Immigrant caravan

[Traveler]

Ok I read the link in post #2.

How is anyone going to differentiate between those who are considered ‘bad’ folks with ill intentions and those others who don’t? Is it fair to paint them ALL with the same brush strokes?

No need to put BAD in quotes. We all know, or at least we SHOULD know, that organized criminal gangs need to be kept out. If anyone can't understand that, then we have a much more serious problem.

 

[JaniceM]

Ok I read the link in post #2.

How is anyone going to differentiate between those who are considered ‘bad’ folks with ill intentions and those others who don’t? Is it fair to paint them ALL with the same brush strokes?

It has nothing to do with bad folks with ill intentions. If you read all the gripes about immigrants/immigration, they're only talking about one specific group. Discrimination against one group because they 'look different.' And it's exactly the same as the way another group was herded up into camps during WW 2.
I don't know why they can't be honest and admit they don't like 'Hispanics' and don't want 'them' around. They probably have the same viewpoint toward Hispanics whose families have been here for generations, but are just using 'immigration' as an excuse.

 

[rgp]

Why is it that it seems so many seem to hate the way we do things....and yet so many want to come here ? Then when they do [get] here they want to change the way we do things?

Why don't they all just stay home, and do things their way...in their country?

And perhaps the worst are those that do stay wherever the hell they are....but still insist in telling us what to do / what we should do?

I have heard that in some places we are referred to as the ugly Americans....gee I wonder why ?

 

[ClassicRockr]

Ok I read the link in post #2.

How is anyone going to differentiate between those who are considered ‘bad’ folks with ill intentions and those others who don’t? Is it fair to paint them ALL with the same brush strokes?

Actually, the same “thinking” was done with the Vietnamese Boat People who came to Southern California and set up Little Saigon in Garden Grove. All were from Vietnam, but nobody knew if any were Communist from the North
or Viet Cong. In fact, before the Boat People came over, there were no Vietnamese gangs.

 

[rgp]

The other day a friend remarked that a 'new' influx of folks coming now from the Philippines , and they too are coming with drug connections /gang affiliations .

Could it be because Duterte shoots them ? Maybe he's on to something?

 

[Traveler]

Some people will never get it. One trick pony. Play the race card. All they know how to do is call people names. Nothing to do with LOOKS or RACE. Nothing at all.

 

[ClassicRockr]

Heck, I remember some years ago, when the “illegal” immigration was being discussed in So. California (Drivers Licenses and government benefits being approved for illegals) and some Mexican high school students there were marching, carrying the Mexican flag and holding signs that read “Proud To Be Illegal”. The Mexican Consulate or Embassy told them to stop intimidating the American’s. They just kept marching and intimidating! They didn’t care.

Anyone remember this?

 

[Traveler]

Heck, I remember some years ago, when the “illegal” immigration was being discussed in So. California (Drivers Licenses and government benefits being approved for illegals) and some Mexican high school students there were marching, carrying the Mexican flag and holding signs that read “Proud To Be Illegal”. The Mexican Consulate or Embassy told them to stop intimidating the American’s. They just kept marching and intimidating! They didn’t care.

Anyone remember this?

Last year I went to California Dept Motor Vehicles to get my license shortly after it became "legal" to give licenses to illegals. The line was out the door, down the block and stretched for about 200 yards.

Oh, by the way, they also got voter registration cards at the same time.

To those who advocate allowing MORE illegals into the United States, do you have even the SLIGHTEST idea what would have happened to me if I had not kept up my visa while living in the Philippines ? I would STILL be in their special immigration prison. Only one way to get out of that hell hole. PAY $20,000 -$50,000 in bribe money. There are Americans, Brits, Canadians and Aussies who have been locked away for a dozen years.

 

[Keesha]

Criminal background checks are done on all...or at least should be done.

Seems fair enough. So shouldn’t you all be upset with your government not the people trying to get into the country? It seems there is more anger at the immigrants than the process but perhaps I’m misunderstanding :shrug:

No need to put BAD in quotes. We all know, or at least we SHOULD know, that organized criminal gangs need to be kept out. If anyone can't understand that, then we have a much more serious problem.

