Shooter killed after driving car into Detroit synagogue with preschool

[Warrigal]

The 911 attacks were an example of asymmetric warfare.

The plan was pure genius and designed to send a message to America by taking out buildings that represented commerce, the military and government. Two of the three were successful, the Twin Towers and the Pentagon but due to the bravery of passengers on the hijacked plane, the Capitol, thought to be the third target, was spared.

Osama bin Laden was born in Saudi Arabia but Iraq was attacked in retaliation.

This conversation seems to be wandering all over the place. The OP introduced the subject of a would-be murderer deliberately driving a van loaded with explosives into a Jewish preschool. Amazingly, no children were killed.

That is what the subject is supposed to be. Yet, we have somehow segued into the current war with Iran, the war against Iraq, the IRA and England, and whether we should be talking about this subject in the first place. Can we return for a moment to the original subject, which is violent antisemitism? This poisonous mindset has been part of the world seemingly forever, at least since Biblical times.

Look up the story of Purim, a holiday being celebrated by the Jewish religion around this time of year. About 4 centuries before Christ, a bad guy named Haman managed to convince the king of Persia that the Jews were evil and should be exterminated. (Sound familiar?) But what the king didn't know was that his favorite wife, Queen Esther, was one of those Jews. She had the courage to tell the king that she was grieving because she was about to be killed. Instead, Haman ended up being hanged, and the Jews were saved.

What this driver did was in a direct line with Haman, Hitler, and all the other antisemites. It is pure hate, with no logical basis except the need to create a scapegoat. Since he chose a preschool to attack not only shows how evil he was, but probably the level of his insanity.

I think a focused, nonpolitical discussion of antisemitism would be interesting here. Why is this cancer in the human mind always so eager to pop up?

I find the Book of Esther rather horrifying reading, particularly the ending when the King grants Esther and the Jews a number of days during which they can exact revenge by murdering freely. The festival of Purim celebrates that revenge.

 

[Sunny]

WIthout seeing inside the mind of the perpetrator, antiseminitism and revenge against war crimes may be hard to distinguish.

True, but by that logic, any act of violence, terrorism, etc. can be justified, because we can never be sure how pure or impure their motives were. So starving the people of Gaza might be a simple act of revenge. And 9/11 also. And so it goes, on and on.

We will never have peace in the world until the concept of revenge is gone... and who knows if that will ever happen?

 

[WhatInThe]

True, but by that logic, any act of violence, terrorism, etc. can be justified, because we can never be sure how pure or impure their motives were. So starving the people of Gaza might be a simple act of revenge. And 9/11 also. And so it goes, on and on.

We will never have peace in the world until the concept of revenge is gone... and who knows if that will ever happen?

Concepts, ideas, opinions will never cease to be. How they are presented or viewed/-interpreted can be managed a little bit but in the end they will never disappear.

Since the shooter already had family in a terrorist organization there was a pretty good chance he was in or could've very easily been in one especially if he didn't immigrate to the US. His idea of revenge or retaliation was set. He executed a revenge plan with in days of family members being killed in an airstrike. It's almost like he was waiting for an excuse.

 

[Pepper]

He executed a revenge plan with in days of family members being killed in an airstrike. It's almost like he was waiting for an excuse.

Well then he waited many years. He arrived in 2011 and has been a citizen for ten years

There’s no indication he ever planned an attack on American Jewry before he lost close family to Israel. We continually demonize one side.

Israel came into existence one year before I was born. I’m a Jew. I have loved Israel. That doesn’t mean Netanyahu has any defense for his murderous actions. IMO he is an enemy. A thug. A man going to war to save his own ass.

Arabs and Muslims grieve over their families too. They seek revenge as does Netanyahu

 

[Irishdude]

Why we can't just acknowledge that this is a result of the US opening the Pandora's Box that is Iran? We can expect to see more domestic terrorism. These guys have just been waiting for the other shoe to drop.

BTW just watching the cat fight in this tread is entertaining.

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We've been seeing domestic terrorism for a very long time. These idiots don't really need an excuse to kill people.

 

[Irishdude]

The 911 attacks were an example of asymmetric warfare.

The plan was pure genius and designed to send a message to America by taking out buildings that represented commerce, the military and government. Two of the three were successful, the Twin Towers and the Pentagon but due to the bravery of passengers on the hijacked plane, the Capitol, thought to be the third target, was spared.

Osama bin Laden was born in Saudi Arabia but Iraq was attacked in retaliation.

Only problem with that is that we weren't at war with anybody at the time. Not sure what the "message" was supposed to be.

