The Kyle Rittenhouse Trial: What Will Be the Outcome?

Rittenhouse is being tried for several crimes...

He's charged with killing Joseph Rosenbaum. This is my understanding of what happened in that crime.
  1. Somebody else fired a handgun. I don't think it's known who that was.
  2. Rosenbaum went chasing after Rittenhouse. Did Rosenbaum think Rittenhouse fired the shot?
  3. Rosenbaum was unarmed but was shouting obesities at Rittenhouse. He threw a bag of medical supplies at Rittenhouse and grabbed the gun barrel.
  4. Rittenhouse may have assumed it was Rosenbaum who fired the shot and thus, in self-defense, shot Rosenbaum.
  5. Obviously, had Rittenhouse not been brandishing his illegally obtained and carried assault-style rifle, Rosenbaum wouldn't have gone after him.
  6. Rosenbaum was a perceived threat to Rittenhouse but not an actual threat. I don't know what the standard is for self-defense in Wisconsin. Does the threat need to be real or simply perceived?
  7. In traffic accidents, if one of the drivers involved was driving without a valid drivers license, I believe that person is automatically at fault since he or she shouldn't have been behind the wheel in the first place, providing, of course, that the other driver was driving legally. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. So if that's the case, if someone who is illegally carrying a gun, uses that gun in a shooting and kills someone, is he or she automatically in the wrong, even if it's in an act of self-defense?
Next!

He's charged with killing Anthony Huber.
  1. Huber chased after Rittenhouse after Rittenhouse killed Rosenbaum.
  2. Huber was unarmed and was probably trying to prevent anyone else from being shot by Rittenhouse. With all the mass shootings we've seen by people with assault-style rifles, that was a pretty heroic thing to do.
  3. Rittenhouse felt threatened as he was surrounded by people trying to get his weapon. That's the part where he broke down on the witness stand and cried uncontrollably when recalling the event.
He's charged with shooting and injuring Gaige Grosskreutz
  1. Grosskreutz was armed with a pistol, which he pointed at Rittenhouse but never fired. Rittenhouse was on the ground at the time.
  2. Did Grosskreutz tell Rittenhouse to "drop your weapon" or anything like that. Grosskreutz ran up to Rittenhouse, probably in an attempt to disarm Rittenhouse and prevent another shooting.
  3. Rittenhouse shot Grosskreutz but not fatally.
  4. Is that self-defense? Again, Rittenhouse may have perceived Grosskreutz to be a threat, but not in actuality.
There are other charges... illegally obtaining and brandishing a weapon and a few other misdemeanors. I'm not sure at this point how I'd decide as a juror. I'll need to learn more about the laws in Wisconsin and get some more details on the case.

In the sentencing phase, a few things are clear... Rittenhouse has shown absolutely no remorse for killing two men and injuring another. He was wearing a t-shirt with the words "FREE AS F*CK" on it a few weeks after the shootings. He attended a white supremacist meeting afterwards and flashed white supremacist hand signs.

In all likelihood, Rittenhouse is a sociopath. How can you kill another human being and not be affected by it? That a sure sign of sociopathy.

We shall see if the judge factors those things into his sentencing.
You neglected to mention that Anthony Huber hit Rittenhouse on the head with his skateboard. As stupid as can be.
As for Grosskreutz, when someone points a gun at you, it would be really stupid to tell him to "drop your weapon." Do you really think any police officer in his right mind wouldn't immediately shoot to stop someone who was already pointing a gun at him?
 

Do you really think any police officer in his right mind wouldn't immediately shoot to stop someone who was already pointing a gun at him?
Only the dead ones...

No expert here, but I have always believed that you should only point a gun if you plan to quickly use it, and assume the same of others.
 

I think he will be shown leniency because he is young and illiterate. Judge appears to be sympathetic.
Illiterate? No. But his attorney is tech illiterate. He kept saying logarithm instead of algorithm. He also questioned the use of the pinch-to-zoom feature when showing a video because "artificial intelligence" could distort the original video.

