Race/Racism discussion

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Good thread. I'd like to add my own two cents worth. I was born in 1946 and had the good fortune to spend my early youth on a farm in Michigan. This thread has caused me to try and figure out what the essential "forces" are that drive racism. I am absolutely convinced that racism is TAUGHT, and not a "natural" part of human thinking. It seems to me that the two driving forces are FEAR and EGO or a combination of the two. I think it is natural to be wary (fear) of the unknown (people or circumstances) until you have had some instruction or personal experience which allows you to form your own ideas about the nature is of this unknown thing. If you are very lucky your experience and/or your outside advice about this unknown thing will be positive and reassuring and will encourage you to embrace this (currently) unknown thing into your 'world'. I was so greatly blessed to have a mother who CLEARLY instructed me that racism was not only unkind but also patently stupid. I mean, after all, how STUPID is it to decide what a thing, and especially a person, is before you know anything about them?

However, if you've had the misfortune of being raised in an environment that teaches you that "some" other people are BAD or dangerous, what chance do you have of developing a balanced view of these "other" people? A child has no choice but to believe what his parents' behavior is teaching him. A child has no basis with which to challenge the accuracy of the world view being presented to him by the environment in which he lives. This works both ways; white to black and black to white. HOPEFULLY this imagined child will have the opportunity to move out into the greater world, taste different ideas, and be inspired to heal the infected opinions forced upon him in the past.

The other influence is EGO. The impulse to look down on other people, to consider yourself superior, to believe that you are inherently 'special', more deserving, more worthy, etc. etc. etc. can be very seductive. I don't think it's as prevalent or powerful as FEAR, but it's there.

That's my two cents worth.
 

Shalimar said:
Gotta love Randian economics. Did you know, that la Rand was poor in her latter years and actually accepted money from the gov't?
Click to expand...

Yeah, she chained smoked cigarettes and then came down with cancer, so she got on that terrible socialized medicine program, Medicare.
 
hearlady said:
YES it does make me uncomfortable to talk about race yet I'm fascinated. I do want to understand and I'm wise enough to believe what makes sense. That's why I'd rather talk to people than listen to what media tells me.
I've learned a lot in my small diverse world. Still learning.
There is a video circulating to explain white privilege. Everyone starts at the beginning then as questions are asked such as "Do you live in a household with two parents?". As the questions are asked more and more are left behind.
I'm genuinely asking why are there so many single parent families in the back community? What happened? It wasn't always that way was it?
Click to expand...

Wow, this is a good question.

Many people feel that black women have kids out of wedlock so they can get more welfare money. I don't see it that way.

1) Black men and especially young women have been very careless about birth control.
2) Many black women of various ages have the "I must have a man" mindset.
3) Often the girls/women think if they have a guy's baby he will marry them or at least stick around. Often the guy makes promises. HA! But when the guy disappears the girl thinks "well, at least I have a part of him".
4) Sometimes the guys and girls live in a cycle....they grew up with no male in the house, so they figure what the heck.

imo those are some of the reasons.
 

applecruncher said:
A couple of terms I never hear anymore, but heard my parents use when I was very young (teen).

Splib - my father is the only person I every heard use this word. He sometimes would say to one of my younger brothers "Stop acting like a splib." What he meant was that brother was "messin' up", acting like one of the high school drop-outs who hung out with a group on a street corner.

splib/category.php?category=unknown
In the mid 60's, while in the Marine Corps, the term splib was used commonly among black and white marines. It was not used in a pejorative way by either blacks or whites but as a "hip", descriptive way of identifying a person, usually a male, of the ***** race, such as in the phrase "splib dude". Likewise the descriptive and non-pejorative term "chuck" was used to describe a white person, however it was also used to describe the Viet Cong (VC), such as in "Victor Charlie", "Charlie" or just "Chuck" In fact, one might get vanilla or chocolate creme filled cookies that were included in the field "C" rations. These were commonly referred to as "chuck" or "splib" cookies.


Hilligan - my mother used this term, but not very often. It's a combination of hooligan and hillbilly. Kinda like people Jeff Foxworthy referred to as rednecks.

Definition. Appalachian American. A PC term for any number of Americans who by region, decent or choice are hillbillies, hilljacks.
Click to expand...

In my opinion one of the nastiest terms I have heard used for black people is "Porch Monkeys". Are you familiar with that one?
 
