applecruncher
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Race/Racism discussion
- Thread starter applecruncher
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hearlady
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Haha! I remember that!
Cap'nSacto
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@Cap'nSacto
All blacks don't do that, and to take it a step further I don't know of any who do. While there may be some who do what you're complaining about it's certainly nowhere near to the extent that you're alleging.
I'm not seeing what indentured servants have to do with racism. White people being indebted to other white people. :shrug:
I would like all blacks to know, not because all blacks do it but because it was mentioned on the video you shared titled "10 excuses for prejudice.." (or something like that) and there are myths about the issue.
Irish people were initially placed in indentured servitude by the British because they were considered an inferior people.
Shrugs here, too.
applecruncher
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Cap'nSacto, white people treating other white people in an inferior manner isn't racism.
I can't help you with your effort to let all blacks know (whatever). I looked at the video again and I agree with it 100%.
I can't help you with your effort to let all blacks know (whatever). I looked at the video again and I agree with it 100%.
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I did not read all of the posts, so maybe I am repeating something that has already been printed. I was a pilot for 34 years. This is a business where we serve all colors and ethnics. At first, when I was young and somewhat dumb, I had certain ideas, or biases about certain races and ethnics. However, as I grew and matured, I learned that it's only reasonable to treat people as you want to be treated and unless you are disrespected, everyone should be shown respect and tolerance.
When I was in the Marines and in Vietnam, I trusted everyone in my platoon to cover my back and I did the same for them. We didn't have time or the energy to fight among ourselves. We were to busy worrying about staying alive and fighting the enemy. We only had three Blacks, two Mexicans and one American Indian in our platoon, which was mostly white. A very low number in comparison to some other platoons. It didn't matter. We shared canteens with one another or slept against one another while holding our rifles for safety.
When I was in the Marines and in Vietnam, I trusted everyone in my platoon to cover my back and I did the same for them. We didn't have time or the energy to fight among ourselves. We were to busy worrying about staying alive and fighting the enemy. We only had three Blacks, two Mexicans and one American Indian in our platoon, which was mostly white. A very low number in comparison to some other platoons. It didn't matter. We shared canteens with one another or slept against one another while holding our rifles for safety.
Cap'nSacto
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- Sacramento, Calif
Except, for centuries before around 1944-45 or even later, “white” was not a race. Example: there were at least 5 different European races (ask any Jew). That’s why the original law read; (paraphrased) …shall not discriminate against people on the basis of race, creed, or color..
Anyway, pretty good discussion. A discussion, at least.
Trade
Well-known Member
Jews could get by in Nazi Germany if they had a good set of forged documents.
Black people in the Jim Crowe south, not so much
applecruncher
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And blacks in apartheid South Africa........not at all.
applecruncher
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APARTHEID IN SOUTH AFRICA
After the National Party gained power in South Africa in 1948, its all-white government immediately began enforcing existing policies of racial segregation under a system of legislation that it called apartheid. Under apartheid, nonwhite South Africans (a majority of the population) would be forced to live in separate areas from whites and use separate public facilities, and contact between the two groups would be limited. Despite strong and consistent opposition to apartheid within and outside of South Africa, its laws remained in effect for the better part of 50 years. In 1991, the government of President F.W. de Klerk began to repeal most of the legislation that provided the basis for apartheid.
[h=2]Birth of Apartheid[/h]Racial segregation and white supremacy had become central aspects of South African policy long before apartheid began. The controversial 1913 Land Act, passed three years after South Africa gained its independence, marked the beginning of territorial segregation by forcing black Africans to live in reserves and making it illegal for them to work as sharecroppers. Opponents of the Land Act formed the South African National Native Congress, which would become the African National Congress (ANC).
The Great Depression and World War II brought increasing economic woes to South Africa, and convinced the government to strengthen its policies of racial segregation. In 1948, the Afrikaner National Party won the general election under the slogan “apartheid” (literally “separateness”). Their goal was not only to separate South Africa’s white minority from its non-white majority, but also to separate non-whites from each other, and to divide black South Africans along tribal lines in order to decrease their political power.
[h=2]Apartheid Becomes Law[/h]By 1950, the government had banned marriages between whites and people of other races, and prohibited sexual relations between black and white South Africans. The Population Registration Act of 1950 provided the basic framework for apartheid by classifying all South Africans by race, including Bantu (black Africans), Coloured (mixed race) and white. A fourth category, Asian (meaning Indian and Pakistani) was later added. In some cases, the legislation split families; parents could be classified as white, while their children were classified as colored.
