I'm tired of bums with cardboard signs

Lon said:
I agree with you Denise so I guess that makes me a member of the Judgemental Club. I have personally stopped my car, parked it and then personally approached and talked to some of the BUMS that are carrying signs claiming to be VETS all to find out that they are not VETS. One of the local TV stations interviewd a guy that stands on a prominent street corner that actually bragged that he made over $80,000 pan handling in 2014.
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I know about some of these, and that is what I am down on Lon. Thanks for sharing this.
 

I can use an analogy here that may better explain where I am coming from. I believe we, most of us, have to make judgement calls every day. If you have 2 children, and both are sick, but you can only go to one, what do you do?

Another is, if you see two folks on the street, badly hurt, you are a member of the medical field, and know your business. You have to judge which needs treatment first. If you pick wrong, it could cost a life.

This one finally, I have two guys with card-board signs. One is still begging after I gave him money earlier that day. Who do I give money to?? Him or the new guy.

I'm beginning to think I am judgemental, but I feel there is a need for it, no matter what some may think. Maybe "good judgement" is ok?? The work judgemental may mean something else that I am not, but I make decisions every day, judging what or which is the best thing.
 

SifuPhil said:
You know "bums" is a non-P.C. word these days, right?

I think a lot of them may be vets. And a lot of them are no doubt alcoholics / druggies. And a lot of them just can't catch a break.

There comes a point where you are so low that you cannot pull yourself up anymore, and you fall through the cracks of all the social systems. Should there be a law that they have to stay 1,000 feet away from "real" people because it's easier that way not to have to see them? Should they be required to ring a bell and yell "UNCLEAN!" whenever they're on the move?
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I have nothing but empathy for those who have truly tried, or are mentally disabled. I'm truly not talking about them Phil. I don't suppose we can know who is who out there, so it's truly throwing the baby out with the bathwater if we don't offer help to all. I figure that is the conclusion I am coming to. I can't let it stop me from going out into the streets to enjoy the weather and the exercise. I am just hoping for some solution that can help all people. Not just the "street vendors" but also the people that are supporting them.

I totally understand there are folks that hate their lives out there. And want something more, but I'm not going to enable the guy/or gal that sits with the same sign every day, instead of taking the free shelters, showers new clothing and food to help them get on their feet. Of course maybe some are saving the money they are earning on the streets so that they can spend it on college, or a place of their own. I wonder.
 
Would you put on a cardboard sign for $80 grand? hmmmmmm..... It might be dangerous... and it IS deceiving people... but lots of things out there intentionally deceive people.. But think about it... $80 grand...not breaking the law.... and if you really wanted to be above board.. you could even pay taxes on it..
 
"When I grow up, I want to be homeless and an addict or an alcoholic" said no little kid ever.

The very nature of addiction is that it is NOT a choice. It's an ADDICTION. When people find themselves in that situation, it isn't a matter of not "wanting" to follow rules; it's a matter of addiction taking over.

If just saying no was really something addicts could do, they'd say no and be done with it. We'd have no addicts. It's not a choice; it's a compulsion, an illness needing treatment.

And, Denise, yes you're entitled to your SS money; we all are, but what if it somehow just went away through no fault of our own? What if all those social programs trying to help us with our health care, housing, utilities, food, all went away, too? Then what? You'd get a job? Remember how hard you tried to get a job? Someone else always got the job instead of you. How easy is it to get a job when you have no address and no phone number that a prospective employer can use to call you? How likely is it that a prospective employer is going to hire somebody who's dity and smelly? And what about those who are too old and infirm to work?

You see? You may not like the signs, the scruffiness, the general distasteful appearance of those people. None of us like to see it. Maybe it's because it reminds all of us that it could just as well be us out there as them.
 
I wouldn't. I don't know the why's but somewhere along the way I lost interest in any more money than just what I needed. In other words, I still dream (once in a great while) of having a little more, but no, a lot of money isn't anything I long for. Maybe that just makes me stupid, and maybe it didn't make me successful with earning money. Who knows.

I know this is turning into a more light-hearted thread, and that's ok with me. It's really only the scarey people out there that make me uncomfy when walking. And I admit many times I feel so ashamed because I don't have something to give people with signs. Maybe that's the real reason I posted this. I do feel sorry for them, for whatever reason they are out there. And the dogs they have with them, or little kids:( I've seen that too.

But enabling is not a very, good word either, or action. To me it's right up there with judgemental.
 
oh okay maybe my post is too long..

