The 2nd amendment does not give people the right to bear arms.

Don M. said:
I think the primary objective behind the 2nd Amendment was to allow the average citizen the ability to protect themselves from a Corrupted Government. Given the trend in recent decades for our government to be increasingly taken over by the wealthy 1%er's, and the major corporate/banking interests, and their Lobbies, Joe and Jane Average are becoming less relevant with every passing election. With the continued erosion of our Middle Class, the day may come when we are a nation of the Elite minority, and the Peasant Majority. This situation already exists in many nations where the people have no means of exerting influence, other than marching in the streets.

The wisdom of the 2nd Amendment could be all that stands between the bulk of our people...and a life of subservience....in the future.

The time to begin to be Really Concerned will be if the government ever tries to initiate a massive registration of all legal gun owners. Confiscation would be the next step.
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Don't get me wrong. I'm all for having a gun. But I always find this argument the most laughable of all. Do you really think if our government grows oppressive, you and your buddies are going to be able to match the fire power of the US government? Koresh thought that too. Owning a gun will protect you from crooks. I have one for such protection and wouldn't be without it -- great equalizer and all that. But, please, don't be in denial that it will in any way, shape or form be effective against an oppressive government in today's worlds. We're dealing with more than the red coats now and, face it, the US is basically the bully of the world. We're not going to take them on and win.

Oh, and have you looked around you lately? If you don't think we're already there with the wealthy minority oppressing the not so wealthy majority, you are deaf, dumb and blind. Just ask Sam Walton's heirs.
 

Don M. said:
You Obviously have No experience with firearms. I can guarantee you that No One who engages in our activities has any Beers until well after the days contests have ended, and all the weapons are unloaded and safely put away. Our "group" routinely hits the targets, and usually very close to the center. My personal best shot was a few years ago when I brought down a bull Elk on my cousins ranch in Wyoming at a distance of over 700 yards....with one shot. Any sensible gun owner learns how to use his/her weapon, and practices regularly at a local range, etc. The one's who get in trouble are those who buy a pistol, and stick it in the bedroom nightstand and never make the effort to learn how to use it and safeguard it.


Insofar as "regulating" by the government is concerned....if the government "regulates" firearms as well as they "regulate" everything else, we are in Deep Doo Doo.
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No... I don't claim to have experience with firearms.. and I think it commendable that YOUR group of gun buddies know how to handle their guns safely.. and wouldn't DREAM of having a few drinks along with the fun... However, can you guarantee that every little group of gun buddies do the same? You are giving me a ton of personal anecdotes... BUT... what you and your friends do in no way guarantees that ALL gun owners are as conciencious.. Hence... I think regulation wouldn't be a bad thing... I mean... in order to have the "Well REGULATED Militias that our Constitution calls for.. Don't you? If not the Government then WHO? The NRA?? Seriously... they used to represent gun owners and promote gun safety, but now they get their funding from the gun and ammo manufacturers.. ALL they want to do is make sure these folks continue to make money.. So this "well regulated" part is the one part of the Constitution you choose to ignore? How do you get to do that?
 
We ignore it the same way that you are ignoring the Heller ruling.
 

Blaze Duskdreamer said:
Don't get me wrong. I'm all for having a gun. But I always find this argument the most laughable of all. Do you really think if our government grows oppressive, you and your buddies are going to be able to match the fire power of the US government? Koresh thought that too. Owning a gun will protect you from crooks. I have one for such protection and wouldn't be without it -- great equalizer and all that. But, please, don't be in denial that it will in any way, shape or form be effective against an oppressive government in today's worlds. We're dealing with more than the red coats now and, face it, the US is basically the bully of the world. We're not going to take them on and win.
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My mind conjures up a pickup truck with guys with rifles and shotguns facing a Hellcat with heat seeking missles.. So much for self defense against our oppressive government.
 
