What's With All This Sexual Harassment Stuff Going On?

[BobF]

I'm not sure why you feel the need to call me out for my comment but here is a little more information for you. If you have another opinion or point of view on the topic that is fine.

There are three sides to every story and it is not unheard of for a person to claim that they have been groped or molested to make trouble for another person. I do not feel comfortable with taking the word of one person, with no other evidence, to fire a person or ruin their career. If multiple people come forward with the same claims and those claims can be investigated then I feel that some punitive action should be taken against the person. I guess I still believe in the tired old phrase innocent until proven guilty.

Thank you Aunt Bea. Nice to hear that at least one other than me can see the situation similar to mine.

What is being charged is most serious but no real solution can be found with out the proper authorities helping to find the truth.

I enjoyed reading your post.

 

[Sunny]

If a man can't keep his hands to himself however she is dressed or undressed, he should not be allowed out of the house without a caretaker.

Amen, Radish!

Bob, here's one problem with your readiness to blame the actions of out-of-control men on their victims. Who is to say what is going to turn anyone on? Maybe for one guy it's women wearing conservative pants suits, sort of like the ones Hilary Clinton prefers? For another jerk, he was turned on early in life by pictures of Marilyn Monroe in a polka dotted dress; therefore, any woman wearing a garment with polka dots is fair game.

One way to be safe is to require all women in the workplace to wear old-fashioned nuns' habits, but then, there was Sister Philomena back in parochial school....

 

[Camper6]

I was just reading on the CBC network (Canada). The Russians think the latest on sexual harassment in the U.S. is a joke. They have a talk show and they make fun of it.

Even the women think it's a joke.

I'll try to get a link.

 

[RadishRose]

But she's in trouble if a guy has a foot fetish. Her fault; the burka should have been longer.

If pretty eyes are the fetish, her fault; she should have stayed in the house or worn a blindfold and used a guide dog.

 

[Camper6]

I was just reading on the CBC network (Canada). The Russians think the latest on sexual harassment in the U.S. is a joke. They have a talk show and they make fun of it.

Even the women think it's a joke.

I'll try to get a link.

Dmitry Kiselyov, the Kremlin-friendly host of a highly watched Sunday night talk show in Russia, recently suggested the parade of Western women coming forward with allegations against famous men represents 'an explosive mix of political correctness' and 'hypocrisy.' (Sergei Karpukhin/Reuters)

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/russia-sexual-harassment-1.4418275

 

[IKE]

https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.simple-dress.com%2Fmedia%2Fcatalog%2Fproduct%2Fcache%2F1%2Fimage%2F9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95%2FS%2FD%2FSDCGC-0023.jpg&f=1[/IMG]

 

[Smiling Jane]

Any my question is that what exactly kind of proof would a