The fast-food industry claims minimum wage law is costing jobs. Its numbers are fake

[againstthegrain]

But it wasn’t the definition by which people were enslaved. It was the control of resources, of sticks and carrots, which enabled those who controlled the resources to keep human beings as chattel. So it may sound a little simplistic to call fast food workers slaves, but it still makes sense to ask why do people do that work for so little. It has been suggested that it is only transitional work for the young to do while their upkeep is still provided largely by their parents. But I’d it only young people employed in that profession? Seemingly not.

As a result we have a class of people whose work life is monopolized doing work which cannot be stretched to cover minimal requirements. It therefore falls to society as a whole to provide medical care out of the emergency room and to supplement the cost of food and shelter. It is certainly socialism, but who does it serve? Who is profiting? It is only the employers who benefit. The employees do not advance and the society made up of people who work for a living are being drained so that the employers may profit.

Slavery is just a word. It doesn’t look exactly like that but it is certainly exploitive.

Yup, but at the end of the day many are angry cause their McDonald's cost more and if McD's employee's have to depend on .gov to meet the basic requirements of life to get me my cheap food, well so be it.

 

[Knight]

But it wasn’t the definition by which people were enslaved. It was the control of resources, of sticks and carrots, which enabled those who controlled the resources to keep human beings as chattel. So it may sound a little simplistic to call fast food workers slaves, but it still makes sense to ask why do people do that work for so little.

You ask
Why do people do that work for so little?

There is no one answer to that question.

I think this is a major factor. Despite being a leading driver of employment growth for decades, manufacturing has shed employment over the past 40 years as the U.S. economy has shifted to service-providing industries. In June 1979, manufacturing employment reached an all-time peak of 19.6 million. In June 2019, employment was at 12.8 million, down 6.7 million or 35 percent from the all-time peak.1 Since 1979, employment fell during each of five recessions, and in each case, employment never fully recovered to prerecession levels.

The statistic shows the distribution of the workforce across economic sectors in the United States from 2011 to 2021. In 2021, 1.66 percent of the workforce in the US was employed in agriculture, 19.18 percent in industry and 79.15 percent in services.

Service jobs are needed & valuable to our way of living but the cost to employers to provide a service is competitive. As witnessed in media stories about California when the cost exceeds to ability to stay in business they either raise prices or close. Those on the lower end of the pay scale are hurt the most.

As againstthegrain pointed out people earning a low wage is why government safety nets began to surface. When coupled with government help some of the drive to excel IMO goes away. And government help isn't going away, state & federal deficits will continue to rise. Those with better high paying jobs will be taxed higher as time passes.

 

[Brookswood]

I disagree. The point is, this is about entry level employment not long term jobs that take ongoing training with increased wages as skills & on the job performance are evaluated.

My example of fire fighter vs fast food should be a clue that after entry level change in responsibly is different.

Why would wage controls stop with entry level jobs?

The recent fast food minimum wage does not apply to fast food joints that also sell freshly baked bread.
Why does fresh baked exempt a fast food joint from paying this living wage? Do people who also bake bread have a higher cost of living than those who don’t bake bread at work?

https://ktla.com/news/california/ap...-clause-got-into-california-minimum-wage-law/

As California prepares to enforce a new $20-per-hour minimum wage for fast food workers next month, an unusual exemption for eateries that bake their own bread has come under scrutiny due to allegations it was initially intended to benefit a wealthy donor to Democratic Gov. Gavin Newsom’s campaign.

But details have been hard to come by because of a tactic rarely associated with public policymaking: a signed confidentiality agreement that prevents some private groups from talking about their negotiations.

 

[ElCastor]

Link: The fast-food industry claims the California minimum wage law is costing jobs. Its numbers are fake


More here.

Your source claims that fast food employment has increased, so what's the problem? More workers with significantly higher wages, or so you claim. Here are some alternate numbers...

"California fast food restaurants have slashed nearly 10,000 jobs because of the state’s new $20 minimum wage as struggling franchises cut labor costs and raise prices to survive, a major trade group said Thursday."
California fast food restaurants have cut 10,000 jobs thanks to state’s $20 minimum wage: trade group

Seems reasonable. A sharp increase in the cost of labor is bound to be reflected in higher prices and thus a cut in that significantly more costly work force. Who would wish to deny the obvious? Perhaps those who were behind the wage increase in the first place?

