Supreme Court overturning Roe v Wade?

Wontactmyage said:
So you think that every woman that has sex was raped?
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Now you are being deliberately obtuse. Within my lifetime husbands could rape their wives, often as punishment, and be immune from prosecution. Have you never heard of the term 'conjugal right'?

A report published by the United Nations in 2011 found that the majority of member countries still did not recognize rape as a crime when committed in the context of a marriage. Rape is legally defined as an act of penetration without consent. In the United States, rape within marriage is a relatively recently recognized crime. It is now illegal in all 50 states but even as late as 1976 rape was not recognized as a crime that could be committed within marriage in any state. The exchanging of the marital vows was deemed to be the giving of consent to sex from that point onwards. Even now, rape within marriage is not deemed as serious a crime as other forms of rape. Only 18 states make no distinction between rape committed within the legally defined relationship that is marriage and rape committed outside of marriage.

The change in law has not led to a widespread change in attitudes, and as with most prosecutions of rape, the burden of proof is on the victim rather than the accused. When the rape occurs within marriage, the presumption of consent in the marriage vows imply make successful prosecution only possible when physical injury or corroborating evidence is available, or if the couple are estranged in some way.

rape within marriage - Search (bing.com)
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Wontactmyage said:
I can not stress enough that this causes me so much angst. This should never have become a “political” issue because it is so much greater than that.
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Pepper said:
We will be flooded with Downs Syndrome, etc. kids. Yes, I dared to say that.
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I was not a downs child, I was the etcetera, unexpected. I was born with no anus opening, all my internal organs were free floating and premature (2 lbs.) while my fraternal twin was born with a full head of hair and a tooth and seven-ish lbs. I spent 13 years in and out of the hospital and multiple operations. My mother had two other children before my twin and I (my brother 18 months difference). Throughout my life I was challenged to keep up this my twin (which I did) and we graduated the same year (and no I was not given a break nor did I ask for one in the school system). My mom gave birth to me first and was on her way back to her room when she said she was having contractions my twin was born 1/2 hour after me. By grace, I was born first because if I was second who knows. I thank my twin for kicking me out first and my mom for keeping me so I had a chance to survive and thrive. For these reasons I am angst over the Rowe versus Wade.
 

oldaunt said:
It would also be very much rarer if sexually active women who don't want a child would just use birth control. There are MANY different ones to choose from, and many are given free. I am not against abortion for medical reasons, just as it is too often used as just another form of birth control. THAT is just lazy and ignorant.
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If this is overturned then contraceptives will be in question also as its quoted in the same context as this is.
 
Wontactmyage said:
Can you expound further on your statement? I’m a little lost in your statement.
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Sperm and egg are living tissue and can combine to make a fetus. A fetus is living tissue and can develop and result in a live birth. I do not believe that the sperm, egg, or fetus is a human life in the same sense as a living breathing person. And as such should not have the rights of a living breathing person.

We have to draw this line somewhere, this is where I believe it should be drawn. And as I said I do not think I am alone in this belief.

Given recent advances in cloning technology any live cell in our bodies has, or may soon have, the potential to produce a live birth.
 
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oldaunt said:
It would also be very much rarer if sexually active women who don't want a child would just use birth control. There are MANY different ones to choose from, and many are given free. I am not against abortion for medical reasons, just as it is too often used as just another form of birth control. THAT is just lazy and ignorant.
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Perhaps you are unaware that birth control is not 100% reliable. My daughter has 4 children. Only one of them was planned, the other three were the result of contraceptive failure. She was offered a termination for the first and the last one but she declined because she was confident that she would receive family support. It was her choice, and hers alone and she chose to continue the pregnancies.

The idea that women choose terminations as a form of birth control is demeaning to women. It is a very heavy decision to make and the decision should not be taken away because of other people's moral or religious views.

Judge not, lest you be judged - Matthew 7:1
 
Warrigal said:
And if the father has scarpered, having no intention of supporting the pregnant woman?

Abortion would be much rarer if every woman was guaranteed support to raise and educate her children.
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I can agree with you on the man scampering. I have difficulty with your ”her children” verbiage. Maybe if we put the man back into the responsibility role maybe, well maybe this could change a few roles or lack of roles men play. I think we have let them off the fatherhood hook long enough.
 
Alligatorob said:
Sperm and egg are living tissue and can combine to make a fetus. A fetus is living tissue and can develop and result in a live birth. I do not believe that the sperm, egg, or fetus is a human life in the same sense as a living breathing person. And as such should not have the rights of a living breathing person.

We have to draw this line somewhere, this is where I believe it should be drawn. And as I said I do not believe I am alone in this belief.

Given recent advances in cloning technology any live cell in our bodies has, or may soon have, the potential to produce a live birth.
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Thank you for this.
 
Sunny said:
Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows - POLITICO

This hasn't happened yet, but the Supreme Court seems to be indicating that that is what they are planning. It sounds to me like this would end Federal protection of abortion rights, but each state would have to vote (probably continuously) on whether it is legal. The predictable result would be that women seeking abortion would have to travel to the states where it is still legal. This would mainly affect those who are too poor to travel.