Oh well. In for a penny, in for a pound.

Any white person my age who says they never saw any racism is a lying dog.

I had a coworker and friend back in the late 70's that was a member of the Klu Klux Klan. And he wasn't a cracker or a redneck. He was from upstate New York and his family had moved down to Lakeland, Florida when he was in his teens. He was as nice a guy as you would ever want to meet until he got on one subject. We also had a very liberal Jew who had a masters degree from Brandeis and a half black daughter from his first marriage working in the same office. And the funny thing was they were sort of friends and they teased each other back and forth. John, that was the guy who was in the Klan would go to Klan meetings on Wednesday night. He called it meeting with "The Boys". and on Thursdays he would come in amped up and ranting about stuff they had discussed at the meeting. Mostly right wing anti-government stuff and racist stuff. I can't remember him ever using the word "******" though. I suppose he did, but his favorite term was "Those colored devils". I remember one morning he came in and started talking about how they had played the movie "Birth of a Nation" at last nights meeting and he was telling us about what a great movie it was. We were on the second floor of this building and there was some kind of social services office on the first floor.

One time I remember John looking out the window and there was a black guy walking accross the parking area and John started up, "Look at that colored devil out there wearing 80 dollar shoes (that was a lot back then) going to pick up his welfare check." The guy started looking around probably wandering which door to go in and John said "He's probably looking for something to steal" He also used to tell this story about how when he was in High School he and some of his friends were driving around Lake Hollings worth and they saw a black guy walking along the road . So they stopped the car got out, dragged him down to the lake and threw him in. Whenever John would get on one of those kicks Alan would just roll his eyes, shake his head and say "John, you are so full of shit".

To me it was just hilarious to watch them play off of each other. It was sort of joking, but also sort of serious. And I would get in on it too. I have to admit I enjoyed teasing Alan. I didn't get in so much on the racist stuff but I would tease him with the right wing anti-government stuff. I was actually voting Republican back then. Later I became a Democrat and now I'm pretty much a Bernie Sanders Socialist. So I've made quite a journey.

I had this American Flag pin from when I was in the Air Force and I would goose step around the office squaring all my corner and saluting just to aggravate Alan. You might wonder how we had all this time on our hands. Well this was a government job, for the Florida Department of Transportation and when I first started our workload was minimal. When I first arrived there one of my coworkers said "We have to set a stake to see if we're moving" So we had time on our hands.

I was actually voting Republican back then. Later I became a Democrat and now I'm pretty much a Bernie Sanders Socialist. So I've made quite a journey.

Anyway, it wasn't too long before Alan moved on to another job. I can still remember how he would sit at his desk and roll his eyes and mutter "this is unbearable". But I stayed because I enjoyed having a "light" workload. I used to car pool with Alan because he lived near me. One day on the way home he asked me "How much work do you think you did today" and I answered "Oh, maybe an hours worth" And he turned to me and said "what did you do for an hour's work" and I had to admit, I was stumped. I couldn't come up with anything.

But I digress. This story is about my coworker John who was in the KKK.
At that time State of Florida had a program where they would pay tuition at a state college or university for any employees taking college courses. And John started to go part time nights at the local junior college. At the time the courses did not even have to be job related for the state to pay the tuition. So he started taken a lot of liberal arts stuff. The more he took these courses the more mellow he got. Eventually he finished an A.A degree and started driving over to the University of South Florida for upper division classes. By that time he was reading Carlos Casteneda books. He even got me reading them. That Dude was far out. John bought into it more than I did. He actually believed some of that stuff. I chalked it up to the peyote buttons they kept eating in those books.
Anyway it took him about 8 years but he finally got a bachelor's degree in Anthropology. By that time he was also reading books by Swami Vivekananda, which I tried but could not hack, and he was pretty much a new age hippie type. He had long since abandoned the KKK and racism.

I guess the moral of the story is that people can change. Whenever I hear some right winger complain about how liberal colleges and universities poison the minds of young people by indoctrination I think about how college changed John.
 
BobF said:
I grew up in northern Ohio, near lake Erie, and race was not a problem here. No special rest rooms, my grand mother rented rooms to students and she did have blacks included. As far as I knew there was no racism in the US.