 

[VaughanJB]

Nice try.
Using slavery is a nice appeal to emotion. But when definition of the word slavery is known that appeal goes away.
What is the real definition of slavery?

slavery, condition in which one human being was owned by another. A slave was considered by law as property, or chattel, and was deprived of most of the rights ordinarily held by free persons.Jun 2, 2024.
If I understand your position all employers should pay wages that provide a high standard of living no matter what.
For me capitalism works with employers either making a profit & employing people or failing. Failure is often undone when a better business model replaces it in the market place.

Nice try? Hardly. You have taken a very narrow definition of the word "slavery", and applied it inappropriately, and then accused ME of doing so. Weird.

Words can have multiple meanings, as you know. Another definition of slavery is "a condition of having to work very hard without proper remuneration or appreciation. "female domestic slavery" Similar: drudgery, toil, (hard) slog, hard labour, grind"

I realize, as an American, that any mention of the word "slavery" triggers thoughts of our ancestral history - but the English language is very flexible.

 

[againstthegrain]

^^^Is the 10,000 jobs lost a bunch of kids working a few hours each a week? Or is it 10,000 jobs of people working 40 hours a week and now losing health care and retirement?

Of course they don't mention how many have been hired in the same period or describe what the normal turnover would be so one might get a somewhat fair comparison.

"figures never lie, but liars can figure"

 

[papa tiger]

Near $15 for a burger diner is too much and the burgers are different now.
I can buy a bag of buns, a tub of Ham Salad for 8 meals, more affordable.

Sure, even add a Tub of Chicken Salad Too. Now I have 16 lunches, split
the buns and toast em. Then I add a tub of Baked Beans and one of Potato
Salad $30 and that’s 16 meals of good eats.

Then I can buy tubs of turkey meat, It doesn’t seem to be glued. Pick ears of
Sweet corn and I Happy camper.

I noticed the addition of more fast food places in the New Build area in the New For
Fast Food‘s drive thru Park.

Not for me. + the Row after row of new Look alike Pro-Office Buildings.
Sure, economy growth now is fast food and Pro-Office building parks,
every need on earth now solved.

My most expensive single purchase is a large tin of Folgers.

 

[Knight]

Words can have multiple meanings, as you know. Another definition of slavery is "a condition of having to work very hard without proper remuneration or appreciation. "female domestic slavery" Similar: drudgery, toil, (hard) slog, hard labour, grind"

Nice try? Hardly. You have taken a very narrow definition of the word "slavery", and applied it inappropriately, and then accused ME of doing so. Weird.

Words can have multiple meanings, as you know. Another definition of slavery is "a condition of having to work very hard without proper remuneration or appreciation. "female domestic slavery" Similar: drudgery, toil, (hard) slog, hard labour, grind"

I realize, as an American, that any mention of the word "slavery" triggers thoughts of our ancestral history - but the English language is very flexible.

True words can have multiple meanings.

Proper remuneration as we know is pay for work performed. The decision for that is between an employer & perspective employee. The employer offers, the perspective employee accepts and works for the wage or declines.

IMO the difference relative to this thread is people aren't forced to apply for a job & work for fast food employers. There is no mystery about what wage will be paid, the hours worked, benefits if any. But just for interest lets try to apply your words to a job in fast food.


"female domestic slavery"-- not part of the fast food industry, can't begin to compare.

"drudgery"-- applicable if "hard" is removed & boring is left in.

"toil, (hard)"-- I don't understand how "hard" would be part of this. Maybe you can give an example of the "hard" part of a fast food employees job.

"slog"-- Back to hard again.

"hard labour"--as in chain gangs not even comparable. Unless you can provide an example of "hard labour" in a fast food workers job.

 

[VaughanJB]

True words can have multiple meanings.

Proper remuneration as we know is pay for work performed. The decision for that is between an employer & perspective employee. The employer offers, the perspective employee accepts and works for the wage or declines.

IMO the difference relative to this thread is people aren't forced to apply for a job & work for fast food employers. There is no mystery about what wage will be paid, the hours worked, benefits if any. But just for interest lets try to apply your words to a job in fast food.


