Yes, since they were established they have changed the date a few times, starting with 1914, then 1925, then 1975.
Peace keeps moving farther away
- Thread starter Sunny
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Debrah N.
Senior Member
- Location
- Alberta, Canada
Criticizing the brutality of Israel's government and the IDF is not anti-semitism. Besides, I'll bet Palestinian people are 'more' semitic than half the Israeli Jews. So many Israeli people look like Europeans. As for the statement, 'from the river to the sea', Israeli politicians have used the same phrase and settlers are already planning their move into Gaza at the first opportunity.
It’s Time to Confront Israel’s Version of “From the River to the Sea”. '.....the core policies of Israel’s government that over the past few decades has acted ceaselessly to ensure that “between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.” Rather than focusing on real war crimes designed to uphold Israel’s exclusive sovereignty over the entirety of historic Palestine from the river to the sea,...'
And..... Jewish settlers set their sights on Gaza beachfront
'Just ask Daniella Weiss, 78, the grandmother of Israel's settler movement, who says she already has a list of 500 families ready to move to Gaza immediately.
"I have friends in Tel Aviv," she says, "so they say, 'Don't forget to keep for me a plot near the coast in Gaza,' because it's a beautiful, beautiful coast, beautiful golden sand".
She tells them the plots on the coast are already booked......'
while Palestinians are still dying every day under the barrage of Israeli bombs and bullets. Grotesque.
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papa tiger
Well-known Member
Living stays the same and the B.S. keeps changing. Same old Same old.
All used to read a newspaper and spread by word of mouth. Months passed.
Then Radio, weeks passed. TV same stuff.
Internet, Constant crap, lies, false truth and just constant stupid video stuff. Nothing about human nature changed just the way BS spreads.
People now drive everywhere with a 14Pro hanging on the dash like a TV set. Lost in their own mind!
VaughanJB
Scrappy VIP
I was working in the industry at the advent of the internet (and what came before with BBS). I wasn't a key player or anything, just a worker. However, I remember conversations where we tried to imagine all the great things the internet was going to enable. It was a fun exercise.
Never once did I hear someone say that people would actively choose echo chambers. That they would get dumbed down. That intolerance would rise. That true debate and discussion would become fraught with bitterness, hatred, and anger. Never once. Yet here we are.
Do I blame the net? Sure. But mostly I blame the people who have allowed themselves to become radicalized. I see so many instances it's truly disappointing.
George1959
Senior Member
I think after the end of WWII there was always war between some countries. And I think that the military industial complex is fueling them. Perhaps we should stop it at first.
At the moment Poland is doing it's armament on a huge scale. It seems that the U.S. want this country as the new block against Russia.
VaughanJB
Scrappy VIP
China is expanding both its military and its capabilities big time right now.
And hate to mix and match threads and bang the drum everywhere - but capitalism dictates the Military Industrial Complex should help feed it.
It could easily be argued western business and agencies crossing borders and setting up mines, wells and sweatshops has contributed to the so called extremism.I agree. I think all the so called extremism is a direct result of Western governments opening borders to everyone and making their own law abiding citizens pay for it.
As a greenkeeper on golf courses we usually found that problems, pests and diseases had multiple causes. The bigger the problem the closer it was to a perfect storm.
VaughanJB
Scrappy VIP
I agree. I think all the so called extremism is a direct result of Western governments opening borders to everyone and making their own law abiding citizens pay for it.
You'll not be surprised to know I don't think this is a fair representation.
You have to look at this in detail, but one example is Afghanistan. Successive countries, and governments, have helped destroy the country. We must take some responsibility for this. If we're going to attack a country, destroy its infrastructure, poison its land with mines and the leftovers from depleted Uranium, then can we really criticize those who want something better/safer for their families?
Somehow there needs to be a recognition that our governments decisions have consequences, and we can't get on our high horses about sovereignty when we'd happily fly jets and bombers over someone else's land. The vast majority of Afghani's weren't involved in the ills of the country - they're the collateral damage. We, the tax payer, pay for all of it, but we're balking when it comes to solutions.
The US/UK continue to support the rebels in Syria. The war has displaced 7.5m people. What do you expect them to do? Take their wives and families into the war zone?
What I'm saying is - a migrants reasons for leaving their homeland isn't simply to enjoy the benefits of Western life, there are fundamental reasons they're moving, and too often we, as a society, as too busy hating on them to care about the root cause, of which we (by association) might be responsible.
Interesting observation, but all the aggression post WWII has come from the non-capitalist side. Korea, Vietnam, ISIS, Taliban, Russia, al-Qaeda. Capitalism doesn't dictate anything, it just is.
