LGBTQ books in public school libraries

[Nathan]

They aren’t banning either. Their objection is the use of LGBTQ material in the instruction of their children, an objection which seems to be supported by State law. What’s next, CRT in Grammar School?

These are typical fears of certain factions in society, which in fact is driving the banning of books in Florida, as well as in the State of Texas.
This school year, instances of book bans are most prevalent in Texas, Florida, Missouri, Utah, and South Carolina, see https://pen.org/report/banned-in-the-usa-state-laws-supercharge-book-suppression-in-schools/

CRT fears, feared by those wishing to suppress discussion of past and present systemic racism in American society.

As an academic topic, Critical Race Theory would be presented in a post secondary setting, at the college and university level.

 

[hearlady]

I think we've all been a little damaged by things that are too old for us to handle. Just look at the state of the world.

 

[Knight]

Religion still has an impact on how some think. But thankfully that is slowly being done away with by educating that people have different feelings about their own sexuality at a younger age.

El Castor pointed out that books are being used as educational material but this thread was about books in a library. But the point is still valid since it deals with young minds.

IMO the visual & auditory exposer to the kind of material in books is likely to make a far more impression on young minds. To that end a little Google searching found these but there are more references.
20 LGBTQ+ Shows To Watch With Kids

Romper
https://www.romper.com › lgbtq-shows-kids-family


What Netflix kids show has gay characters?
Kidscreen » Archive » Netflix, Disney leading the kids TV ...
For its part, Netflix launched several inclusive kids shows last year, including Dead End: Paranormal Park (pictured), about a gay trans boy and his pansexual co-worker. And The Dragon Prince and Princess Power and Transformers: EarthSpark also feature LGBTQ characters. Mar 21, 2023

LGBT representation in children's television​

Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › LGBT_representation...



Examples of original Netflix animated series with a large presence of LGBTQ characters include Kipo and the Age of Wonderbeasts and She-Ra and the Princesses of ...
‎LGBT representation on PBS · ‎LGBT representation on CBBC

 

[ElCastor]

These are typical fears of certain factions in society, which in fact is driving the banning of books in Florida, as well as in the State of Texas.
This school year, instances of book bans are most prevalent in Texas, Florida, Missouri, Utah, and South Carolina, see https://pen.org/report/banned-in-the-usa-state-laws-supercharge-book-suppression-in-schools/

CRT fears, feared by those wishing to suppress discussion of past and present systemic racism in American society.

As an academic topic, Critical Race Theory would be presented in a post secondary setting, at the college and university level.

As I think I have shown, the Maryland problem is not book banning, it‘s instruction in transgenderism and homosexuality to young children using books as a source for course material. As for CRT, I am not a big believer. Out here in California we have the descendants of Chinese laborers who were brought here as manual laborers to work in mines, and later to dig tunnels and lay track. Little more than slave labor. Today their descendants have a higher household income than their White neighbors. Why, because they are smarter than those neighbors.

 

[Nathan]

They're library books, not mandatory reading. Kids can check them out if they're interested, choose something else if they're not.

Thank you, goes to the heart of the topic.

 

[Warrigal]

I don't think anyone wants to get into all that with 5 yer olds, however little Johnnie, a 5-year-old might possibly have 2 daddies or 2 mommies, so the class could simply be old that there are many different families, and Johnnie's is simply another family that loves each other and little Johnnie. That should suffice until the kids are a bit older. Any discussion about sex will probably come after the kids have already discussed it among themselves and got it all wrong.

This is not something new. Children from families that do not fit the traditional stereotype have long felt excluded or different because they never heard or read about families where same sex parenting were mentioned. Author's of children's books started filling in the gaps decades ago.

What was not realised is that there were other children whose feelings for other children of the same gender were very troubling for them. It is actually very normal at certain stages of development for children to have romantic crushes for adults of the same sex. This does not necessarily mean that the child is going to be gay when they mature. What is important is that the child not be told that such thoughts/emotions are unnatural or evil.

