The Derek Chauvin Trial
- Thread starter Chet
- Start date
This appears to be the applicable statute concerning the $20.00 bill:
18 USC 471
Whoever, with intent to defraud, passes, utters, publishes, or sells, or attempts to pass, utter, publish, or sell, or with like intent brings into the United States or keeps in possession or conceals any falsely made, forged, counterfeited, or altered obligation or other security of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.
The 4 degrees of Mens Rea (culpable mental state) are:
1. Knowingly
2. Willfully
3. With general intent (won't apply here)
4. With specific intent.
I boils down to whether George Floyd knew it was actually counterfeit? If it was an old style 20 without the new security enhancements, it may actually be hard to tell?
18 USC 471
Whoever, with intent to defraud, passes, utters, publishes, or sells, or attempts to pass, utter, publish, or sell, or with like intent brings into the United States or keeps in possession or conceals any falsely made, forged, counterfeited, or altered obligation or other security of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.
The 4 degrees of Mens Rea (culpable mental state) are:
1. Knowingly
2. Willfully
3. With general intent (won't apply here)
4. With specific intent.
I boils down to whether George Floyd knew it was actually counterfeit? If it was an old style 20 without the new security enhancements, it may actually be hard to tell?
Sassycakes
SF VIP
- Location
- Pennsylvania
Aside from the fact that George Floyd was murdered brutally and it breaks my heart, I worry that many people will think poorly of all Police officers for the cruel heartless cruelty Chauvin did to Mister Floyd. Most Police officers put their lives on the line protecting all of us. I hope and pray no other Police Officer will get disrespected because of a creep like Chauvin.
The truth of the matter is, where there's a Chauvin, there's 4-5 other officers from the same tainted mold right behind him.
The video of the George Floyd incident is testament to that.
Sassycakes
SF VIP
- Location
- Pennsylvania
You are right about that. I've wondered why they didn't stop Chauvin from his cruel and brutal treatment of George Floyd.
Because they were cowards, Sas.
You commit a sin against the code of conduct if you dis another officer. Look what happened to Frank Serpico!
Code or not, I would have stepped in, even being a woman.
If I had to I would have drawn my gun on Chauvin.
Right is right, and wrong is wrong.
Irwin
Well-known Member
- Location
- Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
Unless Chauvin is punished, the entire police force will look bad.
I don't see how the jury could arrive at any verdict other than guilty, though. Even other cops are testifying that what he did was wrong and broke from department policy. Plus he had a long history of misconduct.
I don't see how the jury could arrive at any verdict other than guilty, though. Even other cops are testifying that what he did was wrong and broke from department policy. Plus he had a long history of misconduct.
He has 17 formal complaints against him, most being that he was overly aggressive.
hollydolly
SF VIP
- Location
- London England
Morries Hall a convicted felon himself, was in the car with GF.. and after George was killed Morries Hall ran to Houston where the police found him a week later in hiding . He has now said he will refuse to testify in this case, and if forced will plead the 5th. He said he feared for his life which is why he disappeared immediately to Texas despite at the time stating he would be GF's voice....
Now the police have arrested him on a 3 year old domestic battery charge, and got him locked up in a cell.. it's said that Chauvins' defence are going to use this as a get out of jail free card.... if he testifies etc...
However.. I couldn't get my head around why Morries disappeared in the first place, what was he really scared of, he seemingly did nothing wrong..
..but this picture has now surfaced... and it shows Morries Hall handing something to GF in the store... now could it be the Fake $20 dollar note? Was he the one who got GF killed for a fake note ?..is this really what he is afraid of being discovered ?
This would make his disappearance far more plausible. If the Black community discover he was the reason behind GF getting arrested in the first place then he's in big trouble.. and equally with the Police..
Therefore in my mind if he is forced to testify in this case.. he will be caught like a rat in the middle of a cage if it's proven he passed that $20 dollar note.... and this is really what he's afraid of....
Now the police have arrested him on a 3 year old domestic battery charge, and got him locked up in a cell.. it's said that Chauvins' defence are going to use this as a get out of jail free card.... if he testifies etc...
However.. I couldn't get my head around why Morries disappeared in the first place, what was he really scared of, he seemingly did nothing wrong..
..but this picture has now surfaced... and it shows Morries Hall handing something to GF in the store... now could it be the Fake $20 dollar note? Was he the one who got GF killed for a fake note ?..is this really what he is afraid of being discovered ?