But not far south, in Cincinnati at a bus stop I found 'colored' restrooms. Later on while in the Army and stationed in Virginia I was on a bus and sitting down about half way back I saw a lot of blacks standing while seats around me were empty. I guess there was some sort of rule about no blacks could sit ahead of a white person. I was slowly learning about race separation. I stopped in a motel in Alabama or Georgia one time, and asked for a room. I was refused as I was 'white' and this was a 'black' neighbor hood.

So glad times have changed and things are much smoother now. Still have some problems in major cities.

I did not know about race problems as a kid. Found out while in the Army and moving in southern cities and states in the 1950's. I was in Ft Knox KY, Ft Gordon GA, and Ft Monroe VA.
Click to expand...

Back in about 1980 a couple from Ohio, I don't know where in Ohio, moved in next door to us in Winter Haven Florida. They invited my wife and I (this would be my first wife who was white) over for a meet the new neighbors thing. The guy was going to be the new service manager at the Goodyear place in Bartow. Anyway. I guess as an ice breaker and maybe because the guy thinks that since he's in the south now he needs to try to fit in, starts off with a joke.

And the Joke goes like this "What's the different between a ****** and a bucket of shit"

And the answer is "The bucket". Now both my wife and I sort of cringed but neither of us said anything and from then on we didn't have much to do with them, but we didn't call them out either. We should have.

On the other hand when I was in the Air Force at Columbus AFB Mississippi I worked for a guy from Ohio named Staff Sergeant Zimmerman. Same last name as George Zimmerman but I can not remember him ever saying or doing anything racist. All that dude cared about was football. Football football football 24/7. I guess football is big in Ohio.

On the other hand I worked for a while under a Staff Sergeant Weathersby who was from Mississippi. Now that guy was racist to the bone. We used to do physical exams for area ROTC programs. Whenever we had a group of kids from one of the black colleges, like Mississippi Valley State, he would make a big production out of walking around the room after they left spraying it with air freshener that he kept in his desk.

Man, this is only the tip of the iceberg of the stuff I remember. I have seen a lot of racism in my time. And I usually went along with it, or didn't call anyone out on it.
 
Here’s a better question, applecruncher (and thank you in advance):

[Earlier I asked: Imagine that a great majority of people (let’s say upwards of 80%) finally get it…Racial prejudice exists only among tiny, insignificant groups, and they are fading fast…what is the next step?]

In that example, I suppose the next step would be that we go on and enjoy our lives free from the destruction and pain of racial prejudice.

So, I think a more relevant question is; How will we know we are there?
 
Trade said:
Oh well. In for a penny, in for a pound.

Any white person my age who says they never saw any racism is a lying dog.

I had a coworker and friend back in the late 70's that was a member of the Klu Klux Klan. And he wasn't a cracker or a redneck. He was from upstate New York and his family had moved down to Lakeland, Florida when he was in his teens. He was as nice a guy as you would ever want to meet until he got on one subject. We also had a very liberal Jew who had a masters degree from Brandeis and a half black daughter from his first marriage working in the same office. And the funny thing was they were sort of friends and they teased each other back and forth. John, that was the guy who was in the Klan would go to Klan meetings on Wednesday night. He called it meeting with "The Boys". and on Thursdays he would come in amped up and ranting about stuff they had discussed at the meeting. Mostly right wing anti-government stuff and racist stuff. I can't remember him ever using the word "******" though. I suppose he did, but his favorite term was "Those colored devils". I remember one morning he came in and started talking about how they had played the movie "Birth of a Nation" at last nights meeting and he was telling us about what a great movie it was. We were on the second floor of this building and there was some kind of social services office on the first floor.

One time I remember John looking out the window and there was a black guy walking accross the parking area and John started up, "Look at that colored devil out there wearing 80 dollar shoes (that was a lot back then) going to pick up his welfare check." The guy started looking around probably wandering which door to go in and John said "He's probably looking for something to steal" He also used to tell this story about how when he was in High School he and some of his friends were driving around Lake Hollings worth and they saw a black guy walking along the road . So they stopped the car got out, dragged him down to the lake and threw him in. Whenever John would get on one of those kicks Alan would just roll his eyes, shake his head and say "John, you are so full of shit".

To me it was just hilarious to watch them play off of each other. It was sort of joking, but also sort of serious. And I would get in on it too. I have to admit I enjoyed teasing Alan. I didn't get in so much on the racist stuff but I would tease him with the right wing anti-government stuff. I was actually voting Republican back then. Later I became a Democrat and now I'm pretty much a Bernie Sanders Socialist. So I've made quite a journey.