I'll do it in 2 parts..
Part 1-
I think we are all judgemental or insensitive sometimes. We're human. It isn't human nature to be perfect. Denise I understand disliking that someone might just be lazy and panhandle just because they don't want to work. My Granny ( bless her soul) didn't have a prejudice bone in her body except she couldn't abide laziness in any form. I'm sure I was a great disappoinmet LOL Anyway, so lots of us were really taught not be lazy. I have seen on news programs them showing a panhandler get into a brand new cadillac parked a couple blocks away and drive off after panhandling all day. That doesn't mean that all panhandlers are lazy or trying to get over on people. Also a person doesn't have to be a Vietnam vet to have 'issues'. I cannot remember where read this advice , but it said " If you see someone doing or saying something offensive do not directly and openly disgrace the person with correction, rather give your advice so kindly the person is not even aware you are speaking about them. It is the correction of the fault you want..not the disgrace of another human being."
I blab a LOT of stuff off the top of my head without thinking thus my username BLUNDERWOMAN. LOL.
Thing is, many people have problems that might prevent them from functioning in society or holding down jobs. I myself have been battling agoraphobia for years. It can be very debilitating. Many people have problems they haven't been treated for.
 
part 2-
I really thought I was well from the agoraphobia & had been driving and going some places for years. the recent car wreck & broken neck & being stuffed in one room seems to have made me regress some and I'm battling with all I have to stay out in the world. I'm almost too sensitive for social interaction. I have to try though & make myself I realize this.
What caused this in me?I'm not exactly sure what caused me to be this way, but I do know when I began to withdraw and not come out.
I'd had a life with quite a few VERY traumatic scaring experiences. I seem to have managed to go through those and still function very well, though I had rage issues from holding in rage.
 
part 3-
Then during my marriage my ex moved his family in our house. His mother made Satan jealous because try as he might he just could not be as evil as her. She decided to sabotage my marriage because she didn't want me married to her son and she wanted to 'choose' his wife. ( MAJOR control freak). So.. she stole anything she wanted from me and gave it away to her daughters. I had to go to work bra less one day because she stole my last bra right out of the dryer while it was spinning, I got a new couch.. she put hair dye all over her hair and sat on the couch purposely rubbing her head all over the back of my couch. I would wake up in the morning to her having dumped ALL my expensive spices out on the floor. I would discover she had unplugged my freezer or refrigerator and let everything spoil. She would take all my husbands socks and underwear and hide them or throw them out so he would wake up to get ready for work and yell at me when he couldn't find socks. When I told him his mother was doing it he said " Sure MY MOTHER is taking all my socks. Like I believe that!" Anyway she did this stuff NON STOP. That stuff and much worse. She would pull a chair up about 1 ft away from me and STARE and STARE and STARE at me without moving until I left the room and went to my bedroom.
 
Thanks for sharing BW, I think that relates to me a lot. I've had to at least try to work, and some of these folks could do the same. I know there are all kinds out there and I don't mean to say that I dislike the people, it's the behaviour I dislike. You made some very, good points. Thanks again, denise
 
part 4-
When I told him she was doing that my ex would say" She said she thinks you're beautiful and she just loves you so much. That's why she notices you." So she would tell him how much she 'loved' me while the whole time sabotaging me. So when I did complain of my abuse I looked like the evil one. he would say " All my mother does is talk about how great you are & look at the horrible way you talk about her!" So... eventually with all of the constant staring I just stayed in my room around the clock because I was afraid I might explode and beat the living snot out of her. Eventually all her tactics did make my husband hate me. It took her 15 years. I had been madly madly in love with my husband. One day I just couldn't take seeing the look of hatred towards me on his face anymore & I asked him to leave after 26 years with him. By that time though I was used to being in my cage. I couldn't leave my room. That is when it started. I'm not sure if that's completely to blame for it..but that is when I shut myself away. it took me a long time to be able to leave the room without the blurry spins and anxiety breakdowns.
 
Why am I telling my life story? Just to share that sometimes people break in places that aren't visible and just don't function like everyone else. After my house burned down and my car burned up I would have been homeless if my ex wasn't COMPLETELY paying for everything to help me out out of the goodness of his heart.
Recently my long lost brother that I never met found me. I've really been excited about talking to him on the phone. He told me his story about how he left home early because of his stepmother. He went on to talk about how she never left the house for any reason no matter what it was. I said " So she was agoraphobic?" He said " I don't know or care, but anyone who can't leave their house is a NUT!!"
;) lol that's me ..
 
People don't have signs here. They just stay by certain bus stops grubbing change. It does annoy me sometimes. Hey I mean at least walk yourself to welfare or one of those hire by day workers offices. Just sitting there day after day isn't getting you out of this situation.
 
I'll be back, I have some errands to do while getting some fresh air walking. Just don't want anyone to think I am deserting the thread. I want to hear from you, as many as possible:) Thanks, I am feeling different about things, so this has helped to spill my guts on what I knew would be a tough subject, lots of differences in opinion.
 