This topic has brought up a memory from my days as a youth leader of an outward bound club. I was serving in the younger section and we had been on a bush walk on the outskirts of Sydney. One little boy looked at two girls who were sitting together and holding hands. "What are ya"? he said loudly, "a pair of lesbians"?

The leaders were all horrified and told him not to use such words.
The boy was genuinely perplexed.

"What's wrong with that?" he said. "That's just two girls who love each other."

Clearly, he had heard the word, but retained his innocence. I think a children's story, sensitively written by an established author, taking into account the ages of the readers, will do no harm at all and it might just help the minority of children who are struggling with their s3xuality.

On the other hand, I would (and have) objected to proselytising material being made available to children in schools. Teachers should be very careful about undermining parental authority.

 

[Jules]

There has to be a balance. Don’t push the books. Don’t hide them.

 

[seadoug]

My niece in Florida, at 16 y/o, is the youngest of 4 siblings. She came out to my sister-in-law on Valentine's Day by asking if it was okay that her Valentine was a girl. My sister-in-law's response was that she was happy she had a girlfriend and would support her in any way possible.

My niece is a brilliant, creative girl with a wicked sense of humor. I want to see her thrive. She has grown up with 3 gay uncles that have been together for over 30 years on her mother and father's side of the family, so she has seen love and happiness in all forms. All the kids from 16 to 24 know we are gay. We've told them stories about the first time we met. We've told them stories about their mother going out with us all decked-out before she was married.

What is happening with the book-banning is ridiculous, and kids can find anything on the internet, but I think the education and examples should start at home. I do sometimes worry about my niece because of the nonsense that is going on in Florida, but at least she has good role models to keep her grounded.

 

[Brookswood]

depends on the age of the students.

 

[Della]

Everything in a school library should be of a high quality. Schools don't put Hustler on the magazine rack and then shrug and claim that no one is being forced to read them.

In elementary school my teacher mentioned that I had read all 100 of the books in the classroom library. Not one of them talked about two kids taking their clothes off and touching each other all over. Neither did the kids in the books use words that my parents didn't use and that I wouldn't have been allowed to use in the classroom. According to the example the child is reading in the link, that's what they would find in that series of books.

This isn't about different types of families or gay acceptance. Those books have been around for awhile, these new ones are soft porn. Why? To what purpose at a very young age?

 

[Pepper]

I read Valley of the Dolls about that time as well(1968ish). I don't know where I got it, but around the age of 13~14 I read The Kama Sutra...whoa!

I read Lady Chatterley's Lover in 7th grade.....got it from the public library at my friend's recommendation.

 

[StarSong]

As an academic topic, Critical Race Theory would be presented in a post secondary setting, at the college and university level.

My son's class studied family trees in 4th grade. As a family project, each child was to create a personal family tree as best they could. Parents and grandparents were expected to got into the act of tracing back as far as possible. It was a cool, interesting project for our family.

The day the trees were due, each child stood before the class to briefly explain their trees. One of my son's friends showed a chart ending abruptly with all his great-great grandparents. He told the class that was all his family knew, because before that they were slaves who were bought and sold at will by their owners. The family had no information when his ancestors were taken from Africa, or even where in Africa they were taken from.

The worst part, my son said, that when Troy told his story, he did so with head hung low in shame and tears spilling down his cheeks. The teacher tried to intervene to soothe this tender 9 year old, but he said, "No. I want to finish."

Let me tell you, of all the genealogy accounts he heard that day Troy's was the only one to make an impression on my son. When he related Troy's family history at the dinner table that night you could have heard a pin drop. We were each stunned into silence, realizing how different our family histories were, and feeling great shame at this very long, very terrible chapter in our nation's history.

I will always be grateful that at a young age my children realized one of the many terrible legacies imposed by the injustice of slavery on our friend's family, and many, many Black Americans.

CRT is an important academic topic. Banning its teaching is little more than hiding under a blanket, fingers in our ears, trying to pretend no lasting harm has been done to the descendants of slavery.