A series of Land Acts set aside more than 80 percent of the country’s land for the white minority, and “pass laws” required non-whites to carry documents authorizing their presence in restricted areas. In order to limit contact between the races, the government established separate public facilities for whites and non-whites, limited the activity of nonwhite labor unions and denied non-white participation in national government.
Apartheid and Separate Development.
Dr. Hendrik Verwoerd, who became prime minister in 1958, would refine apartheid policy further into a system he referred to as “separate development.” The Promotion of Bantu Self-Government Act of 1959 created 10 Bantu homelands known as Bantustans. Separating black South Africans from each other enabled the government to claim there was no black majority, and reduced the possibility that blacks would unify into one nationalist organization. Every black South African was designated as a citizen as one of the Bantustans, a system that supposedly gave them full political rights, but effectively removed them from the nation’s political body.
In one of the most devastating aspects of apartheid, the government forcibly removed black South Africans from rural areas designated as “white” to the homelands, and sold their land at low prices to white farmers. From 1961 to 1994, more than 3.5 million people were forcibly removed from their homes and deposited in the Bantustans, where they were plunged into poverty and hopelessness.
[h=2][/h][h=2]Opposition to Apartheid[/h]Resistance to apartheid within South Africa took many forms over the years, from non-violent demonstrations, protests and strikes to political action and eventually to armed resistance. Together with the South Indian National Congress, the ANC organized a mass meeting in 1952, during which attendees burned their pass books. A group calling itself the Congress of the People adopted a Freedom Charter in 1955 asserting that “South Africa belongs to all who live in it, black or white.” The government broke up the meeting and arrested 150 people, charging them with high treason.
In 1960, at the black township of Sharpesville, the police opened fire on a group of unarmed blacks associated with the Pan-African Congress (PAC), an offshoot of the ANC. The group had arrived at the police station without passes, inviting arrest as an act of resistance. At least 67 blacks were killed and more than 180 wounded. Sharpesville convinced many anti-apartheid leaders that they could not achieve their objectives by peaceful means, and both the PAC and ANC established military wings, neither of which ever posed a serious military threat to the state. By 1961, most resistance leaders had been captured and sentenced to long prison terms or executed. Nelson Mandela, a founder of Umkhonto we Sizwe (“Spear of the Nation”), the military wing of the ANC, was incarcerated from 1963 to 1990; his imprisonment would draw international attention and help garner support for the anti-apartheid cause.
[h=2]Apartheid Comes to an End[/h]
In 1976, when thousands of black children in Soweto, a black township outside Johannesburg, demonstrated against the Afrikaans language requirement for black African students, the police opened fire with tear gas and bullets. The protests and government crackdowns that followed, combined with a national economic recession, drew more international attention to South Africa and shattered all illusions that apartheid had brought peace or prosperity to the nation. The United Nations General Assembly had denounced apartheid in 1973, and in 1976 the UN Security Council voted to impose a mandatory embargo on the sale of arms to South Africa. In 1985, the United Kingdom and United States imposed economic sanctions on the country.
Under pressure from the international community, the National Party government of Pieter Botha sought to institute some reforms, including abolition of the pass laws and the ban on interracial sex and marriage. The reforms fell short of any substantive change, however, and by 1989 Botha was pressured to step aside in favor of F.W. de Klerk. De Klerk’s government subsequently repealed the Population Registration Act, as well as most of the other legislation that formed the legal basis for apartheid. A new constitution, which enfranchised blacks and other racial groups, took effect in 1994, and elections that year led to a coalition government with a nonwhite majority, marking the official end of the apartheid system.
http://www.history.com/topics/apartheid
After the National Party gained power in South Africa in 1948, its all-white government immediately began enforcing existing policies of racial segregation under a system of legislation that it called apartheid. Under apartheid, nonwhite South Africans (a majority of the population) would be forced to live in separate areas from whites and use separate public facilities, and contact between the two groups would be limited. Despite strong and consistent opposition to apartheid within and outside of South Africa, its laws remained in effect for the better part of 50 years. In 1991, the government of President F.W. de Klerk began to repeal most of the legislation that provided the basis for apartheid.