Do you think this will ever happen, or will some of the justices change their minds?
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Unfortunately, with the lean of the court at this time, I think it may happen, it wouldn't shock me. However, I try to be an optimist and hope that some of the justices change their minds before this is finalized. This will not only affect the right to choose, but also birth control access and medical care for women. If Roe, after all these years, is allowed to be trashed, next will be same-sex marriages, etc. It's a spiral downward that should not be taken lightly.

Certain people want to return to the 1950s and make women, gays, people of color, second class citizens. Luckily Colorado is not one of those backwards states that want to take individual rights away from their citizens. Nobody in government should be controlling the personal decisions that citizens make in the privacy of their doctor's office or their bedrooms. Once a woman becomes pregnant, she does not become property of the state with no right to choose what happens to her body. Those in positions of power need to stay out of people's bedrooms and doctor's offices...period.

Thankfully, Colorado is not one of those backwards states that want to take away rights to choose by women, or rights to freely and easily vote in elections, or rights to choose who they want to marry and spend the rest of their lives with. All Americans should take this seriously and get out and vote, before their right to vote is taken away from them.

 
I'm not pro-murdering babies.
I'm pro-Becky who found out at her 20 week anatomy scan that the infant she had been so excited to bring into this world had developed without life sustaining organs.
I'm pro-Susan who was sexually assaulted on her way home from work, only to come to the horrific realization that her assailant planted his seed in her when she got a positive pregnancy test result a month later.
I'm pro-Theresa who hemorrhaged due to a placental abruption, causing her parents, spouse, and children to have to make the impossible decision on whether to save her or her unborn child.
I'm pro-little Cathy who had her innocence ripped away from her by someone she should have been able to trust and her 11 year old body isn't mature enough to bear the consequence of that betrayal.
I'm pro-Emily who went through IVF, ending up with SIX viable implanted eggs requiring selective reduction in order to ensure the safety of her and a SAFE amount of fetuses.
I'm pro-Vanessa who went into her confirmation appointment after YEARS of trying to conceive only to hear silence where there should be a heartbeat.
I'm pro-Lindsay who lost her virginity in her sophomore year with a broken condom and now has to choose whether to be a teenage mom or just a teenager.
I'm pro-Courtney who just found out she's already 13 weeks along, but the egg never made it out of her fallopian tube so either she terminates the pregnancy or risks dying from internal bleeding.
You can argue and say that I'm pro-choice all you want, but the truth is:
I'm pro-life.
Their lives.
Women's lives.
You don't get to pick and choose which scenarios should be accepted.
It's not about which stories you don't agree with. It's about fighting for the women in the stories that you do agree with and the CHOICE that was made.
Women's rights are meant to protect ALL women, regardless of their situation!
#RoeVsWade #prochoice #abortion #women #womensrights #mybody #mychoice #mybodymychoice #prochoiceisprolife #mindyouruterus #notyourbodynotyourchoice #AbortionIsHealthcare #abortionisawomansright #isupporttherighttochoose
❤
 
Wontactmyage said:
I can agree with you on the man scampering. I have difficulty with your ”her children” verbiage. Maybe if we put the man back into the responsibility role maybe, well maybe this could change a few roles or lack of roles men play. I think we have let them off the fatherhood hook long enough.
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Of course her husband was involved in the decisions but in the end, she was the person who had sole authority to make the decision.

Let me present a hypothetical scenario - a woman is pregnant and for whatever reason does not want to carry the child to term. The father wants her to give birth to the child so he vetoes any termination. After the birth he abandons her for his new mistress. What are her chances of receiving child support to raise his child? Would she have the right to force him to raise the child himself? Would his mistress take on his child?

As I said, a hypothetical situation but so many women are left to raise their children on their own. When a woman already has her hands full with the children she has already birthed and cannot see her way forward to provide for another, should the state have the right of veto over a termination? Will the state promise to provide for her children?

On the other side of the coin, if the state has the right to veto terminations what is to stop the state mandating them for couples who want large families? We only have to look at China to see what a disaster it is to have the state deciding such matters. The one child policy was enforced with forced late term abortions and forced sterilisation.

IMO the best way to handle such matters is to leave the decision to the pregnant woman and her doctor.
 
Warrigal said:
As I said, a hypothetical situation but so many women are left to raise their children on their own. When a woman already has her hands full with the children she has already birthed and cannot see her way forward to provide for another, should the state have the right of veto over a termination? Will the state promise to provide for her children?
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Not in this country they won't. By and large, the states that are hot to outlaw abortion are also the stingiest when it comes to social services and other supports. They do have plenty of jails though and a willingness to use the death penalty.
 
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officerripley said:
I agree but I'm becoming more and more afraid that some want to return to the 1850s.
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... or the 1450s. 🤣

Hopefully, an organization will be set up to fund services that will allow poor women to travel to states where abortions are legal. I'd be more than happy to donate generously to such an organization. When abortions become illegal, that only affects poor women. Those with money can find a way.
 