 

[fuzzybuddy]

There's an episode of "King of the Hill", at a schoolboard meeting. Two outraged women had a petition to delete the letters "S" and "K" from the alphabet. I have a friend, who is a retired teacher. She hated parents' night. She always got helpful hints on how to teach kids and what not to teach kids. Most of the hints were illegal, or unethical, and extremely biased, and with the same intelligence of deleting S and K from the alphabet.

 

[ElCastor]

CRT is an important academic topic. Banning its teaching is little more than hiding under a blanket, fingers in our ears, trying to pretend no lasting harm has been done to the descendants of slavery.

I will have to strongly disagree. In my opinion CRT is an ill advised attempt to infect our society with an irreparable infection that will permanently divide.

“Banning CRT is neither coercive nor liberty-infringing. Rather, it is a prudent and necessary first step to salvaging a fractious nation teetering on the brink of collapse.”
https://nypost.com/2021/07/04/why-america-needs-to-ban-critical-race-theory-in-schools/

 

[Nathan]

I will have to strongly disagree. In my opinion CRT is an ill advised attempt to infect our society with an irreparable infection that will permanently divide.

“Banning CRT is neither coercive nor liberty-infringing. Rather, it is a prudent and necessary first step to salvaging a fractious nation teetering on the brink of collapse.”
https://nypost.com/2021/07/04/why-america-needs-to-ban-critical-race-theory-in-schools/

So, to put it succinctly , "ignorance is bliss", right?

There are some that assert that the Holocaust never happened, is that where our country is headed?

 

[Muskrat]

If we wait to teach children important things till college we will miss the approximately thirteen or so percentage of people who never complete their high school education. How can you fight ignorance in this country if you place facts out of reach of such a high population? We fight ignorance EVERY day in this country thru poor or lack of understanding of facts. Let us not encourage it.

 

[StarSong]

If we wait to teach children important things till college we will miss the approximately thirteen or so percentage of people who never complete their high school education. How can you fight ignorance in this country if you place facts out of reach of such a high population? We fight ignorance EVERY day in this country thru poor or lack of understanding of facts. Let us not encourage it.

Not to mention the distressingly increasing number of adults completely unwilling or incapable of engaging in critical thinking or independent research, including searching out reliable resources over meme-makers, youtubers and tik-tok influencers.

 

[ElCastor]

So, to put it succinctly , "ignorance is bliss", right?

There are some that assert that the Holocaust never happened, is that where our country is headed?

The message of CRT is not historic it is the here and now, an accusation of irreparable racial hatred. I have previously pointed out that Chinese laborers were brought to California to perform the most menial labor digging In mines, and yet today they populate our high tech industry, and their median household income exceeds that of their White neighbors. I worked in a San Francisco tech oriented occupation with a Cambodian refugee who after I retired went on to become hugely successful. He told me of one of the first Cambodian immigrants who got a job in a donut shop. He realized this was something he could do, so he and his wife gave up their apartment and lived in their car for three years, saving their money. They went on to be highly successful and owned a chain of donut shops. Today San Francisco has a problem.

“Dirty secret of black-on-Asian violence is out​

San Francisco's hidden truth is out. That's what community organizer Carol Mo calls the realization that Asian residents are being targeted for robberies, burglaries and intimidation by young black men.”
https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/nevi...of-black-on-Asian-violence-is-out-3265760.php

So why are the descendants of those Asian Chinese laborers more successful than their White and Black neighbors, and Ashkenazi Jews have won Nobel prizes far out of proportion to their numbers. Not racism. Not CRT. Median IQ.

 

[Dave03]

If you choose to take your child out of public school, you're also choosing the consequences that go along with it. Deal with it.

 

[StarSong]

The message of CRT is not historic it is the here and now, an accusation of irreparable racial hatred. I have previously pointed out that Chinese laborers were brought to California to perform the most menial labor digging In mines, and yet today they populate our high tech industry, and their median household income exceeds that of their White neighbors. I worked in a San Francisco tech oriented occupation with a Cambodian refugee who after I retired went on to become hugely successful. He told me of one of the first Cambodian immigrants who got a job in a donut shop. He realized this was something he could do, so he and his wife gave up their apartment and lived in their car for three years, saving their money. They went on to be highly successful and owned a chain of donut shops. Today San Francisco has a problem.