I had this American Flag pin from when I was in the Air Force and I would goose step around the office squaring all my corner and saluting just to aggravate Alan. You might wonder how we had all this time on our hands. Well this was a government job, for the Florida Department of Transportation and when I first started our workload was minimal. When I first arrived there one of my coworkers said "We have to set a stake to see if we're moving" So we had time on our hands.

I was actually voting Republican back then. Later I became a Democrat and now I'm pretty much a Bernie Sanders Socialist. So I've made quite a journey.

Anyway, it wasn't too long before Alan moved on to another job. I can still remember how he would sit at his desk and roll his eyes and mutter "this is unbearable". But I stayed because I enjoyed having a "light" workload. I used to car pool with Alan because he lived near me. One day on the way home he asked me "How much work do you think you did today" and I answered "Oh, maybe an hours worth" And he turned to me and said "what did you do for an hour's work" and I had to admit, I was stumped. I couldn't come up with anything.

But I digress. This story is about my coworker John who was in the KKK.
At that time State of Florida had a program where they would pay tuition at a state college or university for any employees taking college courses. And John started to go part time nights at the local junior college. At the time the courses did not even have to be job related for the state to pay the tuition. So he started taken a lot of liberal arts stuff. The more he took these courses the more mellow he got. Eventually he finished an A.A degree and started driving over to the University of South Florida for upper division classes. By that time he was reading Carlos Casteneda books. He even got me reading them. That Dude was far out. John bought into it more than I did. He actually believed some of that stuff. I chalked it up to the peyote buttons they kept eating in those books.
Anyway it took him about 8 years but he finally got a bachelor's degree in Anthropology. By that time he was also reading books by Swami Vivekananda, which I tried but could not hack, and he was pretty much a new age hippie type. He had long since abandoned the KKK and racism.

I guess the moral of the story is that people can change. Whenever I hear some right winger complain about how liberal colleges and universities poison the minds of young people by indoctrination I think about how college changed John.
Click to expand...

It's lucky for John he didn't meet a disciple of the Jonestown Institute.
 
Trade said:
...........Any white person my age who says they never saw any racism is a lying dog.............
Click to expand...

And any white person who says racism hasn't affected them needs to be reminded that they BENEFITED from racism.

If that sounds judgmental, so be it. So, I'm judgmental.
 
@Cap'nSacto

You asked me a question earlier today, and I said I needed to think about it.

I found this:

http://www.wedonteatanimals.com/blog/5-things-everyone-can-do-heal-americas-racism

5 THINGS EVERYONE CAN DO TO HEAL AMERICA'S RACISM

1. ACKNOWLEDGE THE GAP
Admit, at least to yourself, that you probably don't know too much about the experience of people of color—unless you have, over great lengths of time, repeatedly put yourself in environments where you are the racial minority, away from the watchful eye of white society. Admission is the first step to recovery.

2. READ & WATCH
Educate yourself on African American history. If you don't intentionally seek out the history of all peoples of color, in fact, you can not possibly know American history at all, nor the real context and implications of race today. To get you started, these are just a few of my most beloved, mind-blowing, life-changing resources that cover a great span of time.
• The Souls of Black Folk by W.E.B. Du Bois
• Race Rebels: Culture Politics, and the Black Working Class by Robin D.G. Kelley
• Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass; Narrative of Sojourner Truth; The Light of Truth: Writings of an Anti-Lynching Crusader: Ida B. Wells
• Watch documentation of anti-racism activist Jane Elliot's "Blue-Eyed Brown-Eyed" workshops—they are some of the most powerful demonstrations of the insidious nature of racism on both the "superior" and oppressed sides. See what happens when she discriminates against a group of people based on eye color, lowers her expectations of them, and breaks their confidence as they live down to those expectations:
• How Racist Are You? Part I (11 min)
• The Angry Eye (51 min)
Purchase the "Blue-Eyed" documentary on Jane Elliot for diversity training purposes here.

3. INTEGRATE
Because of the intersections of race and class, our schools have become largely segregated once again. We have to integrate ourselves if we want our generation and the next to be brothers and sisters. If you or your kids have extracurriculars, hobbies, or after school activities, for example, try doing them in a neighborhood you wouldn't normally venture to—not once or twice like you're on some exoticized safari, but for extended periods of time—to build relationships, friendships, networks, and communities. If this sounds scary to you, the problem of racism and its effect on your life should be appearing clearer. See #1 again.