SeniorBen said:
... or the 1450s. 🤣

Hopefully, an organization will be set up to fund services that will allow poor women to travel to states where abortions are legal. I'd be more than happy to donate generously to such an organization. When abortions become illegal, that only affects poor women. Those with money can find a way.
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From what I have seen on Twitter those funds are being collected already
 
Chet said:
How interesting that this issue comes up just before the election, to distract from the mess the country is in no doubt.
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For Sure! If we thought that the Covid mandates were dividing our population, just watch for the rhetoric that this R vs W argument is going to create....especially if R vs. W IS overturned.
Between Covid, Inflation, and now, this, 2022 is going to be a Very interesting year....the Midterms will be chaotic.
 
Marie5656 said:
I'm not pro-murdering babies.
I'm pro-Becky who found out at her 20 week anatomy scan that the infant she had been so excited to bring into this world had developed without life sustaining organs.
I'm pro-Susan who was sexually assaulted on her way home from work, only to come to the horrific realization that her assailant planted his seed in her when she got a positive pregnancy test result a month later.
I'm pro-Theresa who hemorrhaged due to a placental abruption, causing her parents, spouse, and children to have to make the impossible decision on whether to save her or her unborn child.
I'm pro-little Cathy who had her innocence ripped away from her by someone she should have been able to trust and her 11 year old body isn't mature enough to bear the consequence of that betrayal.
I'm pro-Emily who went through IVF, ending up with SIX viable implanted eggs requiring selective reduction in order to ensure the safety of her and a SAFE amount of fetuses.
I'm pro-Vanessa who went into her confirmation appointment after YEARS of trying to conceive only to hear silence where there should be a heartbeat.
I'm pro-Lindsay who lost her virginity in her sophomore year with a broken condom and now has to choose whether to be a teenage mom or just a teenager.
I'm pro-Courtney who just found out she's already 13 weeks along, but the egg never made it out of her fallopian tube so either she terminates the pregnancy or risks dying from internal bleeding.
You can argue and say that I'm pro-choice all you want, but the truth is:
I'm pro-life.
Their lives.
Women's lives.
You don't get to pick and choose which scenarios should be accepted.
It's not about which stories you don't agree with. It's about fighting for the women in the stories that you do agree with and the CHOICE that was made.
Women's rights are meant to protect ALL women, regardless of their situation!
#RoeVsWade #prochoice #abortion #women #womensrights #mybody #mychoice #mybodymychoice #prochoiceisprolife #mindyouruterus #notyourbodynotyourchoice #AbortionIsHealthcare #abortionisawomansright #isupporttherighttochoose
❤
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@Marie5656, absolutely the best, real-world post in this thread. If this doesn't shut some people down nothing will. I'm out!
 
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Murrmurr said:
Sounds to me like the decision is just whether or not to give each state the power to create their own laws. IOW, they'll decide whether it's a constitutional right, and remain under federal protection, or if it should be a state-level concern.
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I concur, but I think the issue is related to funding, not morality - nor constitutionally protected right. From a financial perspective alone, reversing Roe vs Wade will be devastating. This will not end well.
 
REPOST: Marie5656 said:
"I'm not pro-murdering babies.
I'm pro-Becky who found out at her 20 week anatomy scan that the infant she had been so excited to bring into this world had developed without life sustaining organs.
I'm pro-Susan who was sexually assaulted on her way home from work, only to come to the horrific realization that her assailant planted his seed in her when she got a positive pregnancy test result a month later.
I'm pro-Theresa who hemorrhaged due to a placental abruption, causing her parents, spouse, and children to have to make the impossible decision on whether to save her or her unborn child.
I'm pro-little Cathy who had her innocence ripped away from her by someone she should have been able to trust and her 11 year old body isn't mature enough to bear the consequence of that betrayal.
I'm pro-Emily who went through IVF, ending up with SIX viable implanted eggs requiring selective reduction in order to ensure the safety of her and a SAFE amount of fetuses.
I'm pro-Vanessa who went into her confirmation appointment after YEARS of trying to conceive only to hear silence where there should be a heartbeat.
I'm pro-Lindsay who lost her virginity in her sophomore year with a broken condom and now has to choose whether to be a teenage mom or just a teenager.
I'm pro-Courtney who just found out she's already 13 weeks along, but the egg never made it out of her fallopian tube so either she terminates the pregnancy or risks dying from internal bleeding.
You can argue and say that I'm pro-choice all you want, but the truth is:
I'm pro-life.
Their lives.
Women's lives.
You don't get to pick and choose which scenarios should be accepted.
It's not about which stories you don't agree with. It's about fighting for the women in the stories that you do agree with and the CHOICE that was made.
Women's rights are meant to protect ALL women, regardless of their situation!"
#RoeVsWade #prochoice #abortion #women #womensrights #mybody #mychoice #mybodymychoice #prochoiceisprolife #mindyouruterus #notyourbodynotyourchoice #AbortionIsHealthcare #abortionisawomansright #isupporttherighttochoose
❤
 

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