"female domestic slavery"-- not part of the fast food industry, can't begin to compare.

"drudgery"-- applicable if "hard" is removed & boring is left in.

"toil, (hard)"-- I don't understand how "hard" would be part of this. Maybe you can give an example of the "hard" part of a fast food employees job.

"slog"-- Back to hard again.

"hard labour"--as in chain gangs not even comparable. Unless you can provide an example of "hard labour" in a fast food workers job.

Which just supports the idea that you're okay with slave labor in your country. Me? I'm not.

 

[Knight]

Which just supports the idea that you're okay with slave labor in your country. Me? I'm not.

Nice try.

I don't know how you equate asking for a job, accepting the wage that is known at the time as slavery. I used your words without editing, including remuneration. For whatever reason you can't explain your posting that an employee at a fast food place is a slave.

This has strayed from job loss & closers due to the state mandated $20.00 an hour wage increase. If I remember some of your previous post you prefer closures. How does that help?

How exactly would you assure every person doing the massive variety of jobs as you seem to be suggesting be remunerated equally?

 

[VaughanJB]

Nice try.

I don't know how you equate asking for a job, accepting the wage that is known at the time as slavery. I used your words without editing, including remuneration. For whatever reason you can't explain your posting that an employee at a fast food place is a slave.

This has strayed from job loss & closers due to the state mandated $20.00 an hour wage increase. If I remember some of your previous post you prefer closures. How does that help?

How exactly would you assure every person doing the massive variety of jobs as you seem to be suggesting be remunerated equally?

I don't prefer closures. I prefer sustainable businesses. Sustainable means it works for everyone, including the workers. I believe that a business that can only afford to pay $4 an hour, has less worth than one able to pay $20 an hour. It has less value. To the business owner, it may not be the case - but to society it very much is. Certainly to the workers, it matters.

This is not about making sure people are paid at the same rate. it's about the making the poorest of us be able to sustain a minimal life without resort to government benefits. It's about a MINIMAL amount of recompense, based on the cost of living in particular state. People having a roof over their heads and not living in their cars. Being able to buy food and feed themselves rather than get government benefits or go to food kitchens. Being able to get some healthcare.

People are able to earn as much as they're able. They are free to earn more. Less means we have homeless and the deprived.

 

[papa tiger]

With inflation we need to earn $11 more an hour in 10 years future time. At least. $30 now $41 then. But AC, Plumbing, Auto repair are charging $200 now. See where it all implodes soon.

 

[Knight]

People are able to earn as much as they're able.

That is where we agree. We need to agree the ability to earn is many faceted. Even in a socialist society homelessness & deprived exist.

How do you overcome those various factors to assure the kind of utopia you envision?

 

[againstthegrain]

How do you overcome those various factors to assure the kind of utopia you envision?

The answer or at least part of it, in the state of CA's opinion expressed in CA law, is make FF workers MIN wage $20/hr. Glad I could clear that up for you and get us back on topic.

 

[Knight]

Link: The fast-food industry claims the California minimum wage law is costing jobs. Its numbers are fake


More here.

Now that we are back to the beginning, maybe the fast food industry isn't entirely to blame for job loss.
California currently leads the nation in job losses, with a recent wave of layoffs particularly hitting the tech sector hard, according to the latest federal government data.

According to the Federal Reserve of Economic Data (FRED), some 482,700 residents of California lost their jobs since the beginning of this year, positioning the Golden State as the biggest job loser in the country. It was followed by Texas with 274,900 job cuts, then New York with 220,600, Illinois with 155,700, and Florida with 141,900.

Overall, the first quarter of 2023 has seen 931,700 Californians left jobless—a 20 percent surge compared to the same period in the previous year.

California Leads the Nation in Job Losses: Federal Data

Maybe after 6 months of data collection the impact of the rise to $20.00 & hour will be clearer.

 

[papa tiger]

California is a Closed State, so Unions are clearly welcomed there. Cal. knows its citizens have to earn good money to pay their taxes and high costs of housing that is basically low life poorly built. That's Whan my friends says.

 

[VaughanJB]

That is where we agree. We need to agree the ability to earn is many faceted. Even in a socialist society homelessness & deprived exist.

How do you overcome those various factors to assure the kind of utopia you envision?

