If you are not your thoughts, then who are you?

bobcat

bobcat

Well-known Member
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Northern Calif
This philosophy has been adopted by many, and it makes sense because there are thousands of thoughts that go through your mind everyday, but they are not you. But that being the case, whoever or whatever I think I am, they are just thoughts, and therefore not me. If I am not the thinker, only an observer, then are my thoughts about who I am just an illusion?

How do I define who I am without tying myself to thoughts about myself? Is the concept of me merely a hallucination?
 

If you are a decent nice person and someone who always has to see the worst in people
meets you will they think you are a nice person or an airhead or something else?
I know I am not the person I would like to be, all I can do is try not to let others influence
me into being what they want me to be.
Just keep on the path of the kind of person you would like to be and accept some falls
and just keep trying. May never achieve but I'd sure like to get real close.
 

thinking-about-you-memes-winkgo-give-me-a-lot-of-thinking.jpg
 
I just thought of another thing on this. We all have those moments when we have a thought
we probably don't want to say out loud, or anger that nearly takes your head off. I think the line in the sand is
Do You ACT on them?
If you never had a bad thought or a scheme to get even enter your mind, how you going to know it when it's aimed at you?
So is that a defining or a lesson? When you store it away for reference.
How do you develop empathy, by experiencing the same feelings as someone else, how can you empathize with someone
so mad they want to do damage to someone and help to talk them down unless you have felt that way too?
So no, I do not believe your thoughts are who you really are, it's your actions/words that define you as a person.
 
I put your query to AI and added the word Buddhim. :)


In Buddhism, if you are not your thoughts, you are the awareness or the observer of those thoughts, a continuous process of conscious experience rather than a fixed, solid entity. Thoughts are seen as impermanent and arising from the mind like clouds or a river, distinct from the mind that observes them. You are the continuous flux of experiences, the constant flow of moments, rather than an unchanging "self" doing the thinking or experiencing. [1, 2, 3, 4]


You are the Observer:
  • Awareness, not the thought itself: When you can witness your thoughts without being caught by them, you are the awareness that allows thoughts to be seen. [2, 4, 5]
  • A witness to experience: You are the space in which thoughts arise and cease, like a silent observer of the movie of your mind. [1, 2]
You are the Continuous Flow of Experience: [1, 3, 6]
  • A process, not a thing: Instead of a solid, unchanging self, you are a continuous series of experiences and sensations.
  • Impermanence: Just as thoughts are constantly changing, so too is the nature of your being, a flux from one moment to the next.
Why this concept is important:
  • Anatta (Non-self): This understanding is rooted in the Buddhist concept of anatta, the lack of a permanent, independent self. [3]
  • Reducing suffering: Identifying with thoughts creates an illusion of a solid self, which causes anxiety and suffering. By realizing you are not your thoughts, you can gain freedom from this cycle and cultivate inner peace. [7, 8, 9, 10]
  • Meditation as a tool: Meditation helps to reveal this by allowing you to observe your thoughts without getting swept away by them, highlighting the separation between you and your thoughts. [4, 7]
AI responses may include mistakes.
[1]
https://www.reddit.com/r/Meditation/comments/13d862t
[2] You Are Not Your Thoughts
[3]
[4]
https://www.reddit.com/r/Buddhism/comments/2d2mt3
[5] https://www.reddit.com/r/Meditation/comments/1dbz96c/you_are_not_your_thoughts/
[6] Can you explain the meaning of "you are not your mind" in Buddhism?
[7]
https://www.reddit.com/r/Buddhism/comments/kxyub7
[8] Realise You Are Not Your Thoughts - That There's Nothing to Fix
[9] https://christopherdorris.com/you-are-not-your-thoughts/
[10] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsG0VOCKi8I
 
Hmmmm. :unsure: Does this count? (a bit dark)

The most terrifying force of death, comes from the hands of one who just wanted to Be left alone. I try, so very hard, to mind my own business and provide for those I love.

I resist every impulse to fight back, knowing that, if forced, a permanent change of life will come from It.
I know, that the moment I fight back, the peaceful life I have tried to live, is over. The moment I just wanted to be left alone is forced to fight back, It becomes a form of suicide.

I am literally killing off the one who I once used to be. Which Is why, when forced to take up violence, I, who just wanted to be left lone, will fight with an unholy vengeance against those I feel murdered my former life.