4. STOP SUGAR-COATING
Stop telling kids that "everyone is equal" and start explaining America's history of inequality, what's going on in the news, and—outrightly and clearly—why racism is sick and wrong. Teach your kids to identify and stand in solidarity with just causes, collectives, ideas, and people.

5. CHOOSE YOUR ACTIVISM THOUGHTFULLY
Don't toss around trendy hashtags nor assume you know what any community needs or wants, or what is good for them. Some of the most useless activism I've seen happens when outsiders come into a neighborhood and start offering services that have nothing to do with the real needs of the community. Listen, read, and find out what the many different voices in the community are saying, and only then become a soldier for what you find fair and just.


(I especially like #4. It's not enough to say "people need to treat each other with respect"....THAT goes without saying. Those are just words, not a solution. I could add more to the above list, but maybe later)

Also, my personal list of books recommended for reading:

The Autobiography of Malcolm X - by Alex Haley
The Algiers Motel Incident - by John Hershey
Night - by Elie Wiesel (about life in Nazi concentration camp)
Kaffir Boy - by Mark Mathabane (growing up in apartheid South Africa)
 
Trade said:
Back in about 1980 a couple from Ohio, I don't know where in Ohio, moved in next door to us in Winter Haven Florida. They invited my wife and I (this would be my first wife who was white) over for a meet the new neighbors thing. The guy was going to be the new service manager at the Goodyear place in Bartow. Anyway. I guess as an ice breaker and maybe because the guy thinks that since he's in the south now he needs to try to fit in, starts off with a joke.

And the Joke goes like this "What's the different between a ****** and a bucket of shit"

And the answer is "The bucket". Now both my wife and I sort of cringed but neither of us said anything and from then on we didn't have much to do with them, but we didn't call them out either. We should have.

On the other hand when I was in the Air Force at Columbus AFB Mississippi I worked for a guy from Ohio named Staff Sergeant Zimmerman. Same last name as George Zimmerman but I can not remember him ever saying or doing anything racist. All that dude cared about was football. Football football football 24/7. I guess football is big in Ohio.

On the other hand I worked for a while under a Staff Sergeant Weathersby who was from Mississippi. Now that guy was racist to the bone. We used to do physical exams for area ROTC programs. Whenever we had a group of kids from one of the black colleges, like Mississippi Valley State, he would make a big production out of walking around the room after they left spraying it with air freshener that he kept in his desk.

Man, this is only the tip of the iceberg of the stuff I remember. I have seen a lot of racism in my time. And I usually went along with it, or didn't call anyone out on it.
Click to expand...

Well, Trade, I once new Bartow pretty well. I had an Aunt and Uncle that lived there after his finishing his Army career. He spent the WWII years in Europe, was in the Battle of the Bulge, and after the war he kept putting in for overseas duty. He grew up in Alabama but wanted to retire in Florida and started that in Bartow. His wife was my mothers sister so we often had chances to stop in and visit.

I liked Florida as a 'snow bird' but later on my job took me there to Boca Raton and after about 5 years I tired of the humidity, heat, bugs and pests of all sizes and seriousness and was happy to follow my job on to Colorado.
 
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BobF said:
Well, Trade, I once new Bartow pretty well. I had and Aunt and Uncle that lived there after his finishing his Army career. He spent the WWII years in Europe, was in the Battle of the Bulge, and after the war he kept putting in for overseas duty. He grew up in Alabama but wanted to retire in Florida and started that in Bartow. His wife was my mothers sister so we often had chances to stop in and visit.
Click to expand...

Really?

When was that?

When I first went to work for FDOT in 1976 they had us in a building on US 17 South that was known as "The old bait factory" because at one time they had made artificial fishing lures there. Are you familiar with it? Was it a bait factory when you went there? I was in the Planning Department and we were the red headed stepchild of the FDOT and we didn't rate space in the main building at the corner of US 98 and SR 60. If you were there before 1970 the name would have been the State Road Department. It was changed to the Florida Department of Transportation later.
 
I agree with your 5 things, applecruncher.

However, treating people with respect are not just words.

