Supreme Court overturning Roe v Wade?

When I was a young woman having 4 kids in as many years, a lot of women were dying having abortions. Remember too that many young women got talked into having sex after all he would tell her "you can't get pregnant the first time" but as soon as she was pregnant the man disappeared! Back then he wasn't expected to support that child after it was born, and being pregnant and unmarried was looked at like it was all her fault and the crime of the century! Since abortions were illegal at the time, they ended up with people who knew nothing about about sterile conditions!

DH was a normal boy and he tried to talk me in to having sex, I resisted and good thing I did or I would have been one of those girls. I got pregnant about 3 weeks after we were married, we knew very little about birth control!
 

Sunny said:
That's disingenuous, Timewise, and you know it. Leave it up to the states? In other words, make it a red/blue issue?
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Sunny said:
In case you missed it, it already is and has been a Red/ Blue issue...noting disingenuous about my comments...did you agree that the Federal Government can dictate Covid vaccines...?

So, what happens if a poor woman who already has a houseful of kids and a husband/boyfriend who is unemployed and broke, or has just taken off because he couldn't stand it any more, finds that she is once again pregnant? Maybe because the guy refused to go along with using birth control, or allowing her to use it? Maybe because she's a little bit dim, or terrorized by the guy, or too overwhelmed to plan things intelligently? Or maybe because there is something drastically wrong with the baby or her own health, and there are overwhelming medical reasons she should not be pregnant again? And this problem appeared after she was already pregnant?
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Sunny said:
Who said no abortions? Not I!

Or a young teenager is raped, and her family refuses to allow abortion, forcing her to have the child? So, the Government takes over for the Parents? Now that's Crazy...

Or,, let's say a woman has no children because it would be life-threatening, but she/he slipped up once, or the birth control didn't work? Who SAID NO ABORTIONS, NOT I....

And the state in which she lives voted against abortion, in any and all circumstances? And it's one of those big western states, requiring a trip of several hundred miles each way to get to a state that is living in the year 2022 instead of 1822? NOW YOU ARE MAKING UP STORIES....!

And once she finally reaches the clinic in that state, near death from an exhausting trip for a sick person, she has to wait for weeks or months before she can get her abortion, because that state is overrun with thousands of others who fled from states who decided that abortion is not "legal or funded?" Do you really think the women in those situations would just stay put, heave a resigned sigh, and say, "Oh well, ho hum, guess I'll just have the kid because that's how they voted in my state?"

The whole purpose of Roe v. Wade is to protect us from the politicization of this issue, not to mention protecting the separation of church and state. If someone doesn't want to get an abortion because of her religion (or any other reason), that's fine. No one is forcing her to have one.

I would probably have never had an abortion, unless there was a life-threatening tragedy or a non-viable fetus. It never even entered my mind. But that doesn't give me the right to vote to outlaw abortion for every other woman in my state. It is a private, individual decision. NO ONE SAID NO ABORTIONS....JUST GET THE FEDS OUT OF IT!
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So much you say that I disagree with or I need to comment on, I don't know where to start...
 
mrstime said:
When I was a young woman having 4 kids in as many years, a lot of women were dying having abortions. Remember too that many young women got talked into having sex after all he would tell her "you can't get pregnant the first time" but as soon as she was pregnant the man disappeared! Back then he wasn't expected to support that child after it was born, and being pregnant and unmarried was looked at like it was all her fault and the crime of the century! Since abortions were illegal at the time, they ended up with people who knew nothing about about sterile conditions!

DH was a normal boy and he tried to talk me in to having sex, I resisted and good thing I did or I would have been one of those girls. I got pregnant about 3 weeks after we were married, we knew very little about birth control!
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Who said, no abortions...not I....just get the Feds out of it!
 

Don M. said:
I feel the Women should have the final say of what happens during a pregnancy.....and organizations like Planned Parenthood should be supported. If abortion became unlawful, the result would be in increase in deaths and serious complications for many women.

I'll begin to take these "anti-abortion" types seriously when I see them lining up to adopt all the unwanted children that are born every year.
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The anti-abortion crowd, often also opposes contraception, and ignores the fact that Planned Parenthood helps women obtain birth control options. Also counsels them so they can make informed decisions about both contraception and unplanned pregnancies!

That sentence i made bold? When i was 13 i almost lost my Mom because step Dad insisted she abort.(keep in mind her generation, the downside of husband 'ruling' over his wife). Ironically, the illegal abortion attempt revealed an ectopic pregnancy. In those days it likely would not have been discovered until she was hemorrhaging from damage the growing fetus did to her ovary.

Luckily, the ER doctor didn't mention the attempted abortion in his report tho Mom leveled with him. He considered the ectopic nature of the pregnancy to be the cause. It destroyed that ovary as it was and he told her odds of conceiving again should she want to were low.

A little over 2 yrs later she conceived again and the father again wanted her to abort. This time she refused, at 38 she considered it a miraculous last chance to have another biological child (she raised 3 step-daughters besides me). That baby, my beloved brother, would not exist if she'd let the previous pregnancy continue. Nor would his 3 children. Yet there are anti-abortion laws that would not allow a woman to abort even for medical reasons, risks to Mother's life.
 
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StarSong said:
I obviously am aware. Since the woman bears the consequences of an unintentional pregnancy, the decision to carry or terminate is ultimately hers. Are you suggesting that the father should be legally permitted to override her decision?
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In answer to your question which i made bold: Probaby. @Timewise 60+ is likely clueless how many men push the woman to have an abortion, or make clear they want nothing to with "it".
 
It turns out that Bret Kavanaugh may be the source of the leaked first draft of the SCOTUS ruling on Roe v Wade, but it might have been an accident.