[h=2]Birth of Apartheid[/h]Racial segregation and white supremacy had become central aspects of South African policy long before apartheid began. The controversial 1913 Land Act, passed three years after South Africa gained its independence, marked the beginning of territorial segregation by forcing black Africans to live in reserves and making it illegal for them to work as sharecroppers. Opponents of the Land Act formed the South African National Native Congress, which would become the African National Congress (ANC).
The Great Depression and World War II brought increasing economic woes to South Africa, and convinced the government to strengthen its policies of racial segregation. In 1948, the Afrikaner National Party won the general election under the slogan “apartheid” (literally “separateness”). Their goal was not only to separate South Africa’s white minority from its non-white majority, but also to separate non-whites from each other, and to divide black South Africans along tribal lines in order to decrease their political power.
[h=2]Apartheid Becomes Law[/h]By 1950, the government had banned marriages between whites and people of other races, and prohibited sexual relations between black and white South Africans. The Population Registration Act of 1950 provided the basic framework for apartheid by classifying all South Africans by race, including Bantu (black Africans), Coloured (mixed race) and white. A fourth category, Asian (meaning Indian and Pakistani) was later added. In some cases, the legislation split families; parents could be classified as white, while their children were classified as colored.
A series of Land Acts set aside more than 80 percent of the country’s land for the white minority, and “pass laws” required non-whites to carry documents authorizing their presence in restricted areas. In order to limit contact between the races, the government established separate public facilities for whites and non-whites, limited the activity of nonwhite labor unions and denied non-white participation in national government.
Apartheid and Separate Development.
Dr. Hendrik Verwoerd, who became prime minister in 1958, would refine apartheid policy further into a system he referred to as “separate development.” The Promotion of Bantu Self-Government Act of 1959 created 10 Bantu homelands known as Bantustans. Separating black South Africans from each other enabled the government to claim there was no black majority, and reduced the possibility that blacks would unify into one nationalist organization. Every black South African was designated as a citizen as one of the Bantustans, a system that supposedly gave them full political rights, but effectively removed them from the nation’s political body.
In one of the most devastating aspects of apartheid, the government forcibly removed black South Africans from rural areas designated as “white” to the homelands, and sold their land at low prices to white farmers. From 1961 to 1994, more than 3.5 million people were forcibly removed from their homes and deposited in the Bantustans, where they were plunged into poverty and hopelessness.
[h=2][/h][h=2]Opposition to Apartheid[/h]Resistance to apartheid within South Africa took many forms over the years, from non-violent demonstrations, protests and strikes to political action and eventually to armed resistance. Together with the South Indian National Congress, the ANC organized a mass meeting in 1952, during which attendees burned their pass books. A group calling itself the Congress of the People adopted a Freedom Charter in 1955 asserting that “South Africa belongs to all who live in it, black or white.” The government broke up the meeting and arrested 150 people, charging them with high treason.
In 1960, at the black township of Sharpesville, the police opened fire on a group of unarmed blacks associated with the Pan-African Congress (PAC), an offshoot of the ANC. The group had arrived at the police station without passes, inviting arrest as an act of resistance. At least 67 blacks were killed and more than 180 wounded. Sharpesville convinced many anti-apartheid leaders that they could not achieve their objectives by peaceful means, and both the PAC and ANC established military wings, neither of which ever posed a serious military threat to the state. By 1961, most resistance leaders had been captured and sentenced to long prison terms or executed. Nelson Mandela, a founder of Umkhonto we Sizwe (“Spear of the Nation”), the military wing of the ANC, was incarcerated from 1963 to 1990; his imprisonment would draw international attention and help garner support for the anti-apartheid cause.
[h=2]Apartheid Comes to an End[/h]
In 1976, when thousands of black children in Soweto, a black township outside Johannesburg, demonstrated against the Afrikaans language requirement for black African students, the police opened fire with tear gas and bullets. The protests and government crackdowns that followed, combined with a national economic recession, drew more international attention to South Africa and shattered all illusions that apartheid had brought peace or prosperity to the nation. The United Nations General Assembly had denounced apartheid in 1973, and in 1976 the UN Security Council voted to impose a mandatory embargo on the sale of arms to South Africa. In 1985, the United Kingdom and United States imposed economic sanctions on the country.