The judge appears to be sympathetic? The judge is biased. For crying out loud! His phone rang during proceedings, and his ringtone played "God Bless the USA", the theme song for Trump rallies.

The judge refused to allow prosecutors to refer to the dead men as victims but allowed the defense to refer to them as "looters" or "rioters".

The judge has not allowed any mention of Rittenhouse's Proud Boys connection. Proud Boys is a far-right, neo-fascist organization made up of exclusively male members, and has been declared a terrorist organization in Canada.

The defense attorneys filed a motion to dismiss the case with prejudice, and the judge is "taking it under advisement". If granted, dismissing with prejudice means the case cannot be retried.

My guess is that this poor little underage boy (my words), whose mother drove him across state lines armed with an AR15, will walk free.
 
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You are confused. Rittenhouse was not shooting until he was assaulted by 3 morons.
Would you criticize a police officer who shot someone who pointed a gun at him? Please tell us how much sympathy you would have for a cop's victim in that situation.
Or clubbed him in the head with a skateboard?
I am not confused at all, I am trying to verify your moral stance and perspective. Here[in bold,above] your are giving the Rittenhouse scumbag the same status as a police officer? Simply amazing.
 
Only the dead ones...

No expert here, but I have always believed that you should only point a gun if you plan to quickly use it, and assume the same of others.
Exactly.
When someone has a firearm in their possession the intentions are clear: they are prepared to kill someone, plain and simple. Nobody in their right mind carries a firearm just to "scare" off the bogyman, even that will get you a felony.
 
Exactly.
When someone has a firearm in their possession the intentions are clear: they are prepared to kill someone, plain and simple. Nobody in their right mind carries a firearm just to "scare" off the bogyman, even that will get you a felony.
So, you are agreeing that Grosskreutz came prepared to kill someone... right? checkmate.
 
Where did you get that? We're talking about Rittenhouse here.
Yes, you said referring to Rittenhouse... "When someone has a firearm in their possession the intentions are clear: they are prepared to kill someone, plain and simple".
So, what I took from that quote is you would you then agree that Grosskreutz came prepared to kill. Right?
 
Yes, you said referring to Rittenhouse... "When someone has a firearm in their possession the intentions are clear: they are prepared to kill someone, plain and simple".
So, what I took from that quote is you would you then agree that Grosskreutz came prepared to kill. Right?
I wasn't referring to Grosskreutz specifically, but I can see how you assumed that. See my edited post.
 
I see that you are getting defensive, I have no "position", ridiculous or otherwise...I'm questioning your quite ridiculous position, which you're apparently sensitive about.
Don't bother to reply, unless you have something more substantial to say other than gibberish and obfuscation.
You are speaking from a moral perspective. That's where your confusion lies. I am speaking from a legal perspective. Morals are completely irrelevant.
I think Rittenhouse is an idiot; just as I think Zimmerman is an idiot. But being an idiot doesn't take away the right to self defense. And being an idiot doesn't make someone guilty of a crime.
There were four idiots in this case: Rittenhouse, Huber, Grosskreutz & Rosenbaum.
 
I think Rittenhouse is an idiot; just as I think Zimmerman is an idiot. But being an idiot doesn't take away the right to self defense. And being an idiot doesn't make someone guilty of a crime.
There were four idiots in this case: Rittenhouse, Huber, Grosskreutz & Rosenbaum.
Yep, 2 idiots who stupidly and unnecessarily, but not unlawfully caused the deaths of others. And 3 who got shot for their own stupidity.

Life is hard, harder if you are stupid.
 
You are speaking from a moral perspective. That's where your confusion lies. I am speaking from a legal perspective. Morals are completely irrelevant.
I think Rittenhouse is an idiot; just as I think Zimmerman is an idiot. But being an idiot doesn't take away the right to self defense. And being an idiot doesn't make someone guilty of a crime.
There were four idiots in this case: Rittenhouse, Huber, Grosskreutz & Rosenbaum.
@win231, thanks for your reply. No "confusion" here, but just so you know if I sense someone's attempting to hide the meaning of their words...I'll be asking hard questions.
"Morals are completely irrelevant", O.K., we can leave morality out of a discussion about Rittenhouse's trial, don't want anybody getting confused over morality and the law. :rolleyes: So the victims were "idiots" as you say, there is a saying about bravery & stupidity: " Bravery and Stupidity are the same thing, the outcome determines your label." So if one of the 3 victims had been able to kill Rittenhouse he'd be a hero instead of an idiot. The former potus said the same about disabled veterans(called soldiers who died fighting for their country “losers” and “suckers” and that he asked a military parade to exclude wounded veterans because “nobody wants to see” amputees.), a pretty contemptible statement if you ask me.
 
