The unvaccinated

ElCastor said:
Sorry, but what I wanted was a real link to a genuine medical source that offered proof that has convinced you, and would convince me, of the useless nature of Covid vaccines — something more than a bunch of names. Bottom line my wife and I have been Vax’d and Boosted several times, will continue to do so, and I would encourage others, particularly of our age, to seriously consider doing the same, particularly when endorsed by their doctors.
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The bottom line is that everyone who was vaccinated got Covid anyway. Some got it more than once & some were seriously ill. That obviously trumps any "Genuine Medical Source."
Not everyone wants to see that bottom line, however.
 

win231 said:
The bottom line is that everyone who was vaccinated got Covid anyway. Some got it more than once & some were seriously ill. That obviously trumps any "Genuine Medical Source."
Not everyone wants to see that bottom line, however.
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Hey I got it, and so did my wife, but no hospital and much like a bad cold. Lots of Kleenex, and that was pretty much it. Problem with Covid is the frequent variations, which is the reason for boosters. Another useful oral med, not a vaccine, has been developed to treat the breakthroughs, Paxlovid. Did the job for me. BTW - My only adverse reaction to the injections was a sore spot where the needle went in. Lasted a day and was really nothing. If more injections are offered, my wife and I will be the first in line.
 

ElCastor said:
Hey I got it, and so did my wife, but no hospital and much like a bad cold. Lots of Kleenex, and that was pretty much it. Problem with Covid is the frequent variations, which is the reason for boosters. Another useful oral med, not a vaccine, has been developed to treat the breakthroughs, Paxlovid. Did the job for me. BTW - My only adverse reaction to the injections was a sore spot where the needle went in. Lasted a day and was really nothing. If more injections are offered, my wife and I will be the first in line.
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Well, my Covid was also basically a chest cold - 3 days of congestion, achy & weak & 3 more days of coughing.....no vaccines. If not for the positive test, I wouldn't have known I had Covid. That's my point - many people experienced the same thing whether vaccinated or not. That indicates a vaccine that makes no difference.
All my friends were vaccinated to keep their jobs & one was vaccinated so she would be allowed to fly. They ALL became seriously ill with Covid.
That's more telling than any "Genuine Medical Source."
 
ElCastor said:
When I joined the Navy we were required to take a series of vaccinations. Refusing was not an option. Did I object to this? Not at all. In the military you do as ordered. On the other hand, if members of this forum decide to refuse vaccination that is their decision, but when they attempt to convince others to join them in that decision l feel compelled to put in my 2 cents worth, and the argument begins. Do you object?
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Well said.
 
ElCastor said:
When I joined the Navy we were required to take a series of vaccinations. Refusing was not an option. Did I object to this? Not at all. In the military you do as ordered. On the other hand, if members of this forum decide to refuse vaccination that is their decision, but when they attempt to convince others to join them in that decision l feel compelled to put in my 2 cents worth, and the argument begins. Do you object?
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ElCastor said:
Sorry, but what I wanted was a real link to a genuine medical source that offered proof that has convinced you, and would convince me, of the useless nature of Covid vaccines — something more than a bunch of names. Bottom line my wife and I have been Vax’d and Boosted several times, will continue to do so, and I would encourage others, particularly of our age, to seriously consider doing the same, particularly when endorsed by their doctors.
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"Bottom line my wife and I have been Vax’d and Boosted several times, will continue to do so, and I would encourage others, particularly of our age, to seriously consider doing the same,"

"On the other hand, if members of this forum decide to refuse vaccination that is their decision, but when they attempt to convince others to join them in that decision l feel compelled to put in my 2 cents worth"

So if someone gives their reason for not wanting to be vaccinated and never says to anyone that others should not be vaccinated, they are accused of trying to influence others? And yet you state "I would encourage others" Isn't that an "attempt to convince others to join them" ???
 
Pepper said:
How are you privy to the true reason? Or, is that what you theorize? Blood clots are normal, just had a balloon expand one out of existence this past Friday. All those conditions are "normal."
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I watched a discussion between a couple of physicians on the subject, because I'm not privy to anything. ;) But now that the gag orders on medical professionals have been lifted there are some enlightening conversations and debates happening again which is what science should be IMHO. I never would have guessed that pharmaceutical co.s would not want unvaccinated individuals in control groups because it would screw up the results they want to push and publish, again, IMHO. Remember, they never fully tested the vaccine on humans because it was rushed. It was an interesting and credible argument to me and one which I embraced because it made sense. There are no rules to what someone believes of course. Anyone is free to believe as they choose - once again.
 
@ElCastor, I do not object to tried & true vaccinations. Those are the ones that have jumped through all of the established hoops, have been tested & had no short cuts taken to get out to the market.

