School shooting in Madison, WI

CooCooforCoCoPuffs said:
Simplistic is to believe yet more gun regulations will make society safer.
Obviously we should ban trucks.
And Boeing 767s.

Solve America's problem which is OBVIOUSLY declining mental health and national security.
But wait: That takes "thinking complexly".
A bandaid fix such as more gun restrictions won't fix America's mental health and national security issue.
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Not simplistic at all. Given the state of America's gun legislation it won't be easy to improve matters but it can be done. Where there is a will, there is also a way.

Just look across the Pacific to Australia and new Zealand and you will see the happy consequence of taking action against the most dangerous firearms and of legislation regulating the purchase and registration of firearms in civilian hands.

That USA refuses to contemplate such measures is the reason for the regular slaughter of innocents. There is a lack of common will to deal with the issue. Declining mental health is a separate issue entirely. It represents a lack of will to tackle universal health care. Capitalism is king in US and is what blocks reforms that are possible in more mixed economies.
 
Divorce, mental illness and other things mentioned are just as common in other countries - yet we dont see the huge number of gun deaths as in US (proportionate number before anyone says 'but the population is bigger')

the difference is easy access t o guns and gun culture
 

CooCooforCoCoPuffs said:
Me either. Am sorry you too were brainwashed to just "throw away the marriage" instead of keeping it long enough and grow within it to realize you can't swap one problem for another.

Half the time the problem in a marriage is yourself; two people working both on their marriage as well as their OWN self development is the key.
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Sometimes I just talk too much.
 
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Della said:
The problem in my marriage was not me. I gave my marriage ten years before I gave up on it. It's impossible to grow within a marriage where one person has no interest at all in making it better.

My husband quit talking to me or showing any interest in me at all a few months after we got married, by then I was pregnant and that seems to have been all he wanted me for. He managed to go without speaking to me for years at a time.

For ten years my job was to keep the house spotless, have dinner on the table at 4:30 on the dot and earn money that he would take out of my hand at my job on pay day. I went all those years with exactly one penny in my purse.

He resented me just for existing and there was nothing I could do to change that. I still wish I had stayed with him for my son's sake, but I'm not going to accept the idea that it was my fault and I should have worked on my marriage more.
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Didn't mean to imply it was your fault. You were being abused.
 
January said:
Divorce, mental illness and other things mentioned are just as common in other countries - yet we dont see the huge number of gun deaths as in US (proportionate number before anyone says 'but the population is bigger')

the difference is easy access t o guns and gun culture
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We do not have a "gun" culture. We have a "freedoms" culture.
 
Warrigal said:
Not simplistic at all. Given the state of America's gun legislation it won't be easy to improve matters but it can be done. Where there is a will, there is also a way.

Just look across the Pacific to Australia and new Zealand and you will see the happy consequence of taking action against the most dangerous firearms and of legislation regulating the purchase and registration of firearms in civilian hands.

That USA refuses to contemplate such measures is the reason for the regular slaughter of innocents. There is a lack of common will to deal with the issue. Declining mental health is a separate issue entirely. It represents a lack of will to tackle universal health care. Capitalism is king in US and is what blocks reforms that are possible in more mixed economies.
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The "lack of common will" is that there is no agreement as to what problem is. The shootings are ONLY a symptom

The problem is an American society that has no common identity as we used to have.

"More mixed economies" that IS a new one. So now blame it on Capitalism. What a joke.
 
CooCooforCoCoPuffs said:
Intelligent gun carrying people rarely open carry EVEN with a permit to do so. Guns make non-gun friendly folks panic, so we just don't open carry.

We get the open carry permit SO we can intervene in a situation quickly defusing something dangerous to others, and not get fined for having an open and obvious weapon in public or for "brandishing" a weapon in public.
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I'm going to stop here. It's clear that we have sufficiently opposing views that prevent any useful dialog. Stay safe.
 
hollydolly said:
I'm sure we have someone here on the forum who lives in Madison WI...don't we ? :unsure:
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Me. I learned more about this atrocity here then from the news reports of which I've paid little attention. She committed MURDER. Oh but let us seek what caused her to be driven to do so. Some miserable trials in her life drove her to do it? And so take her off the "murder" hook. I believe it is necessary to study her state of mind--mentally twisted, or she committed murder just out of viciousness, want, or hatred. And the findings be publicized, but NOT used as an "understandable" reason to let her off whatever the legal punishment consequence.
 
Elsie said:
Me. I learned more about this atrocity here then from the news reports of which I've paid little attention. She committed MURDER. Oh but let us seek what caused her to be driven to do so. Some miserable trials in her life drove her to do it? And so take her off the "murder" hook. I believe it is necessary to study her state of mind--mentally twisted, or she committed murder just out of viciousness, want, or hatred. And the findings be publicized, but NOT used as an "understandable" reason to let her off whatever the legal punishment consequence.
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wow...I only surmised there was a member of this forum who lives in WI 😕
 
CooCooforCoCoPuffs said:
We do not have a "gun" culture. We have a "freedoms" culture.
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I'm sure there've been societies in which the majority of adults (or adult men) walked around with clubs, or spears, or knives. In casual conversation, we might call those "spear cultures" etc. The western U.S., maybe especially in the days of early, large cattle ranches and gold prospecting, seemed to set a historical pattern with the guns.

