What went wrong?

officerripley said:
Oh, it existed all right, all over. As someone said above, you were very lucky in your situation. And as you said above, maybe it was because of the European background in your family; that could well be. I've read a lot of history and it seems like the happy background situation you experienced has never been really prevalent in the U.S.; a lot of the letters, diaries & journals from the beginning of this country seem to feature a (maybe American) preoccupation with money, money, money.

So that kind of sit-com, 50s-early 60s, everybody being happy with mom staying home with the kids was a 20-some-year aberration. Up 'till about the time the Indus. Revol. was really taking a hold in the U.S., women of course didn't work outside the home but they were mostly farm women who reeeealy worked their butts off (still do the few who still exist) or else rich women. And what I and many others have experienced of what happened to women who because of money had to work outside the home (and therefore added everything they were doing before, all the housework, in addition to now working outside the home), I don't think very many women at all did it just because of women's lib. They may have said that to make themselves (or their husbands, gotta remember that male ego) feel better about the fact that he didn't make enough $$ for her to stay home.

So the that time period of the happy, stay-at-home mom was such a small amount of time--ask any historian; they laugh their butts off at a measly 20-year time frame for anything--that I don't think it should ever be counted on as coming back again. I think that probably the worst thing you could do to a daughter is get her hopes up for that kind of life when she most likely would never get it; maybe sad (to some) but true.
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I've always been aware of certain differences between us here in Canada vs those in the USofA, and your post confirms one more I can add to my list.
 

StarSong said:
My husband changed plenty of diapers and he never minded a bit. After all, they were his children, too.
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I have yet to change wunna those things with pins or tape or poop and tiny wiggly legs

....just worked
day and night

'Equal'?
Don't know or care what equal is, or was

My lady and I have yet to out work each other, but we keep tryin'

Share the load, in any way you can (just not the diaper load)

Guess I'm ol' fashioned that way


meathanderal jpeg.jpg
 

Aunt Marg said:
Pure sissification.

Back in the day, I never once heard of a single story related to a working man complaining about his wife being a stay-at-home mom/fulltime homemaker. Men were thrilled and quite satisfied with the arrangement.

Fast-forward a few decades, somewhere along the way, wives/mothers/homemakers took on a whine and b*tc# about their husbands not doing enough. Seemed it was no longer good enough for the man to bring home the bacon and the wife to fry it up in a pan, thus change was born, literally.

Women wanted their husbands to "pull the load"... so many hours spent in the kitchen, so many hours a week taking care of the kids, so many hours a week cleaning the house.

Something had to give, and this is the give that we're witnessing and seeing today.

Personally (please read... personally, as in my opinion), all of the women's-lib/feminist movement/equality, that's being spun and woven today has done our world and society no favours.

Men should have been left alone to be men, and women should of got off their lazy a$$es and pulled the load on their end, without complaining and always needing their hands held.
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So are you suggesting a woman's place is in the home doing boring housework, cooking, etc. instead of being able to follow her passions either as a business owner or in a career? Many men who "brought home the bacon" felt they could behave in any manner they chose and their wives were supposed to take it. And the women did take it because they had no money except the allowance their husband's provided. So yes, they stayed in their (sometimes unhappy) marriages.

Over 1500 years ago, the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) advised men to help their wives around the house and be involved with the raising of their children although most of the men were the breadwinners back then therefore considered the heads of the households. We know that women work(ed) as hard in the home (especially if there are many children) as some men work(ed) on their jobs. Back then I'm sure it was much harder for women than it is now. BTW...my husband and many men would agree with your comment I'm sure. But my husband soon found out...I'm not the one (to be tied down to "traditional" female roles like that).

As for the OP: That man is considered a "metro-sexual" I believe. The term actually has nothing to do with his sexuality but his style. Hell men back in the day not only wore frilly shirts, they wore these elaborate wigs with waves and curls. LOL :D
 
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OneEyedDiva said:
So are you suggesting a woman's place is in the home doing boring housework, cooking, etc. instead of being able to follow her passions either as a business owner or in a career? Many men who "brought home the bacon" felt they could behave in any manner they chose and their wives were supposed to take it. And the women did take it because they had no money except the allowance their husband's provided. So yes, they stayed in their (unhappy) marriages.

