The Derek Chauvin Trial

Pink Biz said:
It doesn't matter what George Floyd did or didn't do on May 25, 2020, or the day before that or the month before that or the year before that. All that matters is that a depraved "maggot" (as witness Charles Macmillan described him) murdered him.Period. Everything else is a feeble distraction and an insult to the jury's intelligence.
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Why even have a jury if we're just going to send people to prison without looking carefully at the crime? Why have a justice system at all if it's that easy to know evil when we see it? If that were the case George Floyd wouldn't have been in Cup Foods at all on May 25, 2020. Someone would have looked at a film of him holding a woman at gun point, in her own home, in front of her toddler and decided they had witnessed evil and put him in prison for life.

I haven't heard anyone say they think Chauvin is completely innocent. The question the jury has to decide is not just if he's innocent or not but, if guilty, what degree of murder he's guilty of. Without learning the extenuating circumstances, including what George Floyd did that day, the jury wont know whether Chauvin is guilty of second degree murder, third degree murder, or manslaughter. I hope the jury will consider all the evidence and try Chauvin as fairly as possible. He shouldn't be held responsible for America's history.
 

Pink Biz said:
It doesn't matter what George Floyd did or didn't do on May 25, 2020, or the day before that or the month before that or the year before that. All that matters is that a depraved "maggot" (as witness Charles Macmillan described him) murdered him.Period. Everything else is a feeble distraction and an insult to the jury's intelligence.

Have we not witnessed enough evil in this country to recognize it when it occurs? Read some history to learn what you probably were spared in school. I recommend Howard Zinn's classic "A People's History of the United States" for starters.

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It does matter to a lot of people that George Floyd was attempting to commit a felony, and was under the influence of fentanyl and methamphetamine at the time he was stopped. I personally don't know anyone that would want someone, in George Floyd's condition, out on the street, at risk of endangering innocent peoples lives.
I definitely feel George Floyd needed to be taken into custody that day.
 

Pepper said:
GF was a functioning addict @saltydog . I don't mean functioning in bourgeoisie lingo, I mean he was used to being stoned and knew how to deal with his everyday life & routines. He functioned and didn't 'need' to be taken into custody.
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Yes agreed, he was a high functioning addict according to those who knew him, and according to his girfriend in her statement in the witness box
 
Della said:
I can't watch Floyd in the back seat thrashing and kicking and question whether or not there was resistance.

I'm not sure Chauvin killed him on purpose, but, if he was angry enough to do that, I think it was partly over the physical struggle with Floyd and partly because the people in the crowd were screaming insults at Chauvin, making him stubborn and defiant. I just don't think Chauvin killed Floyd over that twenty dollar bill and that's what I keep hearing people say. Not that any of that excuses Chauvin, but I think it might explain him a little bit.

I'll always wonder if Chauvin would have stopped if the crowd had just gone quiet for one single minute. They all say they feel guilty for not doing more for Floyd, but I wonder if any of them ever felt guilty for not shutting up, when their shouting and screeching all at once was adding so much stress to the situation.
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We can't expect normal people to watch a police officer slowly murder a handcuffed suspect for 9 minutes without reacting.
 
win231 said:
We can't expect normal people to watch a police officer slowly murder a handcuffed suspect for 9 minutes without reacting.
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Why would you say that to me specifically? Are you implying that I enjoyed that? I was horrified when I first saw that and every single time since. I've said since last May that Chauvin deserves to go to prison for what he did.

Because, I believe that does it mean I have to slant every piece of evidence I see in one direction only? Am I required to watch Floyd struggling against the small officer who was trying to get him to sit in the squad car and pretend to myself that he was sitting quietly in the car?

I'm trying to look at the evidence with an open mind, but I guess that makes me a horrible person who loves watching people die. You have insulted me too much with that. I'll bow out of this discussion.
 
Della said:
Why would you say that to me specifically? Are you implying that I enjoyed that? I was horrified when I first saw that and every single time since. I've said since last May that Chauvin deserves to go to prison for what he did.

Because, I believe that does it mean I have to slant every piece of evidence I see in one direction only? Am I required to watch Floyd struggling against the small officer who was trying to get him to sit in the squad car and pretend to myself that he was sitting quietly in the car?

I'm trying to look at the evidence with an open mind, but I guess that makes me a horrible person who loves watching people die. You have insulted me too much with that. I'll bow out of this discussion.
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Why not review your post (#172)where you said: "I'm not sure Chauvin killed him on purpose, but, if he was angry enough to do that, I think it was partly over the physical struggle with Floyd and partly because the people in the crowd were screaming insults at Chauvin, making him stubborn and defiant."
That obviously makes it sound like you're partly blaming people in the crowd screaming at Chauvin, when 100% of the blame belongs on him.
 
win231 said:
Why not review your post (#172)where you said: "I'm not sure Chauvin killed him on purpose, but, if he was angry enough to do that, I think it was partly over the physical struggle with Floyd and partly because the people in the crowd were screaming insults at Chauvin, making him stubborn and defiant."
That obviously makes it sound like you're partly blaming people in the crowd screaming at Chauvin, when 100% of the blame belongs on him.
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From what I've seen, the small crowd (certainly not an unruly mob, by any stretch) was urging Chauvin to get off of Mr. Floyd's neck when he was obviously in distress. Even if the crowd had been calling Chauvin every foul name in the book, police officers are supposed to be professional and not let their judgment be affected by the crowd. And if Chauvin did kill Mr. Floyd because he became "stubborn and defiant" because of the crowd, that is in itself damning.