WASHINGTON—In a public appeal for help, Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh has asked if “anyone has seen” a briefcase he accidentally left at a bar late last week.

Speaking to reporters, Kavanaugh said that, after work last Friday, he dropped into a bar near the Supreme Court “to have a few pops,” and inadvertently forgot to take his briefcase when he left.

Kavanaugh, who appeared to have some difficulty reconstructing the time line of the evening, said that he arrived at the bar “around seven” and that it was “ten, maybe ten-thirty when they asked me to leave.”

The jurist was evasive when asked to describe the contents of his briefcase, saying only that it was “work papers and junk” that he would “really like to have back.”
https://www.newyorker.com/humor/bor...iefcase-he-accidentally-left-at-bar-last-week
 
HarryHawk said:
I don't understand people who claim to use "science and critical observation" can argue that an unborn in the third trimester is nothing but an inconvenient random collection of cells.
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I have never heard anyone say that.

A fetus is human tissue and under the right conditions capable of one day creating a living breathing human. That is true no matter the semester. In fact with cloning and related technology so are many of the cells in our body. I believe the fetus is a part of the woman's body, not yet person, and not entitled to the same rights as a living human.
 
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Here is a Senator, clarifying so all can understand what the Supreme Court is actually dealing with...

NewsBeat
Sen. Moke Lee:.:"There's nothing in this decision making abortion unlawful. That is a fallacy. A fallacy pushed by the left to scare people. What this is saying is that decisions regarding abortion will be made by lawmakers. Primarily, almost exclusively, at the state level. Not at the federal level."
 
SeniorBen said:
... and war. And appose access to health care.
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I'm not weighing in on this subject. But generalizations like the ones you and others are making are extremely unhelpful. They tend to push opposing sides further apart. That's not what we need right now.

I've got people in my family who are "pro-life." They aren't ignorant or hateful. They have strong beliefs that are shared by a lot of people. The thing is, they will engage in reasonable discussion, but they don't like to be insulted.
 
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Geezer Garage said:
And you know exactly what that means, don't you. No choice, and no options for half the women in the country, especially those most in need.
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Some states that plan to remain abortion-friendly are already talking about providing free ground transportation for women in the nearest state that decides to limit the criteria for abortions or prohibit them altogether.
 
SeniorBen said:
It turns out that Bret Kavanaugh may be the source of the leaked first draft of the SCOTUS ruling on Roe v Wade, but it might have been an accident.

WASHINGTON—In a public appeal for help, Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh has asked if “anyone has seen” a briefcase he accidentally left at a bar late last week.

Speaking to reporters, Kavanaugh said that, after work last Friday, he dropped into a bar near the Supreme Court “to have a few pops,” and inadvertently forgot to take his briefcase when he left.

Kavanaugh, who appeared to have some difficulty reconstructing the time line of the evening, said that he arrived at the bar “around seven” and that it was “ten, maybe ten-thirty when they asked me to leave.”

The jurist was evasive when asked to describe the contents of his briefcase, saying only that it was “work papers and junk” that he would “really like to have back.”
https://www.newyorker.com/humor/bor...iefcase-he-accidentally-left-at-bar-last-week
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About as funny as a crutch, as we used to say.
 
JimBob1952 said:
I'm not weighing in on this subject. But generalizations like the ones you and others are making are extremely unhelpful. They tend to push opposing sides further apart. That's not what we need right now.
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Agreed, we don't need this, however an election is on the horizon and some obviously believe that this is exactly what they need, and right now.
 
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This has been an interesting thread to follow. Makes clear to me how deep the divisions are, and how deeply felt the different positions.

I sure hope we can find some compromise so that we spend a lot less time and effort debating this and just move on. But I am not hopeful.

Tempting to add one more jab on my opinions, but not much point in that.
 
Alligatorob said:
I sure hope we can find some compromise so that we spend a lot less time and effort debating this and just move on. But I am not hopeful.
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What are you compromising on? Can you/could you ever, have been pregnant, given birth?
I wouldn't want any female whether I know her, love her, or she is part of the great unknown, to be making compromises on her own body, her own life. Why would you?
 
Pepper said:
What are you compromising on? Can you/could you ever, have been pregnant, given birth?
I wouldn't want any female whether I know her, love her, or she is part of the great unknown, to be making compromises on her own body, her own life. Why would you?
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I agree with you, but it's not up to me and we live in a democracy. Finding the best possible compromise would be good for both sides.

Examples of possible compromise:
  • If the pro-choice people could give up on federal funding for abortion I think that might bring some of the anti-choice people a bit of comfort. Not me, I think the government should treat abortion just like other medical procedures, but that's going no where. It helps with the choice argument.
  • We could decide on some arbitrary line in time, 2nd semester, or whatever it would at least give women some certainty as to what they could do and not have to worry about what tomorrow's legislation would bring. Again if it were up to me I'd draw that line at live birth, but it ain't.
  • In return for concessions like these the anti folks would need to accept that within these rules they cannot control what a woman does with her body.
Not what I want, but the kinds of things we will have to be prepared to give on if we are ever to have resolution...
Pepper said:
Can you/could you ever, have been pregnant, given birth?
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Of course not, but this is a democracy, and I get as many votes as you do. If we are to get to any resolution we need to consider the opinions of both men and women. Besides I think you and I are more or less on the same side here.
 
Chet said:
This could be a separate thread, but if it's illegal to kill a person, when does "person-hood" happen after conception?
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Coming in late to this ongoing discussion but historically person-hood begins at the first breath. The birth of a still born baby was not registered.

In more recent times, a fetus does have some legal rights and if killed in a car accident, say, then the parents could sue but I'm not sure whether the legal right is the fetus' or the mother's right to safety.
 

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