Pope against capital punishment
- Thread starter Sunny
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Don M.
SF VIP
- Location
- central Missouri
When some fool commits murder, or a similarly vicious act, the evidence is undeniable, and the fool even admits to his act, I see no reason to warehouse him for decades, and make his lawyers rich with endless appeals...at taxpayer expense. Our dollars would be FAR better spent on using those billions of dollars to help those who are truly trying to better their lives.
There isn't much I agree with regarding Sharia Law, but I think Islam has it correct in NOT pandering to criminals.
There isn't much I agree with regarding Sharia Law, but I think Islam has it correct in NOT pandering to criminals.
Falcon
DV8
- Location
- So. California
I agree with you Don M.
Falcon
DV8
- Location
- So. California
Being an atheist, I couldn't give two hoots what the pope says (Or even THINKS !)
C'est Moi
Dishin' it out.
- Location
- Houston Y'all
Ditto. Not even a blip on my radar.
Yes, but millions upon millions do, so what affects them will necessarily affect you. Just think about elections and how the outcome does affect people's lives. I'm sure you've heard that no man is an island.
Slippery slope, anybody?
The way I understood this statement is that the Pope feels that those who are anti choice yet pro death penalty are hypocrites, because he says all life is of value not just the life of fetuses and it's as wrong to execute a person as it is to kill a fetus. I don't know how conservative Catholics will feel about this which is why I believe it will create a conundrum for many.
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Aunt Bea
SF VIP
- Location
- Near Mount Pilot
I honestly don't know how I feel but I'm glad the Pope is forcing a discussion with his latest comments.
I have seen cases where basically good people commit murder and IMO are no threat to society as a result of their crime.
I have also seen cases where the killer was an evil monster that has no place in society.
I'm just not comfortable with a one size fits all policy when it comes to murder so I suppose I would lean towards life in prison over capital punishment.
I have seen cases where basically good people commit murder and IMO are no threat to society as a result of their crime.
I have also seen cases where the killer was an evil monster that has no place in society.
I'm just not comfortable with a one size fits all policy when it comes to murder so I suppose I would lean towards life in prison over capital punishment.
Big Horn
Member
- Location
- Cody, Wyoming
Japan has a very low violent crime rate. They execute by hanging.
IKE
Well-known Member
- Location
- Oklahoma....U.S.A.
Totally agree.
Aunt Bea
SF VIP
- Location
- Near Mount Pilot
Is the low violent crime rate in Japan due to execution by hanging, tight gun controls, cultural differences, etc...
Good point, Bea.
About the Pope, I think his opinion and influence are enormously important. His views on this and other subjects can sway the opinions and policies of many countries. (And for the record,
I also am an atheist.)
I say, good for him! It's nice to see at least part of the world moving in the direction of civilized behavior.
About the Pope, I think his opinion and influence are enormously important. His views on this and other subjects can sway the opinions and policies of many countries. (And for the record,
I also am an atheist.)
I say, good for him! It's nice to see at least part of the world moving in the direction of civilized behavior.
Falcon
DV8
- Location
- So. California
God actually said that ?
Leviticus 20:15 is an example.
Can you imagine the secular headlines if the pope advocated that law?
It would also gut the Catholic priesthood.
Falcon
DV8
- Location
- So. California
Someone please explain this to me: Just exactly IS/WAS this "God" people talk about?
Is he a person or WHAT ? I sorta believe in Jesus Christ, but this "God" is a mystery !
Wasn't it Lenin who said, "God did not make man. MAN made God!
And I'm going with that.
Is he a person or WHAT ? I sorta believe in Jesus Christ, but this "God" is a mystery !
Wasn't it Lenin who said, "God did not make man. MAN made God!
And I'm going with that.
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
I commend the Pope for this edict. Judicial murder is barbaric and prone to error.
The accusation of heresy because there are passages in the Torah that mandate capital punishment does not hold up.
A few Google searches will provide a wealth of reading but I would refer members to this particular page which outlines different Christian denominations' views on the Old Covenant and the Law of Moses.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_the_Old_Covenant#Catholic
The accusation of heresy because there are passages in the Torah that mandate capital punishment does not hold up.
A few Google searches will provide a wealth of reading but I would refer members to this particular page which outlines different Christian denominations' views on the Old Covenant and the Law of Moses.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_the_Old_Covenant#Catholic
Shalimar
SF VIP
- Location
- Vancouver Island Canada
“Judicial murder is barbaric and prone to error.” Absolutely.
.
Compare then and now
Flashback: Pope condemns ‘horrendous crime’ of sodomy, hands guilty clerics to secular authorities
" The year was 1568, but the situation in the Catholic Church was uncomfortably similar to our own. After many decades of corruption and moral decadence, the Church faced the scandal of a clergy who were widely reputed to be involved in the “horrendous crime” of sodomy. When the saintly Pope Pius V was elected in in 1566, he decided to act. "
*
" Pope Pius V immediately sought to address the crisis upon his accession to the papal throne. In 1566, the year of his election, he issued a reform bull, Cum primum, which sought to suppress clerical vice, including sodomy. In paragraph 11, the bull stated, “If anyone perpetrates the nefarious crime against nature, because of which the wrath of God came up on the children of unbelief, they are to be turned over to the secular court, and if they are a cleric, they are to be stripped of all [clerical] order and to be subjected to a similar penalty.” However, this provision appears not to have had the effect desired by the pontiff.
