So Truly Proud of America !!!

Elyzabeth

Elyzabeth

Member
Location
Bristol, England
No other country in the world would admit that perhaps they have done something wrong...

thoroughly investigate it,

and then disclose to the world.....

all of the findings of the investigation.


THAT IS AMERICA,

and that is one of the things that makes America so great !
 

Born and raised here, and will die here, wouldn't want to be in any other country. America has more qualities than faults, IMO. Willingness to work on one's faults is an admirable thing.
 
Unless, of course, it was all about to come into the public arena anyway? I don't blame the CIA for hitting back at the Bush administration who pretended they knew nothing. As a rule, government depts usually like to keep things under wraps until there is a danger of a leak.
 
And why not keep hidden our military secrets and locations of supplies with very dangerous items from the nosey ones that really care less about our entire countries safety than their own bragging rights.
 
Elyzabeth, Thanks for your opinion of USA. I'm proud to be a member and not afraid to say so.

I feel the same about YOUR country, having been there and hope to visit again in the near future.
 
I came across the following article that talks about Canadian involvement in the US torture program and knowing that my government was actively involved does not make me proud. http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/12/13/cana-d13.html

In one case, our Supreme Court found in favour of 'the prisoner' Maher Arar and awarded him $10,000,000 recompense for my government setting him up to be tortured for a year in Syria where he gave false confessions as a result of the abuse he endured.

We also passed along detainees to American military as well as Afghani's, even though our military knew there was a strong likelihood they would be tortured. This is a violation of the Geneva Convention. And apparently 74 US flights heading for those 'black sites' stopped over in Canada with the full knowledge of their purpose by our government and RCMP.

The only reason that I'm mentioning this is to head off any accusations (yet again) that I'm just hating on the USA. I'm not, but I am 'hating on' abuse, illegal behaviour, lying, etc. Like I've said repeatedly, I don't think this sort of behaviour is acceptable regardless of who is doing it and the only way society evolves is if we face the darkness together and say 'no more'.
 
Well, you are still missing the intent of the word torture still. The US had our courts determine what would be legally declared to be torture and what we did with the water boards and other items did not meet the definition of torture. There has been from the beginning those that never want to accept and agree with our courts and their idea of torture. Sad that some think be kept in isolation, fed little, forced to stand, etc. is not definitely torture by our courts definitions and approvals.
 
Debby said:
Yeah gotta hand it to the people that commissioned the report. Brave thing to do.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately this report was only put together by the far left Democrats and not once shared and edited with all folks from the government. There were no interviews with actual government officials or military or legal at all, as I have understood it to be. Certainly not a real and valid showing of data and opinions at all. It was not a brave thing to do at all and our current defensive folks are very concerned about follow up from some of the radical groups around the world.
 
This matter of rectal feeding... IS BS.... These prisoners were not being fed.. they were being RAPED. It was solely for pain and humiliation and torture. For one thing, medically, you can not FEED a person through the rectum. Digestion takes place starting in the stomach... and the vast majority of nutrient absorption takes place in the small intestine.. NOT the colon. The colon is for reabsorption of water and some electrolytes and for the passage of waste. So when Cheney flaps his jaw about "medical" reasons for rectal feeding, HE IS LYING! but what else is new.. right?
 
BobF said:
Unfortunately this report was only put together by the far left Democrats and not once shared and edited with all folks from the government. There were no interviews with actual government officials or military or legal at all, as I have understood it to be. Certainly not a real and valid showing of data and opinions at all. It was not a brave thing to do at all and our current defensive folks are very concerned about follow up from some of the radical groups around the world.
Click to expand...


The report was based on the reading of 6,000,000 CIA documents that were written by CIA agents about the things they were doing to prisoners. I would think studying their own words, thoughts(?), writings would make it pretty clear what was done and the state of mind by those who were doing it.

The following link is a little Q & A in the NY Times. It mentions the 6 mill. documents, and the 6,000 page report done by Democrats and it also mentions that the Republicans chose not to participate. So it would seem that working together via a JOINT committee on this report wasn't important to them. That being the case, the Democrats can hardly be held responsible for that decision.

