Shooting of Breonna Taylor, and the "no knock" procedure, plus "stand your ground".

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Camper6 said:
911. Why do the police keep making such dumb mistakes? Don't they get any training? Doesn't their supervisors see what is going on?

I mean. Even the dumbest person in the world knows that you can't kneel on a guys neck with your hands in your pockets until he stops breathing.

I'm all in favor of police and they work they do is tough but what I am seeing is just unbelievable.
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Camper 6. I can't agree with you more. I don't think police work is an easy job. They have to deal with highly overwrought people, plain nuts, drunks, stoned, tee'd off. criminals, killers, thieves, drug dealers, etc. etc. And the skills to deal with all of that is "On The Job Training". That might have been enough 100 years ago, not now. One of the known flaws with OJT is that it perpetuates poor work habits. We need highly educated, well paid police professionals.
 

Again, Miss Taylor's death is another instance of cowboy cops screwing up. What, this is Sunday, we should have another one of these by next week, at the least. And to the people sitting in front of your screens, you know with out a doubt, we will have one.
 
Irwin said:
From what I remember, Grand Jury transcripts are not made public unless the person of interest has been found guilty in the court of law. We have a right to privacy, as defined in our Constitution's 4th Amendment, and making public the testimony would violate that right.
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"Citing the secrecy of grand jury proceedings, Attorney General Daniel Cameron refused to tell reporters whether he recommended that grand jurors exonerate three Louisville police officers on homicide charges in the fatal shooting of Breonna Taylor.

But other prosecutors in Kentucky, notably Dave Stengel, the former commonwealth’s attorney in Jefferson County, have disclosed whether they made recommendations to grand juries in police shooting cases — or left decisions solely up to the grand jury.

So have prosecutors in other states."

https://www.courier-journal.com/sto...case-cameron-right-recommendation/3524320001/
 
rgp said:
A strong suggestion, but read it as you will.
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I did and that's exactly why I responded to your rather intrinsic threat. At least even you knew to deescalate your own action because I don't look for trouble with other members here and hopefully you don't want any trouble from me. Still friends?
 
I just now took the time to read the comments on this thread from all the marvelous "experts." Like 911, I too was a member of a police force. Police officers are highly trained and ready for any contingent other than being blindsided. We really do not know all the details of this case and perhaps will not for years. Wild speculation resolves nothing and just to make it clear, few officers ever make stupid mistakes continually as was alleged by one member here. Police officers are peace keeping members of society. Those who choose to disrupt the normal course of events through nefarious means will be dealt with by these sworn officers of the law. Like it or not. Warrants are served by either uniformed or badged officers. In this case, plain clothes, but who made it known that they were the law. Some of you have made very shameful and very erroneous comments and conclusions here and that includes those who do not reside in this country. None of us is perfect, but the castigation of the police by anyone here is not acceptable. If you were there, knew all the intrinsic details of this case and were a part of its issuance and outcome, then you may state emphatically what is fact and what is not. As one member stated, let it rest. There is a reason for this. If you dare to consider why.
 
This is a thread about a case that went so wrong that $12 million was offered as a settlement. If there was no wrong doing then there would be no settlement.

This is a thread discussing what may have possibly gone wrong in the case and of course we aren’t all going to agree. I think that’s completely normal and since this IS about a police raid where people were shot and killed, I don’t think it’s that abnormal to have strong opinions on both sides.

Not all people are from the country this happened in and unless they were actually THERE then they can’t state emphatically what is fact and what is not . SO TRUE but THIS ^^^^would include EVERYONE here. Nobody was there who has commented on this thread.

It was stated that none of us know the details of this case and perhaps won’t for years yet it is then stated that warrants were served by either uniformed officers or badged officers who were in plain clothes who made it known that they were law. If the above is true, how do we know? We don’t. None of us do.

Do you notice the huge contradiction?
Nobody here commenting was there so I don’t think it matters in the least where any member comes from who wants to participate in the thread. It’s the same with any thread. We ALL comment about things going on in ALL parts of the world and none of us know for certain what actually happened ( since we weren’t there ) but it doesn’t stop us from participating in a conversation about it.

All I know is that there have been two highly publicized cases where things went horribly wrong. One case three officers were charged with murder. This case got settled for a large amount of money. Should I assume that the state handed over this money for no reason what-so-ever or that it was compensation for mistakes made by the police? Are we not allowed to wonder in case it offends others who don’t agree with us?