This would make his disappearance far more plausible. If the Black community discover he was the reason behind GF getting arrested in the first place then he's in big trouble.. and equally with the Police..
Therefore in my mind if he is forced to testify in this case.. he will be caught like a rat in the middle of a cage if it's proven he passed that $20 dollar note.... and this is really what he's afraid of....
Just like every witness that testifies, it will come down to his credibility. If the defense can find something in the Lieutenant's past that would reflect negatively on his reputation, it could be a game changer. You will need to wait until the defense to present their case before making such statements.
But, just to be clear, we never taught the knee to neck position to our Cadets. At the FBI training Academy, they do teach it, but recommend it be used in only extreme situations. For example; if an officer or a Trooper would be taking down a suspect who is resisting arrest, it may be used, but only until he has been restrained by cuffing. If the suspect is a "kicker," it's recommended that he/she also be leg-shackled.
My son is a store cashier and he happened to walk in and watch that whole scene with me. The first thing he said was. "Look he's tweaking! When someone starts acting jittery like that the whole atmosphere changes and we get sort of quiet, watching them out of the corners of our eyes. Look! His friend is handing something off to him, that's something else we watch for."
Floyd and Morries had been in together earlier and Morries had tried to pass a counterfeit twenty and failed. I think this was their attempt to try it again with a different person using the bill. In any case Morries didn't get Geroge killed, George knew all about that bill, and it wasn't the bill that got him killed. Whether he was ripping young Christopher off for twenty dollars (which he seemed to be trying to do) or had been stealing a pack of $2000 out of a register, it doesn't matter. It was resisting arrest that got him killed.
hollydolly
SF VIP
- Location
- London England
Yep I agree to a certain extent... but if it hadn't have been for that $20 dollars , GF would be alive today ...probably
One fact you can't avoid: Once Floyd was handcuffed, the resistance (if there was any) stopped & Chauvin deliberately committed murder.
saltydog
New Member
- Location
- Northern California
I feel all the evidence presented back in May, 2020, led me to believe George Floyd was on the road to destruction the day he died.
There is a stark difference between destruction and murder.
SetWave
Well-known Member
- Location
- Monterey Bay
I think I read that those complaints won't be brought at trial.
SetWave
Well-known Member
- Location
- Monterey Bay
Exactly. We have the luxury of being in the court of public opinion.I may be pretending to be the 15th juror, but I'm not really. I'm a free citizen, watching from my recliner, and I can state my opinion anytime I want. And then my opposite opinion the next day.
I can't watch Floyd in the back seat thrashing and kicking and question whether or not there was resistance.
I'm not sure Chauvin killed him on purpose, but, if he was angry enough to do that, I think it was partly over the physical struggle with Floyd and partly because the people in the crowd were screaming insults at Chauvin, making him stubborn and defiant. I just don't think Chauvin killed Floyd over that twenty dollar bill and that's what I keep hearing people say. Not that any of that excuses Chauvin, but I think it might explain him a little bit.
I'll always wonder if Chauvin would have stopped if the crowd had just gone quiet for one single minute. They all say they feel guilty for not doing more for Floyd, but I wonder if any of them ever felt guilty for not shutting up, when their shouting and screeching all at once was adding so much stress to the situation.
It doesn't matter what George Floyd did or didn't do on May 25, 2020, or the day before that or the month before that or the year before that. All that matters is that a depraved "maggot" (as witness Charles Macmillan described him) murdered him.Period. Everything else is a feeble distraction and an insult to the jury's intelligence.
Have we not witnessed enough evil in this country to recognize it when it occurs? Read some history to learn what you probably were spared in school. I recommend Howard Zinn's classic "A People's History of the United States" for starters.
Have we not witnessed enough evil in this country to recognize it when it occurs? Read some history to learn what you probably were spared in school. I recommend Howard Zinn's classic "A People's History of the United States" for starters.
JimBob1952
Senior Member
Howard Zinn
Howard Zinn was a Communist sack of s___, a Stalin follower whose book is full of lies and distortions. It's popular for just that reason: Because it portrays the US as the worst country in history, much worse, for example, than the Stalinist USSR. Since people on the left want to believe that, and since many teachers and professors are on the left, they assign the book to their students as an "antidote" to the prevailing wisdom about the US being a good country.
What would we say about a book written by a man who believed fervently in the goodness and greatness of Adolf Hitler? Yet Zinn's oversimplified caricature of history -- written by a man who believed in the goodness and greatness of Josef Stalin -- gets assigned to high schoolers who often never read another work of history.