Also Matt Taibbi (renowned investigative journalist) did a piece on the ten weirdest things that the torturers apparently enjoyed doing a lot. See second link. And finally, the last link is the report itself if anyone is interested in wading through it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/10/us/politics/q-and-a-about-the-torture-report.html

http://www.rollingstone.com/politic...-the-senate-report-on-torture-20141210?page=2

http://www.intelligence.senate.gov/study2014/sscistudy1.pdf
 
BobF said:
Well, you are still missing the intent of the word torture still. The US had our courts determine what would be legally declared to be torture and what we did with the water boards and other items did not meet the definition of torture. There has been from the beginning those that never want to accept and agree with our courts and their idea of torture. Sad that some think be kept in isolation, fed little, forced to stand, etc. is not definitely torture by our courts definitions and approvals.
Click to expand...


It is very easy, as we sit in our comfy chairs and with visions of 'real' torture (the rack, the Iron Maiden, etc.) dancing like sugar plums in our heads, to dismiss what was done to those people as insignificant. But to suggest that because a committee approved those 'inconveniences' and declared them not to be (real) torture makes any of them actually not torture is to ignore the obvious which is that if the same things were done to you or one of your soldiers by another government, you'd be incensed.

And isn't one of the points of discussion that if an individual(group) is going to take the high moral ground, we expect them to not be engaging in the very acts they decry? If some pastor was known for pontificating on the evils of child porn or use of prostitutes and then it was found that he was engaging in those acts, would you be so easily accepting or would you point to his rhetoric and the obvious mismatch of his actions?
 
One reason there were only Democrats wanting to release this nonsense, is that most of the rest of the folks felt that what happened in the early terror days was the honest feeling of most folks for the early years after the New York, Pennsylvania, and Washington DC, activities by the attackers. For many years the fear was great and we even got support in the Congress for much of what was going on. To apply today's popular opinions to what happened years back is wrong and the facts for much should likely not been released publicly for many years to come. For our safety, and for the not yet ended activities, much of this could have been kept for future release. As I have read, much of this activity had been ended some years back but the many battles still continue and we could have kept quiet for longer times.

Your ideas are yours to keep, but for many folks in the US and around the world, this one sided report is wrong and definitely wrongly exposed as those battles still continue and have recently been getting worse. What you do believe is yours to believe. But lots of others, including the political groups that were not agreeing to release all these privately put together ideas, and get down to proper descriptions of what and why and when. Ignoring that the Democrats of those early years did support these actions and now making noises about putting so many folks on trial for so called errors of those early years, is both not true or necessary and should never have happened.

Why should anyone bother to read what has been reported to be a one sided report. Your analogies are really pretty bad and not at all connected to the release.
 
So in other words you aren't interested in the moral high ground and integrity? And you make excuses for not educating yourself as well. Hmmm, well the world is in fine shape then isn't it?
 
Debby said:
So in other words you aren't interested in the moral high ground and integrity? And you make excuses for not educating yourself as well. Hmmm, well the world is in fine shape then isn't it?
Click to expand...

Interesting comment. Who's moral high ground are we seeking? Who's integrity is being damaged by having different ideas? And not educating my self by somehow rejecting some posts? It depends on which part of the world being talked about. Your opinions only? Or maybe others ideas count too.

The report was apparently falsely put together and that pleases only part of one political party, not the nation. The worst is still yet to come as Australia may be finding out right now with a middle east religion threatening the people. The US is still fighting in the middle east, or should I say again; and so are some other countries.

Apparently not connection to the ways people were thinking for some time after the first attacks on the US. And those decisions were then agreed upon by the political parties and our courts. Now on a look back attempt to change history, that is all being tossed so more improper blame can be placed. Not sure who is not better educated at the moment.
 
Canucks punch above their weight..

America has a proud and generous history and is the second best country in the world. Wonderful neighbor and friend. Good on yez.



flag-canada-boxing-beaver.gif
 
And Canada is a very nice country to visit. I have toured the western provinces and liked them all. Did those tours in summer and fall, never in winter. Been in the three western units plus the island of Victori. Been a couple time just border crossing like across the river from Detroit into Canada. Never had a bad time. If younger and more capable I would do other trips to Canada. But to talk to Canadians, it is pretty easy here in southern Arizona in the winter. They show up in the fall in their motor homes or cars, hang around till spring, then go back to Canada.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top