Testimony by paramedics who came to the scene says that Chauvin still had his knee Mr. Floyd's neck when they arrived, even though Mr. Floyd was unresponsive and had neither pulse nor respirations and appeared to be dead and obviously no further threat (if he had ever been) to the officers. Paramedics had to get Chauvin off Mr. Floyd before they could even attempt to treat him.
 
Butterfly said:
And if Chauvin did kill Mr. Floyd because he became "stubborn and defiant" because of the crowd, that is in itself damning.
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It certainly is damning. It shows what an unprofessional cop he is and what a small, cowardly, immature human being that he would rather let a man die than allow the crowd to tell him what to do.

I was just thinking it might have saved Floyd's life if the bystanders had shut up, because whatever they were telling him to do it clearly was having the opposite effect. You can talk about what a professional would have done all you want but obviously they weren't dealing with a professional. They were dealing with a bully who couldn't stand criticism and the end result of their screeching was a death. That doesn't make it their fault, but it would have been nice if they had put their own egos down for a minute and either quit screaming instructions and insults, or taken over. At that point I don't think who was right and who was wrong was as important as keeping Floyd alive.

Every time I listen to it, I hear a whole lot of people screaming over each other so you can barely understand what they're saying and "You're a bum" which they say was repeated 17 times. Did Donald Williams really think those insults would make Chauvin stop? Who ever did what you wanted them to do because you called them a name? Or did he just want to hear his own voice 17 times? If anyone had the muscle to push Chauvin off it was Williams, but oh that's right, his energy wouldn't allow that.

Of course Chauvin is 100% to blame for the death that's why he is the one who is probably going to prison for murder 2. That doesn't mean Geniveive and Williams, who sounded so proud of themselves on the witness stand, acted for the best for Floyd that day.
 
Oh poor police officer who couldn’t control himself from murdering a suspect while being detained as bystanders and witnesses yelled at him in criticism? It’s the by standers fault that he murdered Floyd?

I’m so glad to know my perception is different.

Ok! Time to move on from less controversial, depressing subjects.


Why do I keep doing this to myself. 🥺
 
Della said:
It certainly is damning. It shows what an unprofessional cop he is and what a small, cowardly, immature human being that he would rather let a man die than allow the crowd to tell him what to do.

I was just thinking it might have saved Floyd's life if the bystanders had shut up, because whatever they were telling him to do it clearly was having the opposite effect. You can talk about what a professional would have done all you want but obviously they weren't dealing with a professional. They were dealing with a bully who couldn't stand criticism and the end result of their screeching was a death. That doesn't make it their fault, but it would have been nice if they had put their own egos down for a minute and either quit screaming instructions and insults, or taken over. At that point I don't think who was right and who was wrong was as important as keeping Floyd alive.

Every time I listen to it, I hear a whole lot of people screaming over each other so you can barely understand what they're saying and "You're a bum" which they say was repeated 17 times. Did Donald Williams really think those insults would make Chauvin stop? Who ever did what you wanted them to do because you called them a name? Or did he just want to hear his own voice 17 times? If anyone had the muscle to push Chauvin off it was Williams, but oh that's right, his energy wouldn't allow that.

Of course Chauvin is 100% to blame for the death that's why he is the one who is probably going to prison for murder 2. That doesn't mean Geniveive and Williams, who sounded so proud of themselves on the witness stand, acted for the best for Floyd that day.
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The bystanders had a natural human reaction to what they were witnessing - just as we're having a natural human reaction to what you're posting.
 
win231 said:
The bystanders had a natural human reaction to what they were witnessing - just as we're having a natural human reaction to what you're posting.
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I suppose your "natural human reaction" is to believe that anyone who is trying to understand how this could have happened is someone who is making excuses for Chauvin. You see Floyd as entirely Good and Chauvin as entirely Evil, nothing in between, no need for a trail. Clearly that's what you want to believe and it makes it nice and easy then, to judge me as Evil also, because I see shades of good and shades of bad in most people.

I guess your plea for us to all get along is your way of saying, "Can we all just agree with Win." Sorry, not happening. This thread is to discuss the trial and that's what I'm doing. If you want a thread where everyone competes to see who can hate the hardest with the strongest statements against Chauvin you should start it -- although I think Aunt Marg has already won and more power to her. It's her opinion and she's entitled to it, just like I'm entitled to mine, without you calling me abnormal.
 