No need to put BAD in quotes?
According to the topic of this thread, it appears I should. Not too many people like organized gang criminals but will background checks be sufficient enough? The airports do background checks and it doesn’t always catch these types as we are all aware from evidence of the 911 disaster. If it’s THAT easy to understand and recognize, why is there still such a problem then?

It has nothing to do with bad folks with ill intentions. If you read all the gripes about immigrants/immigration, they're only talking about one specific group. Discrimination against one group because they 'look different.' And it's exactly the same as the way another group was herded up into camps during WW 2.
I don't know why they can't be honest and admit they don't like 'Hispanics' and don't want 'them' around. They probably have the same viewpoint toward Hispanics whose families have been here for generations, but are just using 'immigration' as an excuse.

Yes! That’s what it looks and reads like in this thread and anyone who questions this get dismissed as ‘one trick ponies.!’
That makes no sense whatsoever but hatred never did make sense to me, no matter how well disguised.

Actually, the same “thinking” was done with the Vietnamese Boat People who came to Southern California and set up Little Saigon in Garden Grove. All were from Vietnam, but nobody knew if any were Communist from the North
or Viet Cong. In fact, before the Boat People came over, there were no Vietnamese gangs.

Boat people?
How do you know there were no Vietnamese gangs?
Have you studied this? What are your credentials?

 

[Shalimar]

Time was, boatloads of Jewish refugees fleeing Hitler’s Germany were turned away from both our countries. Apparently, sanctuary from hatred and violence did not apply to them.

 

[Keesha]

Time was, boatloads of Jewish refugees fleeing Hitler’s Germany were turned away from both our countries. Apparently, sanctuary from hatred and violence did not apply to them.

Yep! I just wanted to ask the question for obvious reasons.
Its shameful ( for me, personally. Just my opinion ,no more or less important )

 

[Lara]

Lara: Criminal background checks are done on all...or at least should be done.

Keesha: Seems fair enough. So shouldn’t you all be upset with your government not the people trying to get into the country? It seems there is more anger at the immigrants than the process but perhaps I’m misunderstanding :shrug:

Oh, there is plenty of anger with the government and in many ways it's their fault, and mostly their fault, but when it comes to the republicans vs democrats, conservatives vs liberals, etc...politics is forbidden in SF. So we'll have to let that one go for now.

Regarding how people feel about the immigrants personally, many are seen on TV sneaking into the US illegally via climbing walls, underground tunnels, truckloads crossing the border, etc. Many are drug traffickers. And once they get in, some never try to get US citizenship, some commit crimes...all while taking advantage of America's resources for free. They make a bad name for the honest immigrants trying to legally enter the US.

The government is the ultimate one responsible for protecting our borders but we have a country with a broken system of "checks & balances" that is keeping our leader from moving forward with his plan as fast as he'd like to.

 

[ClassicRockr]

Seems fair enough. So shouldn’t you all be upset with your government not the people trying to get into the country? It seems there is more anger at the immigrants than the process but perhaps I’m misunderstanding :shrug:



No need to put BAD in quotes?
According to the topic of this thread, it appears I should. Not too many people like organized gang criminals but will background checks be sufficient enough? The airports do background checks and it doesn’t always catch these types as we are all aware from evidence of the 911 disaster. If it’s THAT easy to understand and recognize, why is there still such a problem then?



Yes! That’s what it looks and reads like in this thread and anyone who questions this get dismissed as ‘one trick ponies.!’
That makes no sense whatsoever but hatred never did make sense to me, no matter how well disguised.



Boat people?
How do you know there were no Vietnamese gangs?
Have you studied this? What are your credentials?

First, I'm a Navy Vietnam Era Veteran and was off of the coast of Da Nang in a Destroyer Escort Group in 1969. We used our 5" guns to destroy NVA and Viet Cong military areas and "plane guarded" for the U.S.S. Kitty Hawk Aircraft Carrier. When it sent fighter jets out, and when they came back from bombing missions, we had to be "at the ready" in case something happened to one after taking off or before landing on the Carrier.