Under pressure from the international community, the National Party government of Pieter Botha sought to institute some reforms, including abolition of the pass laws and the ban on interracial sex and marriage. The reforms fell short of any substantive change, however, and by 1989 Botha was pressured to step aside in favor of F.W. de Klerk. De Klerk’s government subsequently repealed the Population Registration Act, as well as most of the other legislation that formed the legal basis for apartheid. A new constitution, which enfranchised blacks and other racial groups, took effect in 1994, and elections that year led to a coalition government with a nonwhite majority, marking the official end of the apartheid system.
http://www.history.com/topics/apartheid
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Wayne
Senior Member
So very true there I have seen it all my life.For some of the other comments good job on turning to a negative, yes ar birth all same from then on changes happen.
applecruncher
SF VIP
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- Ohio USA
Remember the TV sitcom "Soap"?
One storyline was when Danny dated a black woman. But he had a chip on his shoulder; i.e., when they went out he would get aggressive and start fights with people accusing them of being racist. ("What are you people looking at??") I have tried, but I can't find a video where he grabs some guy in a restaurant.
But I did find another funny scene - The Step Brothers:
(RIP Robert Guillaume/Benson, who died today)
One storyline was when Danny dated a black woman. But he had a chip on his shoulder; i.e., when they went out he would get aggressive and start fights with people accusing them of being racist. ("What are you people looking at??") I have tried, but I can't find a video where he grabs some guy in a restaurant.
But I did find another funny scene - The Step Brothers:
(RIP Robert Guillaume/Benson, who died today)
treeguy64
Hari Om, y'all!
- Location
- Austin, TX.
We can keep beating it. (Sounds bad.) All behavior has underlying genetic influences. That's simply the way it is. If you haven't taken Genetics, I can't convince you, and you won't understand what I'm driving at, here. There might be genes involved in visual perception, olfactory discrimination, more subtle ways one perceives differences, etc., etc. My point, and if you keep coming back, rest assured I will, is that those organisms that failed to note differences, BECAUSE OF THEIR GENETIC MAKEUP, were less apt to procreate because they did not survive long enough to, because they were dispatched by the very different species/tribe/group they failed to recognize as being different from themselves. I will patiently keep explaining, to you, the rudimentary science I'm drawing on, but if you refuse to see what's what, then you will keep yourself in the dark, no matter what I post. Oh well.
Sassycakes
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- Location
- Pennsylvania
I was very lucky that neither my Mother or Father were racists. I was taught to treat everyone with respect ,no matter what race or Nationality. Of course I saw racism all around me ,my neighborhood ,school etc. Even when I started dating my husband who was Irish I saw it. My Father's Mother would introduce us saying "Barbara is my Granddaughter and John is her boyfriend, he's Irish but he is nice." My Husband's Mother would always say "Dear God ,save me from the Diago's(sp),but not you Barbara because you are nice." Every nationality had their prejudice's but even at that I don't think any white person went through the terrible abuse that the Black people have been going through their entire lives around many people.
Warrigal
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- Sydney, Australia
QFT Certainly applies in Australia.
applecruncher
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- Ohio USA
In the 1990s -- not all that long ago - a white co-worker was telling me about someone who was recently hired in another dept. "She's black, but she's nice." Such statements are common, and the people saying such things see nothing wrong with it. 
mg1: The ignorance boggles the mind.
I guess she meant the other woman had a pretty smile and wasn't an axe-murderess.
mg1: The ignorance boggles the mind.I guess she meant the other woman had a pretty smile and wasn't an axe-murderess.
hearlady
Basic Member
- Location
- N Carolina
I still hear that but maybe it's more in the south and more from elderly people in the south.
That's more weird that your co-worker would say that to you. It would actually be less weird if she said the new person was black "so you two should get along well." I said less weird.
That's more weird that your co-worker would say that to you. It would actually be less weird if she said the new person was black "so you two should get along well." I said less weird.
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
I think I turned a corner during the famine in Ethiopia last century.
On the TV I saw footage of a little boy in a hospital who was clearly starving to death. He did die later. By his side was his father. He never said a word, just sat at his son's bedside with tears silently streaming down his cheeks.
I think this was probably the first time that I wasn't focussed on his race. He certainly looked a lot different to me and mine, but what I saw was a parent, a parent like me, who was in awful pain and I cried with him. I'm crying now as I remember.