It's not hard to understand you've got a situation that most citizens of other "developed nations" can't quite comprehend, or view as being reasonable & necessary. (I guess it does engender popular dark, gritty, and suspenseful “ticking clock” movies.)
 
CooCooforCoCoPuffs said:
The "lack of common will" is that there is no agreement as to what problem is. The shootings are ONLY a symptom

The problem is an American society that has no common identity as we used to have.

"More mixed economies" that IS a new one. So now blame it on Capitalism. What a joke.
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There is nothing funny about the annual death toll from firearms in civilian hands. Even one massacre of children in their classrooms should have been a wakeup call but no, not even Sandy Hook, has made any difference.
 
Would there be a U S society that survived and flourished if not for the past use of defenders using guns for fighting off those who would take over their lives? How many of them who frown on such a weapon realize that? Do they realize that guns are an anathema to many of U S societies citizens? Do they realize that the success of those past 'gun toters' had a lot to do with their own societies progress?
 
CooCooforCoCoPuffs said:
We do not have a "gun" culture. We have a "freedoms" culture.
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Interesting take on it.

All freedoms anywhere are balanced against the rights and freedoms of others.

I'd rather the freedom stay alive and not get killed or my child get killed in a mass shooting than the freedom of gun carrying.

You can keep your gun culture - I don't think any other country wants to emulate that version of "freedom"
 
Elsie said:
Would there be a U S society that survived and flourished if not for the past use of defenders using guns for fighting off those who would take over their lives? How many of them who frown on such a weapon realize that? Do they realize that guns are an anathema to many of U S societies citizens? Do they realize that the success of those past 'gun toters' had a lot to do with their own societies progress?
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Gun toters from a past era did not have access to semiautomatic weapons and bump stocks.
 
Most likely this all goes back to the human primitive ambition to" kill."
Hunting, kill. Fishing, Kill. Snakes, Kill, Frogs, kill, kill, kill.

Take into the count of the 100,000's of animals the human race has killed every day for 1000's of years.
We are a predatory race, & many have other driving primordial instincts that most may not have.

The Military doesn't want a bunch of "pacifists." The training is Kill, Kill, Kill, (follow orders and Kill)
Special Forces, you got a "license to kill," kill, kill following those same Kill, kill, kill, kill "orders."

So, it's not some weapons fault. Its in the Human races "extreme blood," Kill, Kill, Kill. Survival be dammed.
Raising Children to respect life, teaching them the meaning of hunting for food, not to kill but for hunger.
"Respecting all life." But even a farmer surely thinks Kill, Kill, Kill. Sure, its bugs wanting to live, live, live.
So, what does it all mean. "Good luck to the survivors."

Many 1000's are quietly harmed / killed and no word out there of their plight mostly. Auto's most dangerous?
So many are thoughtless mistakes in "judgement." Good judgements, most likely the "action words."
Just maybe there are a lot out there that are really bad drivers, making terrible judgement often ?

The human race has evolved to a system of constant bullying. Why do 100,000's fly every day to meetings.
A simple yes over the phone could suffice. Show up or the deal is off? Jet planes most likely use a great
portion of the fuel and emit a great portion of the pollution. 150,000 Take offs or landing a day.

Look at all the flying the few makes. It isn't that some get private jets. Most all of it Total B.S. Why do disturbed people go over the edge. They aren't able to do it too. Those Privileged spend a great amount of their lives traveling to get to a Jet.

So, it's easy to get the meaning of life isn't it! Why should not all have to dig into their hole under the
desk just like the rest of us. Is it just constant lies. Today the truth doesn't necessarily mean much.

Mostly the evil in the hearts of men and women aren't afraid of the whimsical justice of today. Back then
they were tried, convicted and hung the same day, or drug out of the cell, hung or Cremated /burned.
Today the Liberal 1000's of chances for reprieve has a deep belief.
 
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hollydolly said:
wow...I only surmised there was a member of this forum who lives in WI 😕
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A professional LEO once told me that he only follows and responds to what they do, not why the human mind made them do it.

Maybe if you have a world view, many millions have been coursed by Swords, Spears, firearms, rockets, etc. There is no end to the endless evil man does to man. The world may be equivalent to riding a Jackass across a desert.
 
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papa tiger said:
A professional LEO once told me that he only follows and responds to what they do, not why the human mind made them do it.

Maybe if you have a world view, many millions have been coursed by Swords, Spears, firearms, rockets, etc. There is no end to the endless evil man does to man. The world may be equivalent to riding a Jackass across a desert.
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what ?..why are you quoting me ?
 
Elsie said:
Would there be a U S society that survived and flourished if not for the past use of defenders using guns for fighting off those who would take over their lives? How many of them who frown on such a weapon realize that? Do they realize that guns are an anathema to many of U S societies citizens? Do they realize that the success of those past 'gun toters' had a lot to do with their own societies progress?
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How many of us anti-gun people realize the army needs weapons? All of us I imagine. When we talk in favor of greater gun control we always add exceptions for the military, police, ranchers, etc. You're arguing against a group that doesn't exist here.

papa tiger said:
Most likely this all goes back to the human primitive ambition to" kill."
Hunting, kill. Fishing, Kill. Snakes, Kill, Frogs, kill, kill, kill.
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Did they love to kill or were they just trying to keep from starving?

Surely, we've evolved from our cave men days and the old west is settled. Can't we ordinary, non-military Americans be civilized enough to get though our days without lethal weapons?
 

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