Sorry, there's a couple misunderstandings there.

It's not a utopia. Wanting the best for people at the bottom of the pyramid doesn't mean it's a grasp for a utopia. Fairness is extremely important, and a lot of issues today exist because the distance between the haves and have not's has grown too wide. A utopian view would be very different. Minimum wage levels aren't some crazy dream, they are a reality. It's about fairness, not wanting a utopia.

It's also nothing to do with a socialist society. Capitalism works WITH ADEQUATE REGULATION. Without it, it does not work well. The capitalism you and I know operates under an ever-changing blanket of regulation, standards, and laws. Take all that away and there is simply no incentive for the top 1% to give a damn about the other 99%. Sadly, they must be forced too. I don't know anywhere in the world with completely unregulated capitalism.

 

[VaughanJB]

California is a Closed State, so Unions are clearly welcomed there. Cal. knows its citizens have to earn good money to pay their taxes and high costs of housing that is basically low life poorly built. That's Whan my friends says.

Indeed. Minimum wage employees will pay tax, and will spend their money in their communities. They ADD to society.

 

[VaughanJB]

Now that we are back to the beginning, maybe the fast food industry isn't entirely to blame for job loss.
California currently leads the nation in job losses, with a recent wave of layoffs particularly hitting the tech sector hard, according to the latest federal government data.

According to the Federal Reserve of Economic Data (FRED), some 482,700 residents of California lost their jobs since the beginning of this year, positioning the Golden State as the biggest job loser in the country. It was followed by Texas with 274,900 job cuts, then New York with 220,600, Illinois with 155,700, and Florida with 141,900.

Overall, the first quarter of 2023 has seen 931,700 Californians left jobless—a 20 percent surge compared to the same period in the previous year.

California Leads the Nation in Job Losses: Federal Data

Maybe after 6 months of data collection the impact of the rise to $20.00 & hour will be clearer.

Again, losing jobs that don't meet Minimum wage levels aren't really a loss. As for tech, you really need to discuss why that sector is retracting. It's got nothing to do with minimum wage levels. And if the tech sector has regression it makes sense silicon valley would be affected more than most places.

 

[WhatInThe]

The California law raising the minimum wage law for fast food workers also raised management salaries with a $87,000K year minimum.

MSN

Again this can come back on a franchise owner let alone the corporate owners. That was a $24,000 a year raise for management with the minimum already at $63,000. These raises pile up even on corporate if they have multiple locations.

 

[Brookswood]

i

Again, losing jobs that don't meet Minimum wage levels aren't really a loss.

They are a loss if you are a high school or college student, living at home and only need to earn spending cash for small day to day expenses. I did that for 5 years.

 

[dilettante]

It's all about robbing from the working class to give to the poor. It creates a larger class of serfs to cater to the gentry who then sit even higher on the relative economic scale. They congratulate themselves on their accomplishment in broadening the gap between filthy workers and "their betters."

Classic case of not outrunning the bear, just outrunning you.

 

[VaughanJB]

They are a loss if you are a high school or college student, living at home and only need to earn spending cash for small day to day expenses. I did that for 5 years.

Now, that's a valid point. However, a 14 year old working gets $10.50 an hour in California. The reason minimums are set is because, frankly, if a company could hire them for a $1 a day, they would.

 

[Brookswood]

Now, that's a valid point. However, a 14 year old working gets $10.50 an hour in California. The reason minimums are set is because, frankly, if a company could hire them for a $1 a day, they would.

What’s with the 14 year old wages? Lets not mix up youth labor with that of legal adults.. Let’s keep it at people old enough to vote and sign a binding contract.

I was actually in the age range of 18 to 23 when I worked at or near minimum wage.

My dad would have never let me work for the then equivalent of today’s $1 an hour even if I was foolish enough to agree to it.

 

[againstthegrain]

The California law raising the minimum wage law for fast food workers also raised management salaries with a $87,000K year minimum.

MSN

Again this can come back on a franchise owner let alone the corporate owners. That was a $24,000 a year raise for management with the minimum already at $63,000. These raises pile up even on corporate if they have multiple locations.

You missed the part where the owners have the option to pay managers hourly + OT and what did they do? They raised the salary so OT is uncompensated.

hmmmmm Capitol probably still getting the better end of the deal.