There’s no doubt police have an incredibly difficult job. I’d hate to be in their shoes especially if orders were given putting their lives in more danger than need be. I’ve no doubt that most police officers are honest with moral integrity but I also know that all positions of power have the tendency to be abused. Unfortunately it happens and I’d expect all police officers to support one another. That’s what teams do.

There have been equally intense posts from both sides of this discussion. That’s fairly normal in any type of debate. I see shocking posts from both sides.
 
Lewkat said:
I just now took the time to read the comments on this thread from all the marvelous "experts." Like 911, I too was a member of a police force. Police officers are highly trained and ready for any contingent other than being blindsided. We really do not know all the details of this case and perhaps will not for years. Wild speculation resolves nothing and just to make it clear, few officers ever make stupid mistakes continually as was alleged by one member here. Police officers are peace keeping members of society. Those who choose to disrupt the normal course of events through nefarious means will be dealt with by these sworn officers of the law. Like it or not. Warrants are served by either uniformed or badged officers. In this case, plain clothes, but who made it known that they were the law. Some of you have made very shameful and very erroneous comments and conclusions here and that includes those who do not reside in this country. None of us is perfect, but the castigation of the police by anyone here is not acceptable. If you were there, knew all the intrinsic details of this case and were a part of its issuance and outcome, then you may state emphatically what is fact and what is not. As one member stated, let it rest. There is a reason for this. If you dare to consider why.
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Keeripes man. Why do you think they are rioting in the streets? For the good of their health? Or for the somewhat nebulous hope that changes will be made to stop the stupid mistakes?
If they are so highly trained as you are suggesting, then why in the world are these incidents arising?

O.K. So the knee on the neck has been washed out on the Minneapolis police force. It would still be in existence if it wasn't for the riots. Now why would the officers be charged if it was a 'simple mistake' as you called it.

Your comment.
"None of us is perfect, but the castigation of the police by anyone here is not acceptable. "

Oh yes it it. That's what forums are for. None of us is seeking perfection. And I didn't like your comment about "some who do not reside in this country". The forum is open to anyone who signs up. It's not restricted. It's an international forum. We are all anonymous here and what we say or comment is not going to change the law or anything else.

I can see as a former police officer you would take to defending the force. I would do the same thing.
 
Keesha said:
Ok! Was my post that offensive?
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Not to me and I say this because unless one or more of the members here can actually state that he or she or they can say they were there in person or knew someone there then everything here posted by everyone here is either personal opinion, repeating information from a source be it credible or fake news, gossip or just forum bluster and fakery to try and convince the membership that they have some type of personal conduit to parties involved with the storyline. Either way I feel this thread has run it's course and anything else said would probably be counterproductive. Hollow tough guy threats included.
 
FastTrax said:
Not to me and I say this because unless one or more of the members here can actually state that he or she or they can say they were there in person or knew someone there then everything here posted by everyone here is either personal opinion, repeating information from a source be it credible or fake news, gossip or just forum bluster and fakery to try and convince the membership that they have some type of personal conduit to parties involved with the storyline. Either way I feel this thread has run it's course and anything else said would probably be counterproductive. Hollow tough guy threats included.
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Thank you. You said that much better than I ever could. 😁🙏
 
Camper6 said:
Keeripes man. Why do you think they are rioting in the streets? For the good of their health? Or for the somewhat nebulous hope that changes will be made to stop the stupid mistakes?
If they are so highly trained as you are suggesting, then why in the world are these incidents arising?

O.K. So the knee on the neck has been washed out on the Minneapolis police force. It would still be in existence if it wasn't for the riots. Now why would the officers be charged if it was a 'simple mistake' as you called it.

Your comment.
"None of us is perfect, but the castigation of the police by anyone here is not acceptable. "

Oh yes it it. That's what forums are for. None of us is seeking perfection. And I didn't like your comment about "some who do not reside in this country". The forum is open to anyone who signs up. It's not restricted. It's an international forum. We are all anonymous here and what we say or comment is not going to change the law or anything else.
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Yep, the police work for us, and we damn sure have the right to criticize them when they do wrong. We don't live in a police state (yet), and the bad cops need to be punished; otherwise, they make all the cops look bad. And therein lies the problem; police unions make it almost impossible to punish bad cops. Real reform needs to begin with the police unions.
 
Camper6 said:
Keeripes man. Why do you think they are rioting in the streets? For the good of their health? Or for the somewhat nebulous hope that changes will be made to stop the stupid mistakes?
If they are so highly trained as you are suggesting, then why in the world are these incidents arising?