VaughanJB
Scrappy VIP
Well, the demand aspect of the capitalist model is a tricky one. But saying that, we're forever developing new missiles, missile systems, guns, jets, tanks, ships, and so on. Then they sell that to other side, finally returning home to say, "hey they've got this, don't you need it to?"
But the point I was really making was that the MIC is a business, and thus demands "product" is sold for profit.
I agree with a lot of this but also don't believe in the complete innocence of these people. They will choose a new country based upon who will give them the most for the least and why are these migrants all young single males of fighting age? Why are there no wives and children present?
papa tiger
Well-known Member
Someone once said in a Movie, "Someone has to Do the Presidents Dirty work", Nicholas Cage! (Lord of War 2005)
Did you see them MT the plane of firearms, Ammo and disassembled it, carting it off overnight.
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Did you see them MT the plane of firearms, Ammo and disassembled it, carting it off overnight.
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- Wassenaar Arrangement: This is a multilateral export control regime that promotes transparency and greater responsibility in transfers of conventional arms and dual-use goods and technologies.
- See there is an organization to gun running, smuggling and most likely drugs too.
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papa tiger
Well-known Member
Most likely Beaten and Raped repeatedly. No womans rights there!I agree with a lot of this but also don't believe in the complete innocence of these people. They will choose a new country based upon who will give them the most for the least and why are these migrants all young single males of fighting age? Why are there no wives and children present?
Where are the women and Children at in Afghanistan. - Bing
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Dead
Afagan womens suicide rates - Bing
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Trade
Well-known Member
Growing up and coming of age when I did I remember Duck and Cover drills in school. Having nightmares about the Russians bombing or invading us, Strontium-90 counts on the daily weather report, the U2 incident, the Cuban missle crisis, JFK assassination, RFK assasination, MLK assasination, Vietnam war, etc. etc. So to me the world today seems comparatively peaceful to me.
George1959
Senior Member
Coming back again to the beginning of the thread with the AfD bashing. In Switzerland in the newspaper "Blick" (view) was an article:
"Much of what Höcke & Co. want in Germany has long been practiced in Switzerland
A look at the AfD party manifesto shows: Behind the radical election campaign rhetoric lies a surprisingly moderate party program. Much of what the “Alternative for Germany” demands has long been a reality in Switzerland."
The article mentiones 9 items: More direct democracy, more self-determination in the EU, less visibility for Islam, no weapons for Ukraine, re-introduction of compulsory military service, abolish inheritance tax, rethinking the phase-out of nuclear power plants, strengthening the dual education system, free list voting for ballots.
https://www.blick.ch/ausland/das-pa...in-der-schweiz-laengst-gelebt-id20101255.html
And I may add that the co-chairwoman Dr. Alice Weidel (together with Tino Chrupalla) of the AfD is a lesbian politician. This is never a far-right party. It's the only existing conservative party in Germany, since the CDU (Christian Democratic Union) has moved in the left direction.
"Much of what Höcke & Co. want in Germany has long been practiced in Switzerland
A look at the AfD party manifesto shows: Behind the radical election campaign rhetoric lies a surprisingly moderate party program. Much of what the “Alternative for Germany” demands has long been a reality in Switzerland."
The article mentiones 9 items: More direct democracy, more self-determination in the EU, less visibility for Islam, no weapons for Ukraine, re-introduction of compulsory military service, abolish inheritance tax, rethinking the phase-out of nuclear power plants, strengthening the dual education system, free list voting for ballots.
https://www.blick.ch/ausland/das-pa...in-der-schweiz-laengst-gelebt-id20101255.html
And I may add that the co-chairwoman Dr. Alice Weidel (together with Tino Chrupalla) of the AfD is a lesbian politician. This is never a far-right party. It's the only existing conservative party in Germany, since the CDU (Christian Democratic Union) has moved in the left direction.
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VaughanJB
Scrappy VIP
I agree with a lot of this but also don't believe in the complete innocence of these people. They will choose a new country based upon who will give them the most for the least and why are these migrants all young single males of fighting age? Why are there no wives and children present?
There are many things here. Complete innocence? From what? If you and your family lived in a town that had burned down, what would you do to ensure your children survive? That your partner survives? You'd move, no? You'd go to where you can have a better life.
I don't see any evidence of migrants choosing "a new country based upon who will give them the most for the least". It's geographical. I mentioned Syrian migrants earlier, and most of them (3m or so) went to Turkey. Not because it was easier, but because it there.