I do object to people being made into lab rats & many of those unwillingly. Those forced to take a shot in order to go to school or keep their job, be in private, public or military. Just because you join the military doesn't mean you give up your rights as a human being on medical issues. Please don't confuse the tried & true vacs with experimental vacs (Covid) rushed to market. We lost highly trained military personnel because of this. I support the men & women in our military 100% & their rights.

I do object to the way our children have been treated. Those at lowest-to-no-risk being forced to take shots & then having serious medical problems & even dying. Our kids have been taught to fear needlessly, they have lost in their education & social growth.

I do object to mask mandates. Unless you wore high-end PPE, the paper or cloth masks you wore will not stop the virus from getting through.

I haven't read anything here that I consider where others were trying to convince people not to take the Covid shot. I have seen people stating their opinion & things they have witnessed that haven't been good.

Like you, we have put in there 2-cents worth.
 
Lilac, needless to say, you and I are not on exactly the same wavelength. With regard to the military, or in my case an aircraft carrier, military personnel are required to serve together in close quarters. For large numbers of pilots, crew, or an army regiment to be stricken with a serious contagion in a time of war would be an unmitigated disaster.

As for the proven effectiveness of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines and boosters I could quote numerous medical sources, but we both know that would be a waste of my time and yours.
 
ElCastor said:
Sorry, but what I wanted was a real link to a genuine medical source that offered proof that has convinced you, and would convince me, of the useless nature of Covid vaccines — something more than a bunch of names. Bottom line my wife and I have been Vax’d and Boosted several times, will continue to do so, and I would encourage others, particularly of our age, to seriously consider doing the same, particularly when endorsed by their doctors.
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I'll see if I can find some. They exist, it's just that I'll have to go back through the lecture videos that talked about them to get the specific sources. But I'll do that and post them to you here later, El C.
I know the NIH published the data, and I think Nature (the science journal) did, too.

If you and the Mrs haven't had any problems with the covid vaccines, then that's great. Actually, not many seniors have reported problems, other than minor ones. Mostly it's been people aged 14 to 40 who've had serious vax-related health issues.
 
@ElCastor ... Yes, we will agree to disagree.

I am aware that troops serve in close quarters. No one wants them hit with any illness. However, giving your military any type of a vaccine that hasn't been thoroughly vetted is more of a risk. The deaths from this vaccine is coming to light since truth is coming out. The truth that the vaccine was not as effective as we were told is also coming out. This mandatory vaccine mandate was a knee-jerk reaction & is an unmitigated disaster.

Our military are the most physically fit in America. A majority are also in the age group that was not at risk. So why give an unproven vaccine to those who didn't want it? Why kick out good men & women because of this? Is this how you treat people who defend our country?

No wonder no one wants to join the military when they see others being treated like this.
 
Lilac said:
@ElCastor ... Yes, we will agree to disagree.

I am aware that troops serve in close quarters. No one wants them hit with any illness. However, giving your military any type of a vaccine that hasn't been thoroughly vetted is more of a risk. The deaths from this vaccine is coming to light since truth is coming out. The truth that the vaccine was not as effective as we were told is also coming out. This mandatory vaccine mandate was a knee-jerk reaction & is an unmitigated disaster.

Our military are the most physically fit in America. A majority are also in the age group that was not at risk. So why give an unproven vaccine to those who didn't want it? Why kick out good men & women because of this? Is this how you treat people who defend our country?

No wonder no one wants to join the military when they see others being treated like this.
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The same here in Germany. For the military (Bundeswehr) the vaccination is mandatory. A friend of mine, a former lieutenant colonel of the reserve, calles this "undermining of military strength", since a lot of soldiers get covid after the vaccination.
 
ElCastor said:
When I joined the Navy we were required to take a series of vaccinations. Refusing was not an option. Did I object to this? Not at all. In the military you do as ordered. On the other hand, if members of this forum decide to refuse vaccination that is their decision, but when they attempt to convince others to join them in that decision l feel compelled to put in my 2 cents worth, and the argument begins. Do you object?
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Those were not mRna vaccines.

Military personnel were given the mRna vaccines in 2021 and 2022.
But I don't know if they've stopped or plan to stop giving them since the latest findings were made public.
 
Murrmurr said:
If you and the Mrs haven't had any problems with the covid vaccines, then that's great. Actually, not many seniors have reported problems, other than minor ones. Mostly it's been people aged 14 to 40 who've had serious vax-related health issues.
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Granted I’ve heard of a blood clot issue, but ( correct me if I am wrong) I believe it was with the Johnson & Johnson vaccine — a vaccine that is not well regarded for several reasons. If J&J was the only vaccine I would join you in opposition. Moderna and Pfizer are the way to go. My wife is Pfizer and I‘m Moderna - both from Kaiser, as are all our boosters.