Denise1952 said:
Thanks for sharing BW, I think that relates to me a lot. I've had to at least try to work, and some of these folks could do the same. I know there are all kinds out there and I don't mean to say that I dislike the people, it's the behaviour I dislike. You made some very, good points. Thanks again, denise
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Yeah Denise we all travel this river the best we can coming to different conclusions, lessons from what we have personally grasped doing what we can. We don't all take the same forks in the river ((hugs))

The end..
whew..sorry that was so long and windy
 
Denise1952 said:
Thanks for sharing BW, I think that relates to me a lot. I've had to at least try to work, and some of these folks could do the same. I know there are all kinds out there and I don't mean to say that I dislike the people, it's the behaviour I dislike. You made some very, good points. Thanks again, denise
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You've tried to work. How do you know that the very people you're talking about haven't tried? How do you know that they haven't hit one too many brick walls before just giving up and accepting that their lives will never be what they were before they fell down a black hole?

When you first started this thread, you tarred them all with the same brush. As it's gone on and people have pointed out the fallacy of your thinking on many points, you've back-pedaled, then gone back to judging them all.

Quite frankly, Denise, I think there's one big thing at play here and that is that you're scared. Scared of the possibility that you could become one of them.

There are as many stories out there as there are people who frighten you. Please don't assign labels to them. You hear about this one or that one who's scamming people or gaming the system. They are not the majority. We don't often hear the stories of those who are the majority and they are as deserving of our compassion as anybody else who suffers from any other sort of misfortune.

I should think you would be much more compassionate than most by virtue of having lived through your own trials. Mostly what your words do is smack of smugness. You survived and came out ahead; therefore, everybody else should as well.
 
I've got to wonder, Denise, how things developed that you were broke and homeless yourself living in your truck and then in a shelter. You didn't say why you were living with your sister to begin with or why she turned you out after a blowout. There are two sides to every story and we all play a part in our circumstances and then things get out of hand.

These street people/scammers might look like they are not 'trying' but we really don't know what is going on with them, they might be schizophrenic or drug addicted or just social misfits. As you know, it isn't easy to get it together, and some people have really given up, after having been knocked about all their lives, they really don't want to be part of the corruption and mess anymore. I can relate to that, but luckily I never got that far gone that I couldn't pull myself up again, unlike them.

On the lighter side, this movie was lots of fun and addresses the issue (somewhat)

 
There are over a million homeless children in America. I can't find good data for Canada.

I have lived on the streets in Vancouver bc. It gets cold there. A few people may wish to live on the streets. I guarantee you from working among the indigent for decades, the majority do not. If I had not been rescued, received


help for PTSD, bad the opportunity to get an education etc. I would have died on the mean streets, probably forced into the sex trade. i still don't know why I did not become an addict.. I certainly was abused enough. Denise, you mean well, but you clearly have not seen/experienced the brutality and anguish out there a stone's through away. Under the wrong


circumstances, any of us could end up there. I have seen teenagers, dead from hypothermia or worse.old women beaten senseless for a pair of boots. And the children!! Some of those shelters would terrify rats never mind people. Vets, mentally ill, people so

abused they have no other place to go. on and on and on. old people too poor to afford accommodation on the
pittance they receive, to poor to move somewhere else. Families fleeing violence. It is so easy to pass judgement on all because of a few "bad apples."

I live in a country which embraces social programs, but still falls short in dealing with the homeless problem. Our new prime minister has pledged to address the thousands of homeless vets, and work towards solutions for the rest of the hhomeless. I

hope something can be done soon.. I assure you, those Individuals homeless in minus twenty five temps. Dont' want to be there. There are not enough shelters for everyone. Many will not take families. Many are not safe.
 
As with everything in life, it ain't simple. There is something to be said for all sides here. When I worked in the Wall Street area, there was a little old lady on the street every lunch hour selling either pencils or needles and pins. I had to work late once and happened to see her being picked up at night by a limo. I also remember being approached by a very well dressed man claiming he had lost his wallet and needed money for a phone call or Subway fare. A few days later I ran into him again and he approached me with the same story. They're out there. No doubt about it, So are the vets, mentally ill, and those truly in need through no fault of their own. Separating the wheat from the chaff is the problem. I agree with everyone here.
 
QuickSilver said:
Would you put on a cardboard sign for $80 grand? hmmmmmm..... It might be dangerous... and it IS deceiving people... but lots of things out there intentionally deceive people.. But think about it... $80 grand...not breaking the law.... and if you really wanted to be above board.. you could even pay taxes on it..
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Pandering is illegal in most all juristrictions, it's just not enforced.
 
Ok.... then lets get them all arrested and we can support the with our tax dollar in jail... Three hots and a cot you know...
 

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