Two years later, Pope Pius V issued a new decree directed solely against the practice of sodomy among the clergy. It was titled Horrendum illud scelus – “That horrendous crime,” for which the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by God.
“That horrendous crime, for which polluted and filthy cities were burned by the frightful judgment of God, pains Us most bitterly, and gravely stirs our soul, so that, insofar as it is possible, we might strive to crush it,” wrote Pius.
Pius noted that the Third Lateran Council (1179) had decreed that those clerics guilty of sodomy, the crime for which “the wrath of God came upon the children of unbelief,” were to be confined in monasteries or be removed from the clerical order altogether. However, the pope expressed his concern that such a penalty was too mild, particularly for those who “do not fear the death of the soul.”
“Lest the contagion of such a disgrace, from the hope of impunity – which is the greatest incentive to sin – strengthen in boldness, we have decided that the clerics who are guilty of this nefarious crime are to be more gravely punished, so that the avenger of the civil laws, the secular sword, might certainly deter those who do not fear the death of the soul,” wrote Pius.
He therefore decreed that “any and all priests and other secular and regular Clergy of whatever grade and dignity who practice such a dire sin we deprive of every clerical privilege, and of every Ecclesiastical office, dignity, and benefit, by the authority of the present canon,” and added that they should then be “handed over to the secular power, which may exact from them that same punishment that is received by laity who have fallen into this ruin, which is found to be constituted in legitimate ordinances.”
At that time, the “legitimate ordinances” of many jurisdictions in Europe decreed death, castration, or forfeiture of one’s property for the crime of sodomy."
more at link
https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/...ndous-crime-of-sodomy-hands-guilty-clerics-to
.
Compare then and now
Flashback: Pope condemns ‘horrendous crime’ of sodomy, hands guilty clerics to secular authorities
" The year was 1568, but the situation in the Catholic Church was uncomfortably similar to our own. After many decades of corruption and moral decadence, the Church faced the scandal of a clergy who were widely reputed to be involved in the “horrendous crime” of sodomy. When the saintly Pope Pius V was elected in in 1566, he decided to act. "
*
" Pope Pius V immediately sought to address the crisis upon his accession to the papal throne. In 1566, the year of his election, he issued a reform bull, Cum primum, which sought to suppress clerical vice, including sodomy. In paragraph 11, the bull stated, “If anyone perpetrates the nefarious crime against nature, because of which the wrath of God came up on the children of unbelief, they are to be turned over to the secular court, and if they are a cleric, they are to be stripped of all [clerical] order and to be subjected to a similar penalty.” However, this provision appears not to have had the effect desired by the pontiff.
Two years later, Pope Pius V issued a new decree directed solely against the practice of sodomy among the clergy. It was titled Horrendum illud scelus – “That horrendous crime,” for which the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by God.
“That horrendous crime, for which polluted and filthy cities were burned by the frightful judgment of God, pains Us most bitterly, and gravely stirs our soul, so that, insofar as it is possible, we might strive to crush it,” wrote Pius.
Pius noted that the Third Lateran Council (1179) had decreed that those clerics guilty of sodomy, the crime for which “the wrath of God came upon the children of unbelief,” were to be confined in monasteries or be removed from the clerical order altogether. However, the pope expressed his concern that such a penalty was too mild, particularly for those who “do not fear the death of the soul.”
“Lest the contagion of such a disgrace, from the hope of impunity – which is the greatest incentive to sin – strengthen in boldness, we have decided that the clerics who are guilty of this nefarious crime are to be more gravely punished, so that the avenger of the civil laws, the secular sword, might certainly deter those who do not fear the death of the soul,” wrote Pius.
He therefore decreed that “any and all priests and other secular and regular Clergy of whatever grade and dignity who practice such a dire sin we deprive of every clerical privilege, and of every Ecclesiastical office, dignity, and benefit, by the authority of the present canon,” and added that they should then be “handed over to the secular power, which may exact from them that same punishment that is received by laity who have fallen into this ruin, which is found to be constituted in legitimate ordinances.”
At that time, the “legitimate ordinances” of many jurisdictions in Europe decreed death, castration, or forfeiture of one’s property for the crime of sodomy."
more at link
https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/...ndous-crime-of-sodomy-hands-guilty-clerics-to
.
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
I'm not sure what this post signifies. Compare 1568 to 2018? To what end?
Leonie
Member
- Location
- Queensland, Australia
I'm old enough to remember when we last executed a man here in Australia, and I protested against it then. My view hasn't changed much over the years. There have been some horrific crimes here that shook my belief a little, but not enough to change it.
These days my major objection is the chance, no matter how small, of getting it wrong and executing an innocent person.
Many studies have been done on the subject over the years and to my knowledge, most of them show that the death penalty doesn't work as a deterrent anyway.
The only good thing I could say about it is that a particular murderer sentenced to death could never kill again. Unfortunately, I can think of at least one example where that did happen here, a child killer who finished his sentence and was released only to kill another child.
These days my major objection is the chance, no matter how small, of getting it wrong and executing an innocent person.
Many studies have been done on the subject over the years and to my knowledge, most of them show that the death penalty doesn't work as a deterrent anyway.
The only good thing I could say about it is that a particular murderer sentenced to death could never kill again. Unfortunately, I can think of at least one example where that did happen here, a child killer who finished his sentence and was released only to kill another child.