“Dirty secret of black-on-Asian violence is out​

San Francisco's hidden truth is out. That's what community organizer Carol Mo calls the realization that Asian residents are being targeted for robberies, burglaries and intimidation by young black men.”
https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/nevi...of-black-on-Asian-violence-is-out-3265760.php

So why are the descendants of those Asian Chinese laborers more successful than their White and Black neighbors, and Ashkenazi Jews have won Nobel prizes far out of proportion to their numbers. Not racism. Not CRT. Median IQ.

Sigh... Can't believe you think their plights were close to the same.

Asians, Whites and Ashkenazi Jews came to the US willingly, many through chain migration, and were able to build clustered, supportive communities from the very start.

There's a big difference between being a voluntary low-paid laborer and an enslaved person who was ripped from one's homeland, unable to build wealth or own property, with generations repeatedly losing all family connections when sold at will by slaveholders, living with the threat of being raped, abused, beaten or killed for running away, simply irritating the master, or no reason at all, and so forth.

Median IQ of races? Now there's a thorny, subjective topic with all manner of variables including childhood nutrition, parents' levels of education, environmental conditions including pollution, neighborhood sociological influences, testing bias based on questions posed, and so much more.

I'm not qualified to discuss that subject and am pretty sure you aren't either.

 

[Della]

There's an episode of "King of the Hill", at a schoolboard meeting. Two outraged women had a petition to delete the letters "S" and "K" from the alphabet. I have a friend, who is a retired teacher. She hated parents' night. She always got helpful hints on how to teach kids and what not to teach kids. Most of the hints were illegal, or unethical, and extremely biased, and with the same intelligence of deleting S and K from the alphabet.

Oh, yes, teachers think they're always right. When I think of some of the things they told me when I was in high school ... well Paul Simon said it best.

When my mother was in school there was no mention of sex at any age. At that time the incident of children born to unmarried women was 3%. I think it's about 40% now. Hows all that sex ed working for us?

 

[StarSong]

Oh, yes, teachers think they're always right. When I think of some of the things they told me when I was in high school ... well Paul Simon said it best.

When my mother was in school there was no mention of sex at any age. At that time the incident of children born to unmarried women was 3%. I think it's about 40% now. Hows all that sex ed working for us?

There sure were plenty of shotgun weddings though. Several in my own family - including those in the WWII generation - and more than a few among HS friends (late 60s - early 70s). Every single one of those marriages resulted in divorce, as it happened.

Let's not forget all those girls who suddenly left town for extended (ahem) visits with an out of state aunt. Several months later a local relative, friend or church menber coincidentally welcomed a new baby shortly before girl showed up at school again. Alwyas turned out the girl was hiding from the public eye at home, or was sent to an unwed mother's home to wait out her pregnancy.

Young women have far more agency today over their own lives than 50+ years ago. That's likely a bigger factor for children born to unmarried women than sex ed.

 

[Della]

There sure were plenty of shotgun weddings though. Several in my own family - including those in the WWII generation - and more than a few among HS friends (late 60s - early 70s). Every single one of those marriages resulted in divorce, as it happened.

Let's not forget all those girls who suddenly left town for extended (ahem) visits with an out of state aunt. Several months later a local relative, friend or church menber coincidentally welcomed a new baby shortly before girl showed up at school again. Alwyas turned out the girl was hiding from the public eye at home, or was sent to an unwed mother's home to wait out her pregnancy.

Young women have far more agency today over their own lives than 50+ years ago. That's likely a bigger factor for children born to unmarried women than sex ed.

Those girls who left town were still listed as unwed mothers in the hospital statistics, they make up that 3%, and the shotgun weddings usually lasted, divorce was uncommon then, but even the ones that ended in divorce assured the child had a father for a little while. Those cases you mention would never account for the vast difference in numbers between then and now.

