yourself successful. And we have seen that over history - slavery, murder, theft, etc. Over the course of history, we have many examples of might over right. It is even so today. Fortunately and importantly, it is not as bad as it used to be.
For those of us who struggle with these questions, the answer is to turn to God.
In one of the most beautiful passages in the Bible, Jesus pointed out the people who are blessed by God. It's called, appropriately, the Beatitudes (Matthew 5:3ā12, ESV):
"3. Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4. Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
5. Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.
6. Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.
7. Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.
8. Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
9. Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.
10. Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11. Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account.
12. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you."
Significantly, for our discussion at least, he didn't say anything about whether or not we need to believe in God. He simply said that those who respond to the Natural Law and suffered for it are those that God blesses. He encourages us, in the most gentle way, to keep fighting. Not to give up.
In other words, although it may feel quite the opposite, God is glad that you perceive evil, injustice and suffering for what they are. And He wants you to wrestle with it and come out stronger and, more importantly, help create a better world. God is there with you.
VaughanJB
Scrappy VIP
Knight
Well-known Member
Luke gives us the genealogy of Jesus Christ, he traces it all the way back to Genesis where he says in Luke 3:37-38, "...the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalalel, the son of Cainan, the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of ADAM, the SON OF GOD."
Adam was the head of the human race right? God was his father right? He was "SON" right? Everyone after him was in the same family right?
Why then would Jesus say If God were your father?
Then there is this.
Matthew 6:9-10
New International Version
9 āThis, then, is how you should pray:āāOur Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10 your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven
Brookswood
Senior Member
Deleted.
Capt Lightning
Well-known Member
- Location
- Historic Buchan, Scotland
Yesterday evening, I watched the film 'Jesus Christ Superstar'. I remember when the stage play first appeared, there were protests about it, but I recon that it is a very accurate presentation of that part of the Bible. It ends with the crucifixion, which I think is where it did end.