Della said:
I suppose your "natural human reaction" is to believe that anyone who is trying to understand how this could have happened is someone who is making excuses for Chauvin. You see Floyd as entirely Good and Chauvin as entirely Evil, nothing in between, no need for a trail. Clearly that's what you want to believe and it makes it nice and easy then, to judge me as Evil also, because I see shades of good and shades of bad in most people.

I guess your plea for us to all get along is your way of saying, "Can we all just agree with Win." Sorry, not happening. This thread is to discuss the trial and that's what I'm doing. If you want a thread where everyone competes to see who can hate the hardest with the strongest statements against Chauvin you should start it -- although I think Aunt Marg has already won and more power to her. It's her opinion and she's entitled to it, just like I'm entitled to mine, without you calling me abnormal.
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Unfortunately, you're wasting your time and effort on this one Della....
 
Della said:
I suppose your "natural human reaction" is to believe that anyone who is trying to understand how this could have happened is someone who is making excuses for Chauvin. You see Floyd as entirely Good and Chauvin as entirely Evil, nothing in between, no need for a trail. Clearly that's what you want to believe and it makes it nice and easy then, to judge me as Evil also, because I see shades of good and shades of bad in most people.

I guess your plea for us to all get along is your way of saying, "Can we all just agree with Win." Sorry, not happening. This thread is to discuss the trial and that's what I'm doing. If you want a thread where everyone competes to see who can hate the hardest with the strongest statements against Chauvin you should start it -- although I think Aunt Marg has already won and more power to her. It's her opinion and she's entitled to it, just like I'm entitled to mine, without you calling me abnormal.
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You're a champion exaggerator. I don't know Floyd, so I can't see him as good or evil. I have seen what Chauvin did (as we all have) & we know that is evil.
When you try to place any blame on bystanders, you are making ridiculous excuses for Chauvin's murderous act.
 
1. There are going to be opinions of the onlookers that they were so called enablers, because they did not physically intervene.

2. There are going to be opinions that repeated attempts to yell chauvin off of floyd simply fueled his fire, thus they were guilty of complicity.

3. There are going to be opinions that all who demanded Chauvin stop were heroes or such.

I go with # 3.
 
win231 said:
You're a champion exaggerator. I don't know Floyd, so I can't see him as good or evil. I have seen what Chauvin did (as we all have) & we know that is evil.
When you try to place any blame on bystanders, you are making ridiculous excuses for Chauvin's murderous act.
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I strongly agree. Should the bystanders have remained silent? That would have been tacit agreement with what Chauvin was doing.

I believe Chauvin did what he did because he is a bully and a racist and felt himself to be very much superior to Mr. Floyd and was going to teach Mr. Floyd and the bystanders a lesson by his display of brute force.
 
I'm so surprised that the other cops, who testified, didn't stand up for this guy. Usually, they all stick together on a really implausible story. Also, kneeling a guy's throat, while he's handcuffed is way over the line. Do I think cops would get a kick or two in, on a handcuffed dude, if they were frustrated? Oh yeah. But this is enjoying kneeling on someone's neck. Do we know anything about Chauvin's background? That kind of behavior just doesn't pop up only once.
 
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fuzzybuddy said:
I'm so surprised that the other cops, who testified, didn't stand up for this guy. Usually, they all stick together on a really implausible story. Also, kneeling a guy's throat, while he's handcuffed is way over the line. Do I think cops would get a kick or two in, on a handcuffed dude, if they were frustrated? Oh yeah. But this is enjoying kneeling on someone's neck. Do we know anything about Chauvin's background? That kind of behavior just doesn't pop up only once.
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So true. Chauvin had 18 complaints over his 19 year career and the nightclub owner who hired him as security guard said he had a reputation for being overly aggressive. Sounds like he should have been fired long ago.
 
saltydog said:
It does matter to a lot of people that George Floyd was attempting to commit a felony, and was under the influence of fentanyl and methamphetamine at the time he was stopped. I personally don't know anyone that would want someone, in George Floyd's condition, out on the street, at risk of endangering innocent peoples lives.
I definitely feel George Floyd needed to be taken into custody that day.
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Do you ever give a thought to the far greater number of people, under the influence of alcohol. out on the street at risk of endangering people's lives. Does DUI ring a bell? Let's get in the real world and not just pick out abuses that we don't happen to have. Maybe we should have all drunks treated in the same manner as Floyd. Based on the reasoning of some, we'd all be safer.
 
win231 said:
That's usually the case with such cops. And complaints are usually not taken seriously, which is why they get away with it for so long.
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Two other cops who committed murder & got away with it for many years because police didn't want to investigate their own, despite countless complaints & evidence: They put the victims' families through hell. Police concluded "Some burglar must have killed her."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Sherri_Rasmussen

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drew_Peterson
 
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