Don M. said:
I think the primary objective behind the 2nd Amendment was to allow the average citizen the ability to protect themselves from a Corrupted Government. Given the trend in recent decades for our government to be increasingly taken over by the wealthy 1%er's, and the major corporate/banking interests, and their Lobbies, Joe and Jane Average are becoming less relevant with every passing election. With the continued erosion of our Middle Class, the day may come when we are a nation of the Elite minority, and the Peasant Majority. This situation already exists in many nations where the people have no means of exerting influence, other than marching in the streets.

The wisdom of the 2nd Amendment could be all that stands between the bulk of our people...and a life of subservience....in the future.

The time to begin to be Really Concerned will be if the government ever tries to initiate a massive registration of all legal gun owners. Confiscation would be the next step.
Click to expand...

I'm glad I didn't post on this earlier, you did a MUCH better job Don, I am with you. It was the government "for" the people, and is changing into the "government for the government". We best hold onto the rights we have.
 
nwlady said:
I'm glad I didn't post on this earlier, you did a MUCH better job Don, I am with you. It was the government "for" the people, and is changing into the "government for the government". We best hold onto the rights we have.
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And if the entire force of the US Military was used to quell an uprising? Would the "people" have a chance? I think this is foolish talk.. what good would your gun rights be in that instance?
 
It would be a big help if our elections could be taken from the Republicans and Democrats and turned into only single votes by unfettered folks. Nothing in our Constitution about Republicans and Democrats and over the years parties would come and go. But not in the last 100 years or so. It is supposed to be the sum of the votes of the people that should make up our government and the way we wish to go. Not at all the responsibility of any political party, no matter which policies they really want. They can advertise and preach, but it is still the people that should make the final decision.
 
Entire force won't be there, most are my next door neighbor nationguards. Our kids play together. Who knows what would happen when he is gone. Now you know why Nanci Pelosi and Diane Feinstein hate 50 cal. Sniper rifles and they aren't even talking about wide band width white noise jammers.
 
QuickSilver said:
And if the entire force of the US Military was used to quell an uprising? Would the "people" have a chance? I think this is foolish talk.. what good would your gun rights be in that instance?
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You really know little of history (His Story) because you don't even know how "much" of our military would follow a government say, similar to Hitlers or other dictators.
 
One example of a government that allows all to have guns and they have little in the form of crime and such. Compared to the US and lots of other countries. Think of Switzerland and how they live today and have lived for hundreds of years. They have always kept up with the weapons, arrows to guns, and what ever comes next. The US could be just a successful as the Swiss if we all just followed the Constitution and stopped all this political nonsense that is becoming our problem. It is pretty obvious that we do not have very education of the younger folks on things about honesty, fairness, punishment for failing to do what is expected of our people. Why is that? We can have a freer society than what we have now if proper training is given. Apparently the Swiss do have some sort of society that behaves and want to take care of themselves and their neighbors.
 
nwlady said:
You really know little of history (His Story) because you don't even know how "much" of our military would follow a government say, similar to Hitlers or other dictators.
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Oh I know more than you give me credit for.. You talk of the 1% taking over.. THAT I agree with.. they are.. and they are doing it by buying the government little by little.. through the conservative courts willing to make rulings as ridiculous as Citizen's United. Since 60% of the budget goes to the Military, do you REALLY think the Military would join the populace? OR would it side with those paying their salary and keeping them working? Think about it. Generals would ensure the Military defends the Government...

What sort of "Revolution" do you foresee? Do you really believe enough of the populace would get off their collective asses to take up arms? OR would it more likely be a few hundred good ole boys in trucks storming some military base.. or the Capital building.. and quickly meeting their Maker. The whole thing in nonsense... The ONLY way change will happen will be for people to STOP voting against their own interests and get rid of the people allowing the greedy 1% to take all the candy.
 