Over 1500 years ago, the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) advised men to help their wives around the house and be involved with the raising of their children although most of the men were the breadwinners back then and were considered the heads of the households. We know that women work(ed) as hard in the home (especially if there are many children) as some men work(ed) on their jobs. Back then I'm sure it was much harder for women than it is now. BTW...my husband and many men would agree with your comment I'm sure. But my husband soon found out...I'm not the one (to be tied down to "traditional" female roles like that).

As for the OP: That man is considered a "metro-sexual" I believe. The term actually has nothing to do with his sexuality but his style. Hell men back in the day not only wore frilly shirts, they wore these elaborate wigs with waves and curls. LOL :D
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Indeed, and many of them fought duels while wearing tight breeches and shoes with sizeable heels. 😁
 
A friend of mine, a skilled seamstress, once made me a British morning suit, complete with top hat. I felt very elegant, with my heels and my long hair in an intricate knot. Made quite a stir at the formal function my plus one and I attended. I felt deliciously feminine, and rather outre. Sigh, this ipad does not speak proper French. Misses the accents on most of the words. I love male cutaway tuxedo fashion.
 
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Aunt Marg said:
Pure sissification.

Back in the day, I never once heard of a single story related to a working man complaining about his wife being a stay-at-home mom/fulltime homemaker. Men were thrilled and quite satisfied with the arrangement.

Fast-forward a few decades, somewhere along the way, wives/mothers/homemakers took on a whine and b*tc# about their husbands not doing enough. Seemed it was no longer good enough for the man to bring home the bacon and the wife to fry it up in a pan, thus change was born, literally.

Women wanted their husbands to "pull the load"... so many hours spent in the kitchen, so many hours a week taking care of the kids, so many hours a week cleaning the house.

Something had to give, and this is the give that we're witnessing and seeing today.

Personally (please read... personally, as in my opinion), all of the women's-lib/feminist movement/equality, that's being spun and woven today has done our world and society no favours.

Men should have been left alone to be men, and women should of got off their lazy a$$es and pulled the load on their end, without complaining and always needing their hands held.
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I think it all starts with the fact that men are raised by women. A woman attends to their every need, making sure they are fed, clothed and have all they need. When men grow up, they expect a woman to carry on where their mothers left off, but with free sex thrown in.
 
Shalimar said:
Sadly, I believe that such abhorrence truly existed in relation to women. Nothing they could have done would ever have been sufficient to men of that ilk, who viewed women as possessions not people.
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Sadly such women were often discarded when the children were raised and they had grown dowdy without an income of their own to buy new dresses or fashionable shoes, and to visit the hairdresser. The husband, now more successful in his career, took a younger, more comely wife.

The wife who had expended her youth raising his children and tending his house was left with very little. Her options? To clean other people's houses and take in their laundry. No wonder the daughters of such women decided to get an education and some vocational qualifications.
 
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Rosemarie said:
I think it all starts with the fact that men are raised by women. A woman attends to their every need, making sure they are fed, clothed and have all they need. When men grow up, they expect a woman to carry on where their mothers left off, but with free sex thrown in.
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Your free sex is debatable, although I do take your point. As for the rest of your post, that certainly is valid, it also made me understand why domesticity is no big deal. Being raised in a single family along with three siblings, following mother's early death, we quickly learned that if we wanted a clean and tidy home we had to do something about it. Father had to work, when he lost his wife his motivation went too, so after work the domestic chores must have seemed like a mountain. However, his four children learned how to take the washing to the launderette, in the days before we could afford a washing machine, that was my task. My sisters aired and ironed the clean laundry and younger brother was tasked with storing the freshly ironed sheets in the airing cupboard. He was so small he had to stand on a stool.
At weekends we all chipped in to vacuum, dust and polish our home. We all did that, week in and week out. It became second nature.
 