Now, can you imagine trying to migrate from a war torn country? Can you imagine what it takes to get out of Syria? These people can't buy plane tickets. They can't drive cars along lined roads. They largely have to walk. It's a long and arduous journey. The old and the sick are not likely to be able to do it. They'll either stay behind, or die on the trip.
I'm reminded of my time working in India. I worked with a youngish woman. She had children, but they weren't with her. They lived in a village, and the distance between where she worked and where her kids were, took days to cover. So she saw them only a couple times a year. In the mean time she worked in the big city and sent money back to her village every pay day. This is way of many migrants. Someone has to go out and find work, and often who is that? Well, not in my example, but generally it's the man. Is it the old man, or the young man? Usually, the young and more able.
The distance between the capital of Syria and the capital of Turkey is around 650 miles. That's 650 miles through war torn regions, through the intrinsic danger of being around other desperate people. To do it with women (those cultures don't tend to be, erm, as equal as we're used to), and with children. How? A young man is more able not only to make the journey, but to be able to feed himself, take care of himself along the way. But with a wife and kids in tow?
Most of the migrants in the UK are from India, Pakistan, Romania and Ireland. The vast majority are law abiding, good citizens. The media doesn't run stories on those, it's always the bad apples. It gives a false impression, and feeds a bias. It's akin to my watching an season of Cops and proclaiming, "why are all Americans breaking the law? Why are they all on illegal drugs?" Preposterous, right?
Errr, not really, no.... white rural areas are loaded with them....
VaughanJB
Scrappy VIP
I feel I should also say - the migrant situation needs to be urgently addressed. What's going on right now is not supportable in the long term. We have to use bigger brains to find a solution. One of those, I think, is given these people reason to remain in their own country. However, all I see in the media is something like "ship them back! Tell them to go away!"
It'd take something for me to walk back into a war zone, or to abject poverty.
It'd take something for me to walk back into a war zone, or to abject poverty.
Brookswood
Senior Member
We seem to have forgotten that peace hangs around when deterrence is taken seriously.
Debrah N.
Senior Member
- Location
- Alberta, Canada
I think you're ignoring that Western countries have gone into other countries and attempted and frequently succeeded in changing their governments, or setting one faction against another with maybe the hope of influence or arms-length attacks on Western enemies. From Cuba to Venezuela, Iran, Libya, Egypt, Iraq, countries all over S. America.....none of your mentions were involved in those various fiascos.
And with many of them, there were handouts to Western businesses that took the form of contracts to rebuild what had been destroyed. So more supports for Western capitalism.
Debrah N.
Senior Member
- Location
- Alberta, Canada
I agree with what you've said, but what do you think is going to happen as the planet warms up and southern countries begin to have problems with supporting crops and water loss? And those issues are coming. Maybe not in the next 40 or 60 years, but it will come.
You know what they say about dark clouds and silver linings.
The Irish famine of the 19th century provided the workforce to build New York.
There's also opportunities for new migrants to contribute to a future society. Many of the kids of the Vietnamese immigrants are highly skilled professionals. In my new field of work I'm meeting some Africans who are contributing to the benefit of Australian society.
Much depends on the prevailing attitudes, flip a coin heads for optimism and hope, tails for pessimism and fear mongering.
The Irish famine of the 19th century provided the workforce to build New York.
There's also opportunities for new migrants to contribute to a future society. Many of the kids of the Vietnamese immigrants are highly skilled professionals. In my new field of work I'm meeting some Africans who are contributing to the benefit of Australian society.
Much depends on the prevailing attitudes, flip a coin heads for optimism and hope, tails for pessimism and fear mongering.
Typical whataboutism. Hard to compare an incompetent incursion into Cuba with an all out invasion by North Korea leading to 3 million deaths. And comparing Western capitalism to Communist dictatorship (or Islamic dictatorship) is like comparing apples to dog poop.
Immigration does provide benefits, but the Irish and the Vietnamese came here legally. We can't remain a free and stable country without a greater measure of control over who enters and remains here. We don't need a border wall, just Canadian-style controls over who comes in and who gets to stay. The current system, or lack of system, is a form of insanity.
Paco Dennis
SF VIP
- Location
- Mid-Missouri
ALL powerful countries, no matter what their form of government have been responsible for billions of deaths. There is plenty of evidence that capitalism has killed billions of people in other countries in it's aggressions. The same is true for Communist aggressions. So the comparison shows us that we still are motivated by competition,. Maybe we will learn someday that cooperation works much better than war.
56 minutes to learn the truth.