I'd be more concerned with protecting my family and property in the case of a national disaster, like the grid going down either from a solar flare or attack. If people can't access their money, can't put gas in their cars, can't buy any food or water from the stores, then things will get ugly. I'd worry more about having guns and ammo just for protection from the criminal element, who will steal, vandalize, etc. to take anything you may have for themselves...rather than the government taking over.

Just localized disasters like Katrina, or the floods in Colorado, created a field day for the criminals, breaking into cars, homes, and stealing everything they could.
 
nwlady said:
You underestimate me, and others. Look beyond what you would do and see what others "have" done.
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One thing I WOULDN'T do.... and that would to be stupid enough to take up arms against the US Military. Our government would never be overturned by force. It would have to be at the ballot box..
 
SeaBreeze said:
I'd be more concerned with protecting my family and property in the case of a national disaster, like the grid going down either from a solar flare or attack. If people can't access their money, can't put gas in their cars, can't buy any food or water from the stores, then things will get ugly. I'd worry more about having guns and ammo just for protection from the criminal element, who will steal, vandalize, etc. to take anything you may have for themselves...rather than the government taking over.

Just localized disasters like Katrina, or the floods in Colorado, created a field day for the criminals, breaking into cars, homes, and stealing everything they could.
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I agree, and that's a possibility as well as lots of other possibilities. The main thing I think of is to have a way to defend myself, and loved ones/friends if something should open the door to attacks. There is always a chance of collateral damage, or misuse of our defenses but what is the alternative? Have zero defenses. I do think some folks think that if the law-abiding don't have access to weapons, we will be better off. I really don't get that way of thinking.
 
As someone here previously said, I think we all have the right to protect ourselves from harm. I, for one, wouldn't want to just cower in a corner somewhere hoping for the best.
 
SeaBreeze said:
I'd be more concerned with protecting my family and property in the case of a national disaster, like the grid going down either from a solar flare or attack. If people can't access their money, can't put gas in their cars, can't buy any food or water from the stores, then things will get ugly. I'd worry more about having guns and ammo just for protection from the criminal element, who will steal, vandalize, etc. to take anything you may have for themselves...rather than the government taking over.

Just localized disasters like Katrina, or the floods in Colorado, created a field day for the criminals, breaking into cars, homes, and stealing everything they could.
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Totally agree. That's a much more likely scenario, as has been demonstrated time and again throughout our history.

QuickSilver said:
Our government would never be overturned by force. It would have to be at the ballot box..
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Do you actually believe that you could overthrow a system by religiously following the rules it has set out for you? Do you not think that they would be more than willing to abrogate whatever responsibility they had for "playing fair"?

That government counts on having people like that, the ones that will lay down and roll over, instead of the ones that would fight outside the system.
 
SifuPhil said:
Totally agree. That's a much more likely scenario, as has been demonstrated time and again throughout our history.



Do you actually believe that you could overthrow a system by religiously following the rules it has set out for you? Do you not think that they would be more than willing to abrogate whatever responsibility they had for "playing fair"?

That government counts on having people like that, the ones that will lay down and roll over, instead of the ones that would fight outside the system.
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OMG, DITTO Phil, they do count on that. And when "rolling over" doesn't do them any good anymore, they are looking for those "outsiders" to hide behind;)
 
The biggest political mistake a politician could make would be to use Fed. Troops against US citizens on US soil. Given the outdoor nature of many military and their sworn duty to the constitution you really think they would follow some general? Besides most of them are NRA members. About the time any federal action such as you are describing happened it would be all over the Internet, unless the system was shutdown by hackers and blamed on guess who?
Any seabreeze is correct, it's the looters that are the problem not the protesters. the federal government needs the backing of pro gun people to cover there back.
Currently there at least 50,000 people in Conn. And Maryland that stand in violation of not registering "assault rifles". In Colorado there is at least 500,000 in violation of not registering their high capacity magazines. Where's the fed troops QS?
the reason is because the fed will have to go up assist local law enforcement and who have already sent letters to Obama telling they would not enforce these laws. If this was happening in the states which specifically prohibit violations of the constitution the feds would be arrested. Aren't any of the previous posts sinking in?
 