Rosemarie said:
I think it all starts with the fact that men are raised by women. A woman attends to their every need, making sure they are fed, clothed and have all they need. When men grow up, they expect a woman to carry on where their mothers left off, but with free sex thrown in.
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I think that's what went wrong for me
Mom and my brother were tight
Me? I identified with Dad

aaaand....I left home too early
I left then he did
Leaving my fat little brother with Mom

Still looking for that free sex
(sex is costly....they want yer soul)
 
Shalimar said:
A friend of mine, a skilled seamstress, once made me a British morning suit, complete with top hat. I felt very elegant, with my heels and my long hair in an intricate knot. Made quite a stir at the formal function my plus one and I attended. I felt deliciously feminine, and rather outre. Sigh, this ipad does not speak proper French. Misses the accents on most of the words. I love male cutaway tuxedo fashion.
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Do you have any pictures of that Shalimar? Don't feel bad...my smart phone does fine with speech to text but it seems my tablet is not as smart as my phone. I hate using the text to speech on the tablet because it gets half the words wrong! Very annoying. Both devices are Samsung too.
 
Rosemarie said:
I think it all starts with the fact that men are raised by women. A woman attends to their every need, making sure they are fed, clothed and have all they need. When men grow up, they expect a woman to carry on where their mothers left off, but with free sex thrown in.
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Boy, did you nail it dead on, Rosemarie!

I've met more than a few in my day, and we even have a few in the family.
 
Gary O' said:
I have yet to change wunna those things with pins or tape or poop and tiny wiggly legs

....just worked
day and night

'Equal'?
Don't know or care what equal is, or was

My lady and I have yet to out work each other, but we keep tryin'

Share the load, in any way you can (just not the diaper load)

Guess I'm ol' fashioned that way


View attachment 149338
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Let’s hope when your time comes and your adult diapers need changing that whoever’s around won’t be too “old fashioned” to do it.
 
Dana said:
:eek: well, some of these posts belong in the Museum of Humanity!
The question asked is "What went wrong?". Nothing, went wrong, people have evolved that's all and it's a great thing.

To be a "man" does not mean keeper of the keys. It means being in touch with and accepting your strengths and weaknesses. It's all right for a man to cry, to respect women and their needs, to have a vested interest in bringing up the children.

By the same token, it is all right for a woman to be soft and feminine and also strong to make her own decisions, to be able to rely on her own resources, be equal to a man. In fact a marriage in my opinion where equality, respect and room for growth is not present - is no marriage.

No one has to be a boss man or boss lady - it's all about partnership and love 👩‍❤️‍👨
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Beautifully said.
 
OneEyedDiva said:
So are you suggesting a woman's place is in the home doing boring housework, cooking, etc. instead of being able to follow her passions either as a business owner or in a career? Many men who "brought home the bacon" felt they could behave in any manner they chose and their wives were supposed to take it. And the women did take it because they had no money except the allowance their husband's provided. So yes, they stayed in their (sometimes unhappy) marriages.

Over 1500 years ago, the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) advised men to help their wives around the house and be involved with the raising of their children although most of the men were the breadwinners back then therefore considered the heads of the households. We know that women work(ed) as hard in the home (especially if there are many children) as some men work(ed) on their jobs. Back then I'm sure it was much harder for women than it is now. BTW...my husband and many men would agree with your comment I'm sure. But my husband soon found out...I'm not the one (to be tied down to "traditional" female roles like that).

As for the OP: That man is considered a "metro-sexual" I believe. The term actually has nothing to do with his sexuality but his style. Hell men back in the day not only wore frilly shirts, they wore these elaborate wigs with waves and curls. LOL :D
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My OP does not reflect such.
 
officerripley said:
So the that time period of the happy, stay-at-home mom was such a small amount of time--ask any historian; they laugh their butts off at a measly 20-year time frame for anything--that I don't think it should ever be counted on as coming back again. I think that probably the worst thing you could do to a daughter is get her hopes up for that kind of life when she most likely would never get it; maybe sad (to some) but true.
Click to expand...
For economic reasons my mother remained trapped in a terrible marriage. The irony was that she waitressed to put my father through college so he could earn a great living. She didn't focus on a career or college education because they were "a team." (Some team... my father was Don Draper personified.) An all too familiar 20th century story.

She ensured that all of her daughters took typing classes ("something to fall back on"), got ourselves educated and onto good career paths so we could support ourselves. Most of us were fortunate enough to be able to stay home with our children during their very early years, but by the time they were in school we were more than ready to rejoin the working force.

My children were raised to want rewarding relationships and careers, and that their spouses (if they chose to marry) should be likewise fulfilled. Happy to say they're all following that pathway.

As for the offensive term, "sissification," I'll take a man with a soft, gentle, empathetic temperament over John Wayne any day of the week.
 

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