The famine was caused by drought but exacerbated by the war between the Ethiopians and the Eritreans. If race means anything, they were of the same race and should have been brothers and sisters but war has no empathy, for the most part. I have hated war mongers ever since. I even wrote to our PM before he committed our troops to Gulf War 2.0, arguing the horrors that would be inflicted on Iraqi women and children.
He wrote back, talking about weapons of mass destruction. As if disease and famine don't kill people.
Sorry about the detour but racism dies when you are able to see someone else as family.
On the TV I saw footage of a little boy in a hospital who was clearly starving to death. He did die later. By his side was his father. He never said a word, just sat at his son's bedside with tears silently streaming down his cheeks.
I think this was probably the first time that I wasn't focussed on his race. He certainly looked a lot different to me and mine, but what I saw was a parent, a parent like me, who was in awful pain and I cried with him. I'm crying now as I remember.
The famine was caused by drought but exacerbated by the war between the Ethiopians and the Eritreans. If race means anything, they were of the same race and should have been brothers and sisters but war has no empathy, for the most part. I have hated war mongers ever since. I even wrote to our PM before he committed our troops to Gulf War 2.0, arguing the horrors that would be inflicted on Iraqi women and children.
He wrote back, talking about weapons of mass destruction. As if disease and famine don't kill people.
Sorry about the detour but racism dies when you are able to see someone else as family.
Shalimar
SF VIP
- Location
- Vancouver Island Canada
Beautifully put, in the end, the truth is, we are all "us." Anything else lacks humanity.
In the 1990s -- not all that long ago - a white co-worker was telling me about someone who was recently hired in another dept. "She's black, but she's nice." Such statements are common, and the people saying such things see nothing wrong with it.
I guess she meant the other woman had a pretty smile and wasn't an axe-murderess.
I've heard similar comments like, "He's good looking for a black man." Or, "She's a doll for a black lady." I once dated a really light skinned black girl just after high school that I had met at a dance. My parents were far from being racists being that my dad had a career in the military and we had black guys in and out of our home constantly. We only dated two or three times and we were never considered boyfriend-girlfriend, just friends. I didn't see it any different than if I was with a white girl. Of course, we heard a few rude comments, but back in the 60's that was commonplace. I never got to the point where she took me home to meet her parents, but I did meet her brother out at a restaurant one night and he never made an issue out of us being together or did he make any comments of any sort. (At least not when I was around.) Heck, he was a professor at Penn State teaching chemistry.
So very true
Conversing one on one sometimes helps to dissolve pre judgments
Basically, just getting to know one another
When spiritually touching mutual souls/hearts, genuine conversation, not what thought to be acceptable...friendships occur..differences become few...sometimes
Big Horn
Member
- Location
- Cody, Wyoming
Yes
I'm sure you have a point....?
Thru the years I've had many a time with folks of a different culture or upbringing
I'd like to share a most recent one (forgive me, applecruncher, for straying a bit off topic);
I have come to know many an individual
Some so remarkable I just look
In awe
Quite a few have had many tough struggles in life
And have come thru
Shinning
Countless stories have been written about folks like these
Reader’s Digest used to be full of ‘em
There is one I’m focused on right now
Nuthin’ glorious, to speak of
Heh, on the surface, her life has been pretty much unspeakable from my perspective
See, her ‘sexual orientation’, as is the PC phrase of today, is with the same
I’m so biased I can’t even put it in proper English
Anyway
She’s not a lesbian
I think the street term is ‘Bull Dyke’
Born with physical defects
Hands, one arm, sorta screwed up
If that wasn’t enough, not long ago she was in a horrific auto accident
People died
She didn’t
Just got more physically screwed up
Large gal
Man features
But a female
First look
Somebody totally unlovable
By
Anyone
Yet
She has this, this attitude
That I so admire
Sardonic
Matter of fact
A fixed grimace that, if closely examined, is a reluctant smile
Brutal truths told with a shrug
An outlook on life that speaks nothing but courage
At one time I would have disgustedly prejudged
Not would’ve considered my thinking wrong
Now?
I would be proud to introduce my friend to anyone
Except
I’m a bit over protective of her
Don’t want to see her hurt more
If we were in a bar together
Well, there’d be many a fight
Other’n that, I have no reservation about my friend
She has given me a new perspective on folks
Her story would never have made Reader’s Digest
Or prolly most Christian periodicals
But
She’s my hero
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