Wondering if you thought the murder of Jews in Bondi Beach was another example of "pure genius?"

 

[Warrigal]

Only problem with that is that we weren't at war with anybody at the time. Not sure what the "message" was supposed to be.

Wondering if you thought the murder of Jews in Bondi Beach was another example of "pure genius?"

I would have thought that the message was "America is not safe from attacks on her own soil". The reaction was to declare war on Iraq for the second time. Meanwhile Bin Laden and his associates were hiding out in Afghanistan, not Iraq. Think how much money, how many US lives were sacrificed. The men who carried out the 911 attacks were all dead. They died willingly, knowing that they were dealing a blow to the much hated enemy.

The murder of Jews on Bondi beach had no coherent message. It was a reaction against the Israeli government's genocide in Gaza. The victims were random, not carefully chosen. One of the shooters died. The other is in gaol. Pure genius, it was not.

 

[WhatInThe]

I would have thought that the message was "America is not safe from attacks on her own soil". The reaction was to declare war on Iraq for the second time. Meanwhile Bin Laden and his associates were hiding out in Afghanistan, not Iraq. Think how much money, how many US lives were sacrificed. The men who carried out the 911 attacks were all dead. They died willingly, knowing that they were dealing a blow to the much hated enemy.

The murder of Jews on Bondi beach had no coherent message. It was a reaction against the Israeli government's genocide in Gaza. The victims were random, not carefully chosen. One of the shooters died. The other is in gaol. Pure genius, it was not.

Some theorized that Iraq was actually to avenge an attempted assassination/plot on Bush Sr after the first Gulf War. If nothing else Saudi Arabia is now facing a big civil suit pinning much of the blame on 9/11. They weren't pursued post 9/11 probably because of oil and other business dealings. Afghanistan was attacked to find Bin Laden but as many suspected he was already out of country in Pakistan by the time troops arrived*

I think the Bondi and other attacks are as much about bringing attention to their causes as they are personal vengeance. But a terrorist does terrorize.

*Sidenote but a decade ago Pakistan 'let' Bin Laden hang out as probably other yet today they are in a recently declared war/border dispute.

 

[Irishdude]

I would have thought that the message was "America is not safe from attacks on her own soil". The reaction was to declare war on Iraq for the second time. Meanwhile Bin Laden and his associates were hiding out in Afghanistan, not Iraq. Think how much money, how many US lives were sacrificed. The men who carried out the 911 attacks were all dead. They died willingly, knowing that they were dealing a blow to the much hated enemy.

The murder of Jews on Bondi beach had no coherent message. It was a reaction against the Israeli government's genocide in Gaza. The victims were random, not carefully chosen. One of the shooters died. The other is in gaol. Pure genius, it was not.

Actually, the immediate reaction was to topple the Taliban in Afghanistan and go after Bin Laden there. We missed him, too bad. We did get him later, hiding in Pakistan.

We invaded Iraq two years later on bad information with bad strategy.

Your description of terrorists who "died willingly, knowing that they were dealing a blow to the much hated enemy" is pretty nauseating. I lost friends, neighbors and acquaintances on 9/11. I'm not going to praise the human scum who flew planes into buildings full of innocent civilians.

BTW you talk about genocide in Gaza. Saddam Hussein committed real genocide in Iraq, systematically trying to wipe out the Kurds and the Marsh Arabs. Turks committed real genocide against the Armenians. ISIS committed real genocide against the Yazidis and Christians. The list goes on and on. Killing 70,000 people in Gaza, half of them Hamas fighters, out of a population of two million may be a disproportionate response to an act of terror, but maybe you could tell me who committed the original act of terror.

 

[January]

Your description of terrorists who "died willingly, knowing that they were dealing a blow to the much hated enemy" is pretty nauseating. I lost friends, neighbors and acquaintances on 9/11. I'm not going to praise the human scum who flew planes into buildings full of innocent civilians.

Your description of terrorists who "died willingly, knowing that they were dealing a blow to the much hated enemy" is pretty nauseating. I lost friends, neighbors and acquaintances on 9/11. I'm not going to praise the human scum who flew planes into buildings full of innocent civilians.

who was praising them? Fact is they willingly died for their cause. that isnt praising them, it is just a fact.

and one genocide doesn't justify another - whatever ISIS did doesn't justify starving civilians in Gaza, for example

that's what I meant before about people selectively seeing only the wrongs of one side - and it doesnt matter who committed the original act - 2 wrongs dont make a right and like previous poster said there will never be peace if everyone wants revenge on everyone else

an eye for an eye until the whole world is blind