The problem with religion

Old Salt said:
I am a believer yet can't get some answers that are important to me from the Bible. It starts with creation in general (everything coming into existence in six days) and ends with the problematic (to me) story of Adam and Eve!

In the light of what science has revealed I find it hard to believe that many actually believe this. I wouldn't even mention my doubts if Genesis hadn't affected my whole view of the "inerrancy" of the Bible and to me, as a new believer, caused many inner struggles!

On one hand I was told by some Christian magazines and preachers: Believe every word. The Bible was written by God and is therefore infallible, on the other hand, my brain kept stuttering ... but ... but ...! And still does. Thank God for the New Testament! That keeps my faith going!
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Well, taken at face value, if I were required to believe, in literal terms, everything that's written in the Bible, then honestly I wouldn't even ponder the subject any longer. I'm never going to come to terms with Adam and Eve, talking snakes, conversations with burning bushes, splitting the sea's, all the animals on the Ark. It just makes no sense at all. But I think it's worth remembering that the Bible wasn't written by people who knew Jesus, or were even around when he was. I don't think it invalidates the message though.

OlderThanDirt said:
Do you really think he wouldn't let you in because he was Jewish? I grew up in an area that was literally 50% Jewish. All of my best friends were Jewish- still are, actually! There are Jewish folks in my family. I've never encountered that. Not even once. Sounds like it was due to something else- maybe weird parents?
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Well, that's what I was led to believe. It's not something I worry about, it was part of he and I being friends, and I took it at face value. By the way, he WAS the parent. :D
 
VaughanJB said:
But I think it's worth remembering that the Bible wasn't written by people who knew Jesus, or were even around when he was. I don't think it invalidates the message though.
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Then you haven't been paying attention, Vaughn. Our Xian evangelical types believe the contrary, that all the Old is speaking, prophesizing, about the New.
 

Pepper said:
Then you haven't been paying attention, Vaughn. Our Xian evangelical types believe the contrary, that all the Old is speaking, prophesizing, about the New.
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Let's just say I've given it the attention it deserves. :D

On a more serious note, I love some religious music, so that's a plus. I also enjoy watching televangelists every now and then. They're almost universally crazy, busy interpreting, and re-interpreting passages from the Bible to their political and monetary ends. Once you're aware, you can get a lot of entertainment from just listening to them in the background.
 
Anything (and everything) can be a problem. And also a source of support. Thank you.
 
Well, slightly digressing here. I had a colleague (friend) while I was working at UBC. She is Sikh and we hung around along with some other friends, colleagues. Anyways, I always thought her so open and accepting of anyone. Anyways, I met her a few years ago again and she told me she was very concerned that one of her sons was interested in a white girl. I thought I heard wrongly. But she said no, he had to marry within his own culture. Wow, you could have knocked me over with a feather!
 
It's more common -- in fact a rule (one can say) than the exception.
 
Old Salt said:
I believe this to be absolutely true: "Whatsoever you sow, that shall you reap!" Some call it Karma, as if it were something spiritual. I call it suffering the consequences of a stupid or hurtful decision. It will always catch up with you, one way or the other!
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One of the consequences is internal. I could call it regret or a troubled conscience but whatever we call it, it is very real. We diminish ourselves in our own eyes, leading to some form of self loathing or self destructive behaviours.
 
Old Salt said:
I am a believer yet can't get some answers that are important to me from the Bible. It starts with creation in general (everything coming into existence in six days) and ends with the problematic (to me) story of Adam and Eve!

In the light of what science has revealed I find it hard to believe that many actually believe this. I wouldn't even mention my doubts if Genesis hadn't affected my whole view of the "inerrancy" of the Bible and to me, as a new believer, caused many inner struggles!
Reading the bible as factual is to miss all of the theological insights that the authors were trying to convey. Genesis Ch 1 conflicts with Genesis Ch 2 because they are about different theological concepts. Ch 1 humanity's relationship to God and to all of Creation. Ch 2 talks about mankind's susceptibility to sinful thoughts and behaviour .

On one hand I was told by some Christian magazines and preachers: Believe every word. The Bible was written by God and is therefore infallible, on the other hand, my brain kept stuttering ... but ... but ...! And still does. Thank God for the New Testament! That keeps my faith going !
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The church that I attend does not preach that the Bible is the inerrant, infallible word of God although a church nominally of the same denomination in the next suburb does, to the point of believing in the young earth theory.

Search the scriptures (another word for writings) for words that speak directly to your heart. I find that some passages seem to jump off the page as if they were written just for me. During my drinking days, late one night when I was very much "in my cups" I read the entire book of Job in one sitting and was startled by the clarity of the message. When sober I could not relate to it at all.