I'm not blaming sex ed for all the difference. I'm just saying that teaching kids about something doesn't always have the result the educators think it will have. Girls now learn all about birth control, but do they actually use it? If they did, if they took control of their own bodies, there would rarely be any need for the majority of abortions. Where is all this "agency" if they can't get themselves to a clinic for a shot , or an IUD, once every three years?

We can and have raised awareness about what it means to be gay, but those kids are still bullied.

Michelle Obama went to schools to try to do something about childhood obesity and all it did was call attention to the overweight kids and make them seem to be at fault for their problems. West Virginia had already tried a program of healthy meals only, daily mandatory exercise, and classes about how to eat, and a year later their students were just as overweight as the ones in the other schools.

Teachers aren't always right.

 

[StarSong]

Those girls who left town were still listed as unwed mothers in the hospital statistics, they make up that 3%, and the shotgun weddings usually lasted, divorce was uncommon then, but even the ones that ended in divorce assured the child had a father for a little while. Those cases you mention would never account for the vast difference in numbers between then and now.

I'm not blaming sex ed for all the difference. I'm just saying that teaching kids about something doesn't always have the result the educators think it will have. Girls now learn all about birth control, but do they actually use it? If they did, if they took control of their own bodies, there would rarely be any need for the majority of abortions. Where is all this "agency" if they can't get themselves to a clinic for a shot , or an IUD, once every three years?

We can and have raised awareness about what it means to be gay, but those kids are still bullied.

Michelle Obama went to schools to try to do something about childhood obesity and all it did was call attention to the overweight kids and make them seem to be at fault for their problems. West Virginia had already tried a program of healthy meals only, daily mandatory exercise, and classes about how to eat, and a year later their students were just as overweight as the ones in the other schools.

Teachers aren't always right.

Many of today's unmarried parents cohabit. I don't judge whether they should be married. Their lives, their choice, their generational norms. Many pregnancies occurring outside of marriage are planned and desired.

In the 1970s I openly lived with my boyfriend for a year before marrying him and some relatives were aghast. My kids all lived with sig others. In some but not all cases, they wound up getting married. Nary an eyebrow was raised either way. The times and mores, they are a-changing.

Michelle Obama continues to dedicate time, energy and resources on her admirable quest for kids to eat more nutritious foods and to be healthier. I salute her ambitious goal.

As for teachers not always being right, it's unlikely anybody would disagree with that statement, least of all teachers.
By the same token, teachers aren't always wrong either.

 

[Della]

Many of today's unmarried parents cohabit. I don't judge whether they should be married. Their lives, their choice, their generational norms. Many pregnancies occurring outside of marriage are planned and desired.

In the 1970s I openly lived with my boyfriend for a year before marrying him and some relatives were aghast. My kids all lived with sig others. In some but not all cases, they wound up getting married. Nary an eyebrow was raised either way. The times and mores, they are a-changing.

Michelle Obama continues to dedicate time, energy and resources on her admirable quest for kids to eat more nutritious foods and to be healthier. I salute her ambitious goal.

As for teachers not always being right, it's unlikely anybody would disagree with that statement, least of all teachers.
By the same token, teachers aren't always wrong either.

(I haven't said a word about people living together, I don't know how that got in the mix.)

Yes the times and mores certainly are changing and we see the result in the news every day. Eighty-five percent of youths in prison come from fatherless homes. 71% of high school dropouts come from fatherless homes. 90% of all homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes. I don't "judge," people who have children without getting married either, but I feel free to think they've chosen a life style that's not best for the children.

I'm a big admirer of Michelle Obama, I think she means well, but before anyone goes around the country having assemblies to talk about the problems of certain students (and all the other kids know who they are) I think they should check and see if there's any lasting resultls to the methods they're advocating. Something like 98% of people who lose weight through diet and exercise regain it plus more. The NIH says, "Obesity interventions typically result in early rapid weight loss followed by a weight plateau and progressive regain." And with the regain comes lower self-esteem and depression. Meaning well and caring isn't good enough, she should know her subject before she makes the lives of overweight children worse.

I know teachers are often right, but this particular conversation started with someone saying how much his teacher friend hated parents, because they had (gasp) suggestions.