This is insanity plus

rt3 said:
insanity refers to a condition of animated things, generally human, not guns-- to imply that the gun numbers are insane implies an a priori knowledge on your part that is BS
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As is your ability to reason, apparently.

The number of guns in this country represents a condition that is tantamount to insanity on the part of those who allow & support it.

That a little more within your grasp?
 

rt3 said:
the MURDERING of people is illegal and guns don't do it only people-- and again criminals don't care.

the term deadly weapon is a value judgement on your part... I'll bet SifuPhil can do just as much damage to a person with a ball point pen in the eye as a gun.
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But could he do it to a crowd of people from a distance of say, 50 yards away from them?

Tell me one other everyday item that can spray death into a crowd of humans from such a distance that it doesn't require actually getting close enough to them to even see their faces.

I'll wait.

Guns may not jump up & kill people by themselves, but they make the killing of people easier & more efficient than anything else known to man & in doing so, fascillitate a massive increase in the number of humans killed by other humans.

That is an irrefutable fact.
 
guns are just sophisticated rock throwers, a step up from the one David used to kill (murder-state sanction execution). humans have been killing each other since time began. More people have been killed with arrows than will ever be killed with guns.

dogs spray guns shoot. there is no massive killing--- you are hysterical. we are not talking out killing done by nation states.


If one bought into your insanity, everyone would be trusting everyone so much, no need for governments, laws, or court system (Hmmmm). Back to the real world, the only trust the will occur on your so called civilized world will be at most a Nash Equilibrium.

The only irrefutable fact is that there are no irrefutable facts.
 

When I first heard the story and thought the girl faced the instructor with the weapon in hand pointing at him. But when I heard the gun jumped in automatic mode it sounds right. One of the basic behaviors of automatic weapons or rapid firing is that each successive shot is higher because the gun kicks up which means the next shot and/or gun is higher itself.

I have no problems exposing kids to guns including teaching shooting and safety BUT this girl because of age & strength issues was still in the training wheel stage of guns. I don't even think the terrorists and warlords recruit til about 12-14 issuing semi/automatic weapons in which they seem to have no problem handling.

It's a tragic accident but my guess this instructor let kids shoot rapid fire guns before without incident.
 
rt3 said:
guns are just sophisticated rock throwers, a step up from the one David used to kill (murder-state sanction execution). humans have been killing each other since time began. More people have been killed with arrows than will ever be killed with guns.

dogs spray guns shoot. there is no massive killing--- you are hysterical. we are not talking out killing done by nation states.


If one bought into your insanity, everyone would be trusting everyone so much, no need for governments, laws, or court system (Hmmmm). Back to the real world, the only trust the will occur on your so called civilized world will be at most a Nash Equilibrium.

The only irrefutable fact is that there are no irrefutable facts.
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Sophisticated rock throwers???

What a load!!!! :rofl:

How many times has a thrown rock eviscerated the inside of a person's skull???

If shooting a gun is so much like throwing a rock, why don't criminals save all that money on guns & bullets & just walk around with a bag of rocks????

:rofl:

Is this your idea of the modern day gangsta thug doing a drive by?...

ernest-t-bass-throwing-rocks-o.gif


Really, the drooler gun lover goofballs don't need to buy into anybody else's insanity.

They've got more than enough of their own.
 
sub guns do not climb as this site would imply (or others) as the recoil comes from a pistol cartridge shot in a 9lb weapon. The weapon appears to climb to the shooter because they step back and which raises the shoulders, the shooter translates this into recoil. I would be glad to have you fire any of my select fire weapons, I'll even buy the bullets, but you have to come here '
From teaching a lot of defense and competitive 3 gun shooters, (from around the world) I think she had a two hand lock on the gun with stiff left arm and as she turned to ask the instructor what the hell is going on she swing the weapon into him. The switch is on the right hand above the left thumb and could have been easily hit with thumb. However on most uzi it is very stiff, I'm guessing she was having difficulty in pushing it forward when the instructor gave her the auto command-- looked and swung the gun towards him at the same time the thumb pushed the switch forward and it fired. the uzi also has a palm safety (they have 3 manual safeties) which means she would have had to have a very tight grip on the right hand for this sequence to have happened.
 
I think David did put a hole in Golith's head.

It doesn't mean criminals aren't going to use the latest technologies, after all they don't follow the law, something you keep overlooking in your cranialrectalmetamorphism.
 
I have no issues with teaching children the proper way to use guns and rifles. In this case I don't think the girl should have be allowed to shoot that type of a weapon, it was poor judgment on the part of both her parents and the instructor. The burgers and bullets thing seems a bit whack to me though, how about a normal shooting range with qualified instructors in your area.

From what I understand, this was the pistol version of the UZI, which would be harder to brace and control for anyone, compared to the rifle version, especially for a young girl that had no previous training. I think the instructor should have been behind her also, just in case something went wrong, not next to her.

It's too bad the little girl will have to live with this hanging over her head for the rest of her life, for that she can thank her parents. You don't have to be a genius to see that allowing your little girl to shoot an UZI like that, is not a smart idea. Maybe a 22 rifle would have been a wiser choice.

All the years of responsible owners and users not having a negative gun-related incident in their lifetimes, does not make headlines. You don't hear of all those families over the years who grew up with guns in their homes, learned to use them, clean them and respect them. When people save their own lives because a criminal was about to rape and kill them, but they used their gun for protection, that does not make the headlines.

That doesn't mean that there isn't a large segment of people in America who own and use guns in a responsible way. The headlines are made when gangs and criminals shoot each other, or innocent victims, and they will always get their weapons illegally off the streets regardless of how strict gun laws get. And it is true that crime does go down in areas which allow concealed carry, and have relaxed gun laws.