N.B. I have been sober now for over 25 years. I call that salvation.
 
Like many responses to the Gay Pride thread, I'm fine with religion as long as it isn't "shoved in my face". And it seems to be, more and more, these days. One only needs to turn on the news.

I understand that religion is necessary for folks who need something to believe in and something to guide them. I personally don't, but religion sure helped my Baptist mother get through her final days because she was sure she was going to a better place. I was also a Baptist for many years, but for me religion raised more questions than answers.
 
seadoug said:
... my Baptist mother get through her final days because she was sure she was going to a better place.
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(Even without bringing religion into it) who is to say that your mother's feeling that she was going to a better place was incorrect?

So many things are thrown into our faces everyday, how can we ask others not do so, when ignoring and walking away is an effective alternative?

Just saying ...
 
aei said:
(Even without bringing religion into it) who is to say that your mother's feeling that she was going to a better place was incorrect?

So many things are thrown into our faces everyday, how can we ask others not do so, when ignoring and walking away is an effective alternative?

Just saying ...
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My mother was not particularly religious but she embodied "love your neighbour as yourself". Her mother was catholic, of Irish descent, and rather superstitious. I never knew her but from stories about her, I would say that even though she had been excommunicated for marrying my Methodist grandfather, she too lived out the teachings of Jesus in her daily life.

My grandmother was a trained nurse and had experience with the dying. She had the belief that when someone was dying they were met by loved ones who had died before and carried to a better place.

Me, with my scientific background considered this to be a fairytale until my own mother was dying.

Aged 93, living in a nursing home and by this time non verbal, one day she refused to eat or drink and was in a state of ecstacy, waving her arms about and vocalising like an operatic diva. Most uncharacteristic of her which is why I was summoned to her side. When I arrived she looked directly at me and said, "No more".

She refused all food from then on and slowly faded away. My daughter, also a nurse, ensured that she had the best palliative care available. All of her living relatives were able to visit her in the last week of her life and it was, as they say, "a good death".

I have often wondered why she was so happy to be embarking on her final journey. Irrational as it sounds, I think that she had a vision of loved ones no longer with us, in particular her parents and siblings and of my father. If so, that would have been a joyous vision indeed.
 
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Warrigal said:
I have often wondered why she was so happy to be embarking on her final journey.
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We can only wonder but cannot deny her happiness. We can only speculate the reason but we do not know. FWIW, I believe totally that she indeed was happy. Why doubt it?
 
aei said:
We can only wonder but cannot deny her happiness. We can only speculate the reason but we do not know. FWIW, I believe totally that she indeed was happy. Why doubt it?
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I do not doubt it. My mother and her sisters never ever mentioned death and as much as possible they avoided going to funerals. Nevertheless, she made the decision to willingly to embrace her departure from this earthly realm. She was indeed happy in those final days.
 
seadoug said:
Like many responses to the Gay Pride thread, I'm fine with religion as long as it isn't "shoved in my face". And it seems to be, more and more, these days. One only needs to turn on the news.
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That seems more an American thing to me

Here in Australia, shoving religion in your face is not an approved thing - I think most people are tolerant of the beliefs of others as long as they don't get on a soapbox about it.

Someone else mentioned no presidents being openly atheist - that is not so here. Julia Gillard ( coincidentally also our only woman prime minister) was openly atheist and our current prime minister Anthony Albanese describes himself as a ' non practising catholic'
 
January said:
That seems more an American thing to me

Here in Australia, shoving religion in your face is not an approved thing - I think most people are tolerant of the beliefs of others as long as they don't get on a soapbox about it.

Someone else mentioned no presidents being openly atheist - that is not so here. Julia Gillard ( coincidentally also our only woman prime minister) was openly atheist and our current prime minister Anthony Albanese describes himself as a ' non practising catholic'
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There have been atheist/agnostic prime ministers long before Julia Gillard.

Five* (Billy Hughes, John Curtin, Goff Whitlam, Bob Hawke and Julia Gillard) have been articulate atheists or agnostics. One (Harold Holt) was a nominal atheist or agnostic.

* Australian prime ministers
 
VaughanJB said:
A God belief does provide comfort to people though.
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It has been said that believers are cowards because they have merely managed to relieve their fear of death. Also that because choices and decisions of a believer are based on an unknown, they should never be considered valid ie their opinions should be ignored, considered possibly reckless.
 
As I see it, the "problem with religion" is there are so many of them, and every one believes they are the only true religion and every other one is false. Thru-out history, countless deaths have resulted from this belief.

Well, guess what...... either one religion is "right" and the others "wrong", or they are all wrong.

For me personally, I choose to believe in what I believe - and really don't care what others believe in, as long as they cause no harm.
 
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