As far as my knowledge about the "Boat People", I was living in Southern California when they showed up on the shores. The story and concerns about them made big headlines in the Orange County Register newspaper. It was documented that the Vietnamese gangs, in Southern California/Garden Grove, started after the Boat People arrived around 1979 or so.

How is that for my "qualifications" on the subject?

 

[Don M.]

Thomas Jefferson "The first consideration in immigration is the welfare of the receiving nation...the influx of a large number of new immigrants unaccustomed to the gov't of a free society could be detrimental to that society. Immigration therefore must be approached carefully and cautiously."

That's Right! If a person wants to move to a new nation today, they should have the responsibility to learn the new language and customs, and make every effort to "fit in"....otherwise, everyone would be better off if they stayed where they are. My old Grandparents entered the U.S. through Ellis Island in the early 1900's, and they made every attempt to become productive members of their New Nation.

 

[JaniceM]

Seems fair enough. So shouldn’t you all be upset with your government not the people trying to get into the country? It seems there is more anger at the immigrants than the process but perhaps I’m misunderstanding :shrug:



No need to put BAD in quotes?
According to the topic of this thread, it appears I should. Not too many people like organized gang criminals but will background checks be sufficient enough? The airports do background checks and it doesn’t always catch these types as we are all aware from evidence of the 911 disaster. If it’s THAT easy to understand and recognize, why is there still such a problem then?



Yes! That’s what it looks and reads like in this thread and anyone who questions this get dismissed as ‘one trick ponies.!’
That makes no sense whatsoever but hatred never did make sense to me, no matter how well disguised.



Boat people?
How do you know there were no Vietnamese gangs?
Have you studied this? What are your credentials?

I kinda wonder if individuals who make remarks like the one you quoted have had any personal experience at all with the groups they're so much against. In some cases, it sounds downright paranoid.
The numerous Vietnamese 'Boat people' that I knew "back in the day" were good people, decent human beings- not criminals, not in gangs, and didn't hole up in their own communities like the one the poster mentioned. They blended on in with everybody else.
However, it's probably that attitude of suspicion and dislike for 'outsiders' that causes ​many immigrants to avoid trying to assimilate and stay within the safety of their own communities.

Something else came to mind after I logged off: individuals express that immigration is a matter of law&order- that immigrants are coming here 'illegally' and are 'breaking the law'- while some of those states spent 15+ years violating the Supreme Court decision on the Brown case; one reference says public schools in North Carolina didn't abide by that ruling a/k/a law until the end of 1970, and another said it was even later. And yet there are some who claim none of this has anything to do with racism!

 

[JaniceM]

First, I'm a Navy Vietnam Era Veteran and was off of the coast of Da Nang in a Destroyer Escort Group in 1968. We used our 5" guns to destroy NVA and Viet Cong military areas and "plane guarded" for the U.S.S. Kitty Hawk Aircraft Carrier. When it sent fighter jets out, and when they came back from bombing missions, we had to be "at the ready" in case something happened to one after taking off or before landing on the Carrier.

As far as my knowledge about the "Boat People", I was living in Southern California when they showed up on the shores. The story and concerns about them made big headlines in the Orange County Register newspaper. It was documented that the Vietnamese gangs, in Southern California/Garden Grove, started after the Boat People arrived around 1979 or so.

How is that for my "qualifications" on the subject?

I was there in 1976. Maybe by the time you showed up, some had got a taste of what 'Americans' thought of them.
And my brother, a Vietnam veteran who was actually in Danang in 1967-1968, fortunately never shared your attitude.

 

[JaniceM]

Why is it that it seems so many seem to hate the way we do things....and yet so many want to come here ? Then when they do [get] here they want to change the way we do things?

Why don't they all just stay home, and do things their way...in their country?

And perhaps the worst are those that do stay wherever the hell they are....but still insist in telling us what to do / what we should do?

I have heard that in some places we are referred to as the ugly Americans....gee I wonder why ?