 
When my children were young, we lived out in the country, and there were predators around, from small hawks (which would easily kill a chicken or a rabbit), all the way up to the bear and cougar that roamed the area.
I taught my oldest son to shoot my rifle, which was only a single-shot .22; and the younger two kids were there and watched.
When you live out in the country, there are times when you need a weapon to protect either yourself, or your livestock.
I think that people should learn to handle a firearm, and that they should be carefully and properly trained; so that they know the dangers of a gun as well as how to use one.

I can't see any reason why a young child like this would be being taught to shoot with a weapon like she was shooting; and it was probably a very poor decision on the part of the instructor, as well as her parents, to allow this.
 
Ina said:
The parents should have a legal obligation to get that poor child counselling. She is going to need it. :tapfoot:
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Yeah, I meant to mention that earlier.

Poor kid. Growing up not only with the knowledge that she killed somebody, but the image of him lying there on the ground by her feet with part of his skull blown away & blood & brains gushing out will likely be in her nightmares for decades.

Her parents need to have their heads knocked together a few times good & hard.
 
all uzi are pistols with collapsible stocks, this one looks like it was removed. several legal questions will come up, making it a pistol from the carbine is illegal , (removal of stock or shortening the barrel) and whether this guy had a legal tax stamp for the select fire version ---- just sayin
 
rt3 said:
sub guns do not climb as this site would imply (or others) as the recoil comes from a pistol cartridge shot in a 9lb weapon. The weapon appears to climb to the shooter because they step back and which raises the shoulders, the shooter translates this into recoil. I would be glad to have you fire any of my select fire weapons, I'll even buy the bullets, but you have to come here '
From teaching a lot of defense and competitive 3 gun shooters, (from around the world) I think she had a two hand lock on the gun with stiff left arm and as she turned to ask the instructor what the hell is going on she swing the weapon into him. The switch is on the right hand above the left thumb and could have been easily hit with thumb. However on most uzi it is very stiff, I'm guessing she was having difficulty in pushing it forward when the instructor gave her the auto command-- looked and swung the gun towards him at the same time the thumb pushed the switch forward and it fired. the uzi also has a palm safety (they have 3 manual safeties) which means she would have had to have a very tight grip on the right hand for this sequence to have happened.
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Watch the video. She was a little girl unable to control what she had in her hands. It should never have been in her hands.
 
rt3 said:
sub guns do not climb as this site would imply (or others) as the recoil comes from a pistol cartridge shot in a 9lb weapon. The weapon appears to climb to the shooter because they step back and which raises the shoulders, the shooter translates this into recoil. I would be glad to have you fire any of my select fire weapons, I'll even buy the bullets, but you have to come here '
From teaching a lot of defense and competitive 3 gun shooters, (from around the world) I think she had a two hand lock on the gun with stiff left arm and as she turned to ask the instructor what the hell is going on she swing the weapon into him. The switch is on the right hand above the left thumb and could have been easily hit with thumb. However on most uzi it is very stiff, I'm guessing she was having difficulty in pushing it forward when the instructor gave her the auto command-- looked and swung the gun towards him at the same time the thumb pushed the switch forward and it fired. the uzi also has a palm safety (they have 3 manual safeties) which means she would have had to have a very tight grip on the right hand for this sequence to have happened.
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I see what you mean but the basic tendency, behavior or response of a human firing a semi auto/automatic weapon will make it rise. Opposite and equal reaction(force/effort trying to hold it down looses out to momentum which would carry it up) -her arm swung across her body and up. Her tight grip on the weapon would do that because that in a sense attaches her body to the weapon, doesn't control it but will probably follow it. With training yes you can control or get rid of those tendencies.

I don't how much pre range training or briefing customers get on a rented weapon, especially if they ask but I got nervous the second he told her to adjust her stance. She seems pretty tall or had a lengthy body, long limbs don't have the power someone with shorter limbs would naturally have. Maybe the instructor should be a little more to the rear of a shooter. Also with an automatic weapon maybe firing some blanks or one of those realistic simulators that act like a real gun would help. The military doesn't even progress that fast.
 
don't think there was money involved, something between the relationship of the parents and the instructor. This was a demonstration not a lesson. (regrettably )

notice the weapon torques up to the left, the recoil in an uzi is about 10 ft/lbs. versa say light caliber hunting rifle of the same weight at about 45 ft/lbs. the reciprocating mass of the heavy bolt does the conservation of mass and energy, actually resists the upward movement in that it would be much more if the bolt were not absorbing it. The climbing reported over and over, (this wives tale is really old and dates back to Thompson, and the prohibition) is due to the gangsters shooting and holding the gun at hip level. As was noted earlier she is shooting it in a pistol configuration possibly, and the instructor has placed her in what is called a modified Weaver stance. This stance in a trained shooter even small framed and young can control handgun recoil in the 70 ft/lb range, (44 mag. 454 Casuall). (obviously she wasn't a trained shooter, but then that's why we are writing on this post).
 
I'm a firm believer in teaching young people how to shoot and handle guns, but a 9 year old should be shooting 22s and not auto loaders either. A single shot, bolt action, or pump where each round has to be manually loaded is appropriate. Very few adult gun owners have ever shot an automatic weapon. I haven't. I do have a "Tommy Gun" but it is a semi-auto version.
 
Wish I had a photo of me with my pearl handled cap guns slung on my hips during my cowboy days...
 
I had a Davey Crockett repeating cap rifle.
I had to buy it myself out of my holiday spending money.
I had to buy my own rolls of caps too.

I think I was about 10 years old. Perhaps 9?
The appropriate gun for a kid in grade school.
 
My, my, you were really into it. Did you have a coonskin hat?
 

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