I will fight with raw hate, And a drive that cannot be fathomed by those who are merely play acting at politics and terror. Now, true terror will arrive at those people's doorstep, and they will cry, scream, and beg for mercy... but it will fall on the deaf ears of I... who just wanted to be left alone.

back down.jpg
 
bobcat said:
This philosophy has been adopted by many, and it makes sense because there are thousands of thoughts that go through your mind everyday, but they are not you. But that being the case, whoever or whatever I think I am, they are just thoughts, and therefore not me. If I am not the thinker, only an observer, then are my thoughts about who I am just an illusion?
  1. Descartes famously stated, "I think, therefore I am," suggesting that our thoughts are integral to our identity. However, other philosophical traditions, like Buddhism, emphasize the idea that thoughts are transient and do not define the self.
Click to expand...
 
bobcat said:
This philosophy has been adopted by many, and it makes sense because there are thousands of thoughts that go through your mind everyday, but they are not you. But that being the case, whoever or whatever I think I am, they are just thoughts, and therefore not me. If I am not the thinker, only an observer, then are my thoughts about who I am just an illusion?

How do I define who I am without tying myself to thoughts about myself? Is the concept of me merely a hallucination?
Click to expand...
I am more my actions, my deeds, good or ill. My thoughts often arise spontaneously and are neither right nor wrong until I act on them. That is when I show who I am.
 
Have seen such philosophy/psychology questions before. Psychotherapists use non-science based non-technical explanations like the OP's question to explain such ideas in order to help persons that suffer from say Obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD) that features patterns of unwanted thoughts and fears known as obsessions. These obsessions lead people to do repetitive behaviors even if they don't want to.

Due to the new science of neural plasticity, the more one thinks of anything including such negative things, the more one's brain changes adding connections to think in such ways even more. That is why it is a referred to as a dynamic "plastic" process. It isn't that some human brains are innately disordered to be such ways, but rather people train themselves to be so. We become what we experience and do. That may not be what disordered, confused persons want to hear because their brain executive control doesn't seem to be able to change or cope with not doing whatever, that is mostly about not knowing how to escape their own self caused confusion.

Much of the confusion is due to a lack of understanding ordinary persons have trying to describe inner mental thoughts in meaningful ways. If one asked a group of people some vague question like "what are you as a mind", the result would likely be a bunch of rather useless, different explanations using vague terms they themselves inadequately understand. New era brain science persons would instead pose the answer in terms of executive control or "pilot" that is a mental faculty or capacity based on actual brain structures in systems of specific brain areas that direct and manage goal-oriented actions and thinking.

In the same way, a person can make themselves given repetition over time. We are not inherently destined to be flawed as psychology science once thought and potentially can change though for most confused persons that will require professional guidance. Much more.
Directly addressing the OP's question differently than posed, we are what we have made our executive control by thinking, experiences, and actions. Those become real physical brain neural interconnections.
 
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I may be totally wrong on this because I have very little evidence to base it on. Freud recognized that the mind is like an iceberg, and the only part visible is the tip (Consciousness). He also believed in the subconscious, and unconscious. I think there might be a 4th as well (The preconscious).

Anyway, to the point of the conversation: I think the thoughts that parade through our head non-stop are generated by the subconscious and/or the unconscious mind. Who knows why they are generated, maybe fears, insecurities, desires, beliefs, biases, etc...). I believe our subconscious mind is always at work on unresolved issues or perhaps trying to provide us with assurance.

In the conscious mind, there is the Cerebrum where most thought is processed (The reasoning part). When it's not busy with a task, the subconscious gives it something to think about (Nature abhors a vacuum). So when we think of "I" as being the source of our thinking, perhaps it's just the reasoning part of our brain that can observe thought generated by the subconscious, pay attention to them (or not), and process them (Ponder them).

When we think of the "self" or "me", it is simply a collection of beliefs we have about ourselves as a living being. Granted there may be a lot we don't know about ourselves because it is buried or repressed, but maybe by observing our thoughts, they may teach us a considerable amount.
 
This reminds me of an old saying: Actions speak louder than words. And they certainly speak louder than thoughts.

I think all of our brains are flitting around from place to place all the time. There is nothing wrong with that; in fact, there would be a lot more wrong if our brains thought only goody-goody, highly moralistic thoughts all the time. We all think things that might be called "sinful" by some; so what?

Bottom line: It's what we do that counts.
 
I think our thoughts come from sensory input of what we see & hear. And to some degree what we feel thru touch. Ever changing so logically thoughts would change. Exception would be a repeat of prior input that we would have reacted to in some manner.

I wonder how a person born deaf & blind would answer this.
 
Our minds and nervous systems are difficult subjects for ordinary people to meaningfully address. That is one reason I started the below thread 12 days ago concerning more up to date nervous system science to help members here meaningfully structure how they think about such. My posts #8 and #10 are most pertinent to the current thread. Most useful and convincing for some, would be as a start, to just watch the long 53 minute YouTube video in post #10, that as an entertaining PBS NOVA tv science broadcast, won't be boring nor confusing, but rather surprising, illluminating.

Illuminating the "hard problem of consciousness" mystery

Thus, that thread was not so much for conversation but to help others understand how to discuss these matters many wonder about. What even somewhat educated thought they knew from decades ago is certain to be rather flawed today, as much has recently changed. Didn't expect many would bother, haha, and most of the statements in this current thread show that to this person.
 

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