SeaBreeze said:
I'd be more concerned with protecting my family and property in the case of a national disaster, like the grid going down either from a solar flare or attack. If people can't access their money, can't put gas in their cars, can't buy any food or water from the stores, then things will get ugly. I'd worry more about having guns and ammo just for protection from the criminal element, who will steal, vandalize, etc. to take anything you may have for themselves...rather than the government taking over.

Just localized disasters like Katrina, or the floods in Colorado, created a field day for the criminals, breaking into cars, homes, and stealing everything they could.
Click to expand...


THAT is the most likely danger the average citizen faces in this day and age. Open warfare is rapidly becoming Obsolete, and a far more likely scenario would be a "computer" hack of our electrical grid...for example. The recent Sony episode shows just how creative these cybercriminals can be. A localized power outage, that lasts for more than a few hours, can be a real hassle for those affected. Just imagine how devastating a nation wide loss of power would be. Recently there was a report of some agency testing a "hack" of an electrical power generator by causing a rapid reversal of the polarity in the power being generated. It literally tore the generator apart. There have been numerous reports about the vulnerability of our electrical grid to a major hacking, and how the entire grid could quickly become overloaded and collapse for an extended period of time. I'm sure such reports have not gone unnoticed by rouge nations like N. Korea and Iran....or, even China and Russia.

Were the nation ever to go "dark" for more than a few hours, our society would quickly begin to collapse. The thugs would begin to loot and stores would quickly be emptied of anything worthwhile. Food would begin to spoil within a day or two, water would be unavailable without the electric pumps, gas stations would be inoperable...in short, virtually everything we take for granted would be gone. In such an environment, Anarchy would take over within a matter of days, and no amount of police/national guards, etc., would be able to do anything about it. Humans would be just a fine line away from reverting back to their savage survival instincts.

Were such a scenario ever to occur, the Bleeding Heart, Anti-Gun crowd would be begging for someone with a gun and ammo to take them in and protect them from the chaos.
 
Don M. said:
THAT is the most likely danger the average citizen faces in this day and age. Open warfare is rapidly becoming Obsolete, and a far more likely scenario would be a "computer" hack of our electrical grid...for example. The recent Sony episode shows just how creative these cybercriminals can be. A localized power outage, that lasts for more than a few hours, can be a real hassle for those affected. Just imagine how devastating a nation wide loss of power would be. Recently there was a report of some agency testing a "hack" of an electrical power generator by causing a rapid reversal of the polarity in the power being generated. It literally tore the generator apart. There have been numerous reports about the vulnerability of our electrical grid to a major hacking, and how the entire grid could quickly become overloaded and collapse for an extended period of time. I'm sure such reports have not gone unnoticed by rouge nations like N. Korea and Iran....or, even China and Russia.
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They've talked a lot about the poor condition of the grid and how it has not been maintained at all or prepared for any event, on the Coast radio show with George Noory. He's making some attempts to change that...http://www.wnd.com/2014/08/end-is-near-radio-star-launches-emp-warning/
 
Our entire Infrastructure is in sore need of repair/rebuild. I don't think there has been a major dam built since the days of the Great Depression. Most of our highways and bridges were built 50+ years ago, as part of the Interstate Highway projects. Our electrical grid is a patchwork of overhead power lines and poles that are quickly approaching their end of life....a major storm system Always knocks out power to large numbers of people. As these hackers and rogue nations increase their skills, and continue to blame the US for all their own shortcomings, the possibility of them targeting our grid continues to increase.

If our government really wanted to help shore up our Middle Class, and reduce the levels of poverty, it would have ongoing programs that devoted billions of tax dollars, yearly, to maintaining and upgrading our Infrastructure, and putting large numbers of people to work in good paying jobs....instead of just letting them vegetate on food stamps.
 

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