Here‘s a link putting the finger on J&J …
https://www.novanthealth.org/healthy-headlines/vaccines-and-blood-clots
 
ElCastor said:
If more injections are offered, my wife and I will be the first in line.
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Based on the published information, the clot shot so called protection only protects for 6 weeks.
Three years divided by a shot every 6 weeks would be 26 shots, and you're still waiting to get the 5th one.
So it appears that you've been missing quite a few of them. When's your next one and what are you waiting for?

@ElCastor - I'm referring to your shots, and you didn't answer my question. When are you getting the other 22 shots?
 
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Here's some info on the risks of the vaccine vs. unvaccinated people getting Covid-19:

It is important to put this risk in context. The overall risk of an unvaccinated person dying from a COVID-19 infection is much higher than the risk of clots from the Johnson & Johnson or AstraZeneca vaccines.

To date, the U.S. has recorded roughly 48,000,000 COVID cases and almost 68,000 deaths in persons 18 to 49 years old. Even if we assume actual infection numbers are much higher, the risk of dying from a COVID-19 infection is hundreds of times more than the risk of blood clots from these vaccines. Studies also show that the incidence of blood clots in people with COVID-19 infection is much higher than in the general population and much higher than the incidence with vaccines.

No evidence indicates that the Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna mRNA COVID-19 vaccines are associated with the same risk of blood clots. However, data from multiple studies show a slight risk for myocarditis and pericarditis following the mRNA COVID-19 vaccines. These cases occurred most frequently in males, ages 16 years and older, within seven days of receiving the second dose of an mRNA COVID-19 vaccine.

Myocarditis is inflammation of the heart muscle. Pericarditis is inflammation of the lining outside the heart. Most cases are mild, with symptoms resolving within a few days. However, severe cases can lead to abnormal heart rhythm, stroke, heart attack or death. As with blood clots, the incidence of severe myocarditis and pericarditis is MUCH higher in persons who are infected with COVID-19.

The COVID-19 virus can damage multiple organs, including:

• Brain
• Heart
• Lungs

This can lead to severe neurological, heart and other long-term health complications. Therefore, the benefits far outweigh the risks of receiving the COVID-19 vaccines. In fact, data consistently show that mortality rates are much lower in vaccinated and boosted individuals compared to those who have never been vaccinated or boosted.

As of the latest available data in the U.S. (October 2022), unvaccinated persons were 29 times more likely to die from COVID-19 than those who were vaccinated with an updated booster.
https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/y...-vaccines-cause-blood-clots-or-heart-problems
 
John cycling said:
Based on the published information, the clot shot so called protection only protects for 6 weeks.
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John, can you point to where that is published? I can't find anything like it.

What I have seen is that the effectiveness of the vaccine does decline with time, but not that fast. Here is a quote from a study that found some effectiveness beyond 5 months:

During the period of Omicron predominance, VE against COVID-19–associated hospitalizations was lower overall and waned with time since vaccination: VE after a second dose declined from 71% within 2 months of vaccination to 54% among those vaccinated ≥5 months earlier (p = 0.01). Among recipients of 3 doses, VE against COVID-19–associated hospitalizations declined from 91% among those vaccinated within the past 2 months to 78% among those vaccinated ≥4 months earlier (p<0.001).

Waning 2-Dose and 3-Dose Effectiveness of mRNA Vaccines Against COVID-19–Associated Emergency Department and Urgent Care Encounters and Hospitalizations Among Adults During Periods of Delta and Omicron
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7107e2.htm
 
Here's the source of a lot of misinformation about the vaccine and the virus itself...

Dr. Mercola, 67, an osteopathic physician in Cape Coral, Fla., has long been a subject of criticism and government regulatory actions for his promotion of unproven or unapproved treatments. But most recently, he has become the chief spreader of coronavirus misinformation online, according to researchers.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/24/technology/joseph-mercola-coronavirus-misinformation-online.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Mercola

There good money to be made spreading misinformation. Mercola is said to be worth over $100 million!

Here are more people getting wealthy at the expense of society...
https://www.npr.org/2021/05/13/9965...books-twitters-ability-to-curb-vaccine-hoaxes
 
John cycling said:
Based on the published information, the clot shot so called protection only protects for 6 weeks.
Three years divided by a shot every 6 weeks would be 26 shots, and you're still waiting to get the 5th one.
So it appears that you've been missing quite a few of them. When's your next one and what are you waiting for?
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Clot shot? If you are referring to J&J I don’t use it and never will. Just Pfizer and Moderna supplied by Kaiser. There may be a new booster soon, if so I will get it when available. If you are a non-Vaxer you might want to keep in mind that Covid itself can cause clots. Oh, and if you find yourself laying on your Covid death bed please be advised that its too late to ask for a Vax.
 
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