One day I had 2 retired black teachers in my waiting room. They recognized each other and got to talking. One was a man and had retired many years ago. The woman retired many years ago but came back and was still working last I knew.
They talked about how horrible the teenagers were these days. "Twenty years ago if you got in trouble at school you got in trouble at home. Now they make fun of my clothes, they curse at me and if they get punished the parents come and threaten me. They have no respect for anyone. "

They have no respect for themselves. Learning respect for yourself and others IS part of the solution.
 
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I appreciate the OP's honesty in her attack on Whites in her last post. I have no competing selection of half literate nonsense to offer in return, but I can offer a glimpse into our history. And yeah, these books use big words.

https://www.amazon.com/March-Titans...974230332/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

Of course, we must never forget Gibbon. I prefer the Modern Library edition, but I'm listing another because it has more reviews.

https://www.amazon.com/Decline-Empi...keywords=decline+and+fall+of+the+roman+empire

This is an interesting item. A scholarly work used in many university courses, it has been nonetheless subjected to intense attacks.

https://www.amazon.com/Search-Indo-...1508541062&sr=1-1&keywords=the+indo-europeans
 
hearlady said:
I agree with your 5 things, applecruncher.

Treating people with respect are not just words.

One day I had 2 retired black teachers in my waiting room. They recognized each other and got to talking. One was a man and had retired many years ago. The woman retired many years ago but came back and was still working last I knew.
They talked about how horrible the teenagers were these days. "Twenty years ago if you got in trouble at school you got in trouble at home. Now they make fun of my clothes, they curse at me and if they get punished the parents come and threaten me. They have no respect for anyone.

They have no respect for themselves. Learning respect for yourself and others IS part of the solution.
Click to expand...

@hearlady

The list of 5 things is not MY 5 things. It's excerpted from an article, the source was given in post #188 via a link.

Apparently I didn't make myself clear. At no time did I say that people should not respect themselves and others. So please don't even try to imply that I said that.

What I did say was that simply saying "we should treat each other with respect" is NOT, in and of itself, a solution to the world's racial problems. Those ARE just words. Like Rodney King's "Can't we all just get along".

I don't know how to make myself clearer about this.
 
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Big Horn said:
I appreciate the OP's honesty in her attack on Whites in her last post. I have no competing selection of half literate nonsense to offer in return, but I can offer a glimpse into our history. And yeah, these books use big words.

https://www.amazon.com/March-Titans...974230332/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

Of course, we must never forget Gibbon. I prefer the Modern Library edition, but I'm listing another because it has more reviews.

https://www.amazon.com/Decline-Empi...keywords=decline+and+fall+of+the+roman+empire

This is an interesting item. A scholarly work used in many university courses, it has been nonetheless subjected to intense attacks.

https://www.amazon.com/Search-Indo-...1508541062&sr=1-1&keywords=the+indo-europeans
Click to expand...
I would be interested to learn on what criteria you base your comments regarding "half literate nonsense." One of the things I was taught in university was that true erudition involved the capacity to communicate clearly and simply. Big words have their place, but they are hardly mandatory. Scholars are not always known for their people skills, and psychologists tend to believe that an overly analytical/pristine approach to social ills tends to be full of pitfalls. Personally, I applaud the posters for their honesty in discussing a highly charged subject.
 
Big Horn said:
I appreciate the OP's honesty in her attack on Whites in her last post. I have no competing selection of half literate nonsense to offer in return, but I can offer a glimpse into our history. And yeah, these books use big words.

https://www.amazon.com/March-Titans...974230332/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

Of course, we must never forget Gibbon. I prefer the Modern Library edition, but I'm listing another because it has more reviews.

https://www.amazon.com/Decline-Empi...keywords=decline+and+fall+of+the+roman+empire

This is an interesting item. A scholarly work used in many university courses, it has been nonetheless subjected to intense attacks.

https://www.amazon.com/Search-Indo-...1508541062&sr=1-1&keywords=the+indo-europeans
Click to expand...

I made no such attack on whites. Post #188 lists 5 things from an ARTICLE - I said that in my post AND quoted the source. You obviously have chosen to interpret and misread what was posted. Perhaps some others agree with you, and if so then that's just the way it will have to be.

I also have no idea what you mean by "half-literate nonsense". That's not a question; I'm not asking because it doesn't matter that much to me, and I'm not interested in your "literacy" or your links. :rolleyes:
 

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