Had Rittenhouse simply been defending himself, as he claims, he would have dropped his weapon and possibly even rendered aid to Rosenbaum, who before that point, was his only victim. Instead, he ran away with his rifle drawn. People in the crowd were screaming, "He just shot somebody!" Most people scattered but a few tried to stop and disarm Rittenhouse.

Huber rushed in, hit Rittenhouse in the head with his skateboard, and tried to control the rifle, which is when he was shot in the chest. He staggered back and fell. Grosskreutz was a few feet away with his handgun drawn and is shot next in the arm. I don't remember if Rittenhouse claims that's why he fired. Everything was moving so fast at that point, he seemed like he was just firing at anyone who was approaching him.

Grosskreutz is a paramedic, which could be why he wasn't more aggressive against Rittenhouse. His job is to save lives, which is what he was trying to do when he rushed in and what got him shot. Had he shot and killed Rittenhouse, he might be the one on trial right now had the D.A. pressed charges.

Rittenhouse, who was in illegal possession of his rifle, was also violating the curfew, as was everyone else in the area. But, while the police were trying to disperse the protesters, they were thanking the armed vigilantes and even gave them water. They also moved the protesters directly into the area where there was a heavy concentration of armed vigilantes.

One thing is clear, though. Huber and Grosskreutz are heroes. They were trying to stop what they thought was an active shooter.
 
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Count the bodies. then decide

Judges is making trial a farce

post 54, mentions Proud Boys-that should muddy the water for judge & prosecution

Seems like a lot of idiots wandering around Wisconsin ; not to worry about unemployment, there are several openings in the Criminal Justice Sy
 
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...

The judge appears to be sympathetic? The judge is biased. For crying out loud! His phone rang during proceedings, and his ringtone played "God Bless the USA", the theme song for Trump rallies.

The judge refused to allow prosecutors to refer to the dead men as victims but allowed the defense to refer to them as "looters" or "rioters".

...

The second quoted point is very concerning.

The first is a huge stretch. I've liked Lee Greenwood's "God Bless the USA" ever since he released it in the 90s. As a person who loathes Trump, I had no idea he used it at rallies, but learning it from your post changes nothing about how I feel about the song. I'm sure there are lots of Americans who used the song as a ringtone long before 2016. I'm betting that crap came from the deliberately polarizing media.
 
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...Rittenhouse was there originally to help protect his employers business from the (ahem) peaceful protesters before getting separated from his group.

That's the first I've heard of that. I thought the little angel said he went to the protest all heroic to render first aid. :rolleyes: If Rittenhouse had been an adult and accompanied his boss--the owner by request to sit inside with him to protect the business, I could see where shooting an intruder might be justifiable depending on the circumstances. Otherwise, there's no reason he should've been there armed or even unarmed at his age.
 
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The second quoted point is very concerning.

The first is a huge stretch. I've liked Lee Greenwood's "God Bless the USA" ever since he released it in the 90s. As a person who loathes Trump, I had no idea he used it at rallies, but learning it from your post changes nothing
I had retired form giving any attention to political system, until, until, until that
Fella took office.
He awaking my dormant interest in politics-the sad part is, 'That Fella' resulted in me thinking ill of my fellow citizens.
 
Had Rittenhouse simply been defending himself, as he claims, he would have dropped his weapon and possibly even rendered aid to Rosenbaum, who before that point, was his only victim. Instead, he ran away with his rifle drawn. People in the crowd were screaming, "He just shot somebody!" Most people scattered but a few tried to stop and disarm Rittenhouse.