Gotta say I agree with that.
Racism makes me sick to my stomach, but an additional 'irk' is individuals who come to the U.S. and start disrespecting America and Americans.

 

[helenbacque]

We are a nation of laws and anyone immigrating should do so according to the current laws regarding immigration. Don't like the law? Work to change it but until change, obey it.

For everyone ... if your heart is in another country, your body needs to be there as well. Don't enjoy the benefits of living in this country if your allegiance is elsewhere.

 

[ClassicRockr]

I kinda wonder if individuals who make remarks like the one you quoted have had any personal experience at all with the groups they're so much against. In some cases, it sounds downright paranoid.
The numerous Vietnamese 'Boat people' that I knew "back in the day" were good people, decent human beings- not criminals, not in gangs, and didn't hole up in their own communities like the one the poster mentioned. They blended on in with everybody else.
However, it's probably that attitude of suspicion and dislike for 'outsiders' that causes ​many immigrants to avoid trying to assimilate and stay within the safety of their own communities.

Something else came to mind after I logged off: individuals express that immigration is a matter of law&order- that immigrants are coming here 'illegally' and are 'breaking the law'- while some of those states spent 15+ years violating the Supreme Court decision on the Brown case; one reference says public schools in North Carolina didn't abide by that ruling a/k/a law until the end of 1970, and another said it was even later. And yet there are some who claim none of this has anything to do with racism!

FYI, the Boat People settled into what is, and has been, known as Little Saigon in Garden Grove, California. All the shops, stores and restaurants are run, at least when I lived there, by the Vietnamese community of Little Saigon. Another thing about them, many younger ones later, took American first names, but left their last as it was (Vietnamese). Anyone can change their first name, or have a nickname, but to change your last name, you have to explain to a Judge why you want to and then it's up to the Judge.

 

[ClassicRockr]

I was there in 1976. Maybe by the time you showed up, some had got a taste of what 'Americans' thought of them.
And my brother, a Vietnam veteran who was actually in Danang in 1967-1968, fortunately never shared your attitude.

Just what do you mean "fortunately never shared your attitude". I didn't have anything to do with the Boat People and never lived around them. However, I did work with two young brothers who were very nice. They were electronic techs and 100% bilingual in English and Vietnamese. At work, they only spoke English.

However, at another company I worked for, the smell of their fish and rice lunch warming up in a microwave drove the Vice President nuts.

 

[ClassicRockr]

Gotta say I agree with that.
Racism makes me sick to my stomach, but an additional 'irk' is individuals who come to the U.S. and start disrespecting America and Americans.

First of all, racism will never stop. You don't want to hear what my brother thinks of people from India. Heck, a black rapper has gotten into trouble for stating "slavery was a chosen thing". He has really pi**ed off the black communities and his fans think he has "flipped his gord".

Disrespecting.........yes, like the high school students I mentioned in a post that marched around carrying the Mexican flag and signs that said "Proud To Be Illegal". Oh yea, that's definitely disrespectful.

 

[ClassicRockr]

We are a nation of laws and anyone immigrating should do so according to the current laws regarding immigration. Don't like the law? Work to change it but until change, obey it.

For everyone ... if your heart is in another country, your body needs to be there as well. Don't enjoy the benefits of living in this country if your allegiance is elsewhere.

What about some of the ladies from India who will only wear their native dresses? We have one in our complex that's like that. She's the only one though. Has two son's she walks to the bus in the AM and gets them in the PM. Seems like a nice lady, but the dress tells me how much she misses India.
And, stopping at Mc Donald's a couple of weeks ago, two guys from India come in wearing turbans on their heads. They were nice and we talked to them for a moment, but they also seem to miss their country. I do sometimes wonder if the dress and turbans are a religious thing though.