O.K. So the knee on the neck has been washed out on the Minneapolis police force. It would still be in existence if it wasn't for the riots. Now why would the officers be charged if it was a 'simple mistake' as you called it.

Your comment.
"None of us is perfect, but the castigation of the police by anyone here is not acceptable. "

Oh yes it it. That's what forums are for. None of us is seeking perfection. And I didn't like your comment about "some who do not reside in this country". The forum is open to anyone who signs up. It's not restricted. It's an international forum. We are all anonymous here and what we say or comment is not going to change the law or anything else.

I can see as a former police officer you would take to defending the force. I would do the same thing.
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This was not to say that people from all nations are not welcome here. Of course they are, but I would no more comment on how another country is run publicly nor denigrate any of its policies in any way. I'd like to think that if I did, that nation's citizens could certainly be offended to the max. I see that someone still states the police are continuing to make mistakes. No, it is the perpetrators who make the mistakes. Criminal behavior is the biggest mistake ever and will be dealt with. Try arresting a criminal who is determined to kill you in cold blood before he'll let you take him in. If the citizenry cooperated with the police, there'd be less tragedies and probably lighter sentences.
 
Lewkat said:
This was not to say that people from all nations are not welcome here. Of course they are, but I would no more comment on how another country is run publicly nor denigrate any of its policies in any way. I'd like to think that if I did, that nation's citizens could certainly be offended to the max. I see that someone still states the police are continuing to make mistakes. No, it is the perpetrators who make the mistakes. Criminal behavior is the biggest mistake ever and will be dealt with. Try arresting a criminal who is determined to kill you in cold blood before he'll let you take him in. If the citizenry cooperated with the police, there'd be less tragedies and probably lighter sentences.
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Look. I'm not in favor of criminal behaviour by any means. And we are all news junkies and we have the same problems in our own country so we comment on it. We also visit other countries on vacation. The problem is how is it dealt with.

I wouldn't be offended if you commented on Canada's policing system at all. I live close to Minnesota. I get the Minnesota television channels. I have family living in the U.S. I visit there. We are not strangers looking for an argument.

I don't know about you. But some of the procedures used by the police are just not acceptable to the general population. At one time you didn't see some of the procedures. Now it's plastered all over the news. The policeman kneeling on the neck is just not acceptable to the general population.

And on top of that, we have had personal experiences with the police throughout our lifetime. Personally I was stopped by a policeman late at night who cut in front of me and then chased me and claimed I was speeding. I wasn't. I never speed and have never had a ticket in my life. I hate speeders. He didn't have his radar on and the only reason he chased me is because I blew my horn when he cut in front of me. It was an unmarked cruiser and had I know I wouldn't have blown my horn. I told him he caused a dangerous situation. He told me he had plenty of time to cut in front of me. I kept my mouth shut because I was going to fight a ticket if he gave me one and I would tell the judge that if he had plenty of time, then I couldn't have been speeding.
He sent in the information and my record stood for itself. No tickets in 65 years of driving.
You see it's experiences like this that make a citizen's trust waver. He cut in front of me instead of following me if he thought I was speeding so I think he was full of b.s.

This comment.
"If the citizenry cooperated with the police, there'd be less tragedies and probably lighter sentences."

In general the citizenry are law abiding people. The criminals will not co-operate with the police. And that has nothing to do with lighter sentences. The sentencing comes from judges.

I appreciate the opportunity to discuss this with a former police officer. I had coffee with a former police officer every morning before the virus situation.

I used to love discussing the law.
 
There was a time when Southern states complained about Northern states commenting on their racial policies, acting as if we are two nations, which, btw, is what is happening today. Maybe I shouldn't comment on Kentucky being from NY.

I value what the world has to say, particularly about us, the biggest influencer in the world for good or ill. I lived in Europe during part of Vietnam and saw how disgusted Europeans were with our policies there. Can't say it changed my opinion, because that already was my opinion.

There's one planet, one top species. We have the right to comment on anything.
 
Criminal behavior is the biggest mistake ever and will be dealt with. Try arresting a criminal who is determined to kill you in cold blood before he'll let you take him in. If the citizenry cooperated with the police, there'd be less tragedies and probably lighter sentences.
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Yes, Lewcat, and lately, a lot of that criminal behavior is being done by the police.

Your last sentence, "If the citizenry cooperated with the police..." sounds a lot like a fascist regime. Those countries demand compliance with the police, or you're thrown in a cell and the key thrown away. That may not be exactly what you mean, but good God, listen to yourself!
 

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