Huber rushed in, hit Rittenhouse in the head with his skateboard, and tried to control the rifle, which is when he was shot in the chest. He staggered back and fell. Grosskreutz was a few feet away with his handgun drawn and is shot next in the arm. I don't remember if Rittenhouse claims that's why he fired. Everything was moving so fast at that point, he seemed like he was just firing at anyone who was approaching him.

Grosskreutz is a paramedic, which could be why he wasn't more aggressive against Rittenhouse. His job is to save lives, which is what he was trying to do when he rushed in and what got him shot. Had he shot and killed Rittenhouse, he might be the one on trial right now had the D.A. pressed charges.

Rittenhouse, who was in illegal possession of his rifle, was also violating the curfew, as was everyone else in the area. But, while the police were trying to disperse the protesters, they were thanking the armed vigilantes and even gave them water. They also moved the protesters directly into the area where there was a heavy concentration of armed vigilantes.

One thing is clear, though. Huber and Grosskreutz are heroes. They were trying to stop an active shooter.
Obviously, you are not clear on the definition of an "Active Shooter."
"Active shooter or active killer describes the perpetrator of a type of mass murder marked by rapidity, scale, randomness, and often suicide, usually associated with the United States. The United States Department of Homeland Security defines an active shooter as "an individual actively engaged in killing or attempting to kill people in a confined and populated area; in most cases, active shooters use firearms and there is no pattern or method to their selection of victims."

Rittenhouse did not fire his rifle until he was attacked by 3 idiots. And those 3 idiots are the only people he shot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_shooter
 
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Also failed to mention that Grosskreutz was a convicted felon carrying a gun, and that Rittenhouse was there originally to help protect his employers business from the (ahem) peaceful protesters before getting separated from his group.
He was never employed by that car business. The business didn't hire him to do anything. That was clear from testimony by the business owners. Rittenhouse had no connection whatsoever to that business. He was an interloper.
 
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He was never employed by that car business. The business didn't hire him to do anything. That was clear from testimony by the business owners. Rittenhouse had no connection whatsoever to that business. He was an interloper.

He never stated that he [worked] for them.

Two days later, Rittenhouse went to downtown Kenosha and volunteered to clean graffiti off a high school. He met the owners of a car dealership where vehicles had been burned, offered his “condolences,” and said he wanted to help. He said the owners asked his friend to protect their business, and that he joined his friend and others that night. He took his semi-automatic rifle and first-aid supplies. He gave his bulletproof vest — which he said was issued by the Grayslake Police Department — to a friend. He said he felt he wouldn’t need it “because I’m going to be helping people.”
 
The judge has opened the door to lesser charges, some sort of weapons count I guess.

Rittenhouse is an idiot and shouldn't have been there. Neither should the people doing the rioting and property burning. I don't have much sympathy for anyone involved, including the dead.
 
IMO, he is responsible for the deaths. He went to Kenosha at his own accord. He illegally armed himself with an assault style weapon, and went looking for trouble.
I hope they will find him guilty of at least manslaughter. When you knowingly go into a situation of unrest, you are just looking for trouble.
I am not confused at all, I am trying to verify your moral stance and perspective. Here[in bold,above] your are giving the Rittenhouse scumbag the same status as a police officer? Simply amazing. How about the violent traitors storming the capital on Jan. 6th? Are they "heroes" in your view?
Where criminal law falls short, sometimes civil law can bring "some" justice. I'm betting money he won't serve any time, but maybe he can spend the rest of his life making restitution to some of his victim's families.


Rosenbaum was homeless and just released from a psychiatric ward that day. He had spent 10 years in prison for sex crimes against minors. What exactly would "restitution" look like in this case?
 
It's not at all clear that Huber and Grosskreutz were heroes. Both were there because -- remember? -- they were rioters, participants in a violent uprising. Huber was a felon, druggie, domestic abuser, mental patient and all-around loser who tried to brain Rittenhouse with a skateboard. Grosskreutz was carrying an illegal Glock, which he pointed at Rittenhouse.

A pox on all their houses.
 


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