Like the Vietnamese, Mexicans and some other folks from other countries here, people from India speak their native language a lot also. ​

 

[Shalimar]

What about some of the ladies from India who will only wear their native dresses? We have one in our complex that's like that. She's the only one though. Has two son's she walks to the bus in the AM and gets them in the PM. Seems like a nice lady, but the dress tells me how much she misses India.
And, stopping at Mc Donald's a couple of weeks ago, two guys from India come in wearing turbans on their heads. They were nice and we talked to them for a moment, but they also seem to miss their country. I do sometimes wonder if the dress and turbans are a religious thing though.

Like the Vietnamese, Mexicans and some other folks from other countries here, people from India speak their native language a lot also. ​

What about the Native Americans who wear their Aboriginal clothing, or the indigenous people of Alaska in their mukluks and embroidered parkas? They certainly are Americans. Then there are the Amish and ultra Orthodox Jews.

 

[rgp]

What about some of the ladies from India who will only wear their native dresses? We have one in our complex that's like that. She's the only one though. Has two son's she walks to the bus in the AM and gets them in the PM. Seems like a nice lady, but the dress tells me how much she misses India.
And, stopping at Mc Donald's a couple of weeks ago, two guys from India come in wearing turbans on their heads. They were nice and we talked to them for a moment, but they also seem to miss their country. I do sometimes wonder if the dress and turbans are a religious thing though.

Like the Vietnamese, Mexicans and some other folks from other countries here, people from India speak their native language a lot also. ​

Remember about 5-6 years back...the Muslim woman that wanted to have her drivers licence photo taken with her berkah on ! who & or what was she hiding from ? In her native land, she couldn't even drive for cryin'outloud . Now here she wants to bitch about our rules to be allowed too ? Dictate changes to our privilege ? The very privilege that she is now privileged too... I hope she went back....we don't need her.

 

[Keesha]

Oh, there is plenty of anger with the government and in many ways it's their fault, and mostly their fault, but when it comes to the republicans vs democrats, conservatives vs liberals, etc...politics is forbidden in SF. So we'll have to let that one go for now.

Regarding how people feel about the immigrants personally, many are seen on TV sneaking into the US illegally via climbing walls, underground tunnels, truckloads crossing the border, etc. Many are drug traffickers. And once they get in, some never try to get US citizenship, some commit crimes...all while taking advantage of America's resources for free. They make a bad name for the honest immigrants trying to legally enter the US.

The government is the ultimate one responsible for protecting our borders but we have a country with a broken system of "checks & balances" that is keeping our leader from moving forward with his plan as fast as he'd like to.

Yes so there is a distinction. Not all immigrants have ill intentiions but I do understand what you are referring to now. Thank you for clarifying that.

As far as my knowledge about the "Boat People", I was living in Southern California when they showed up on the shores. The story and concerns about them made big headlines in the Orange County Register newspaper. It was documented that the Vietnamese gangs, in Southern California/Garden Grove, started after the Boat People arrived around 1979 or so.

How is that for my "qualifications" on the subject?

Oh ok so you know for sure there were no Vietnamese criminal gangs before the boat people arrived because the newspaper headlines said so. Thank you.

I kinda wonder if individuals who make remarks like the one you quoted have had any personal experience at all with the groups they're so much against. In some cases, it sounds downright paranoid.
The numerous Vietnamese 'Boat people' that I knew "back in the day" were good people, decent human beings- not criminals, not in gangs, and didn't hole up in their own communities like the one the poster mentioned. They blended on in with everybody else.
However, it's probably that attitude of suspicion and dislike for 'outsiders' that causes ​many immigrants to avoid trying to assimilate and stay within the safety of their own communities.

Something else came to mind after I logged off: individuals express that immigration is a matter of law&order- that immigrants are coming here 'illegally' and are 'breaking the law'- while some of those states spent 15+ years violating the Supreme Court decision on the Brown case; one reference says public schools in North Carolina didn't abide by that ruling a/k/a law until the end of 1970, and another said it was even later. And yet there are some who claim none of this has anything to do with racism!

I’m not sure either Janice. You definitely know more about this than I do. Just the term ‘boat people’ sounds derogatory to me and I don’t even really know the full story. Anyway that’s about all I really need to know about it . I’m not passionately involved so I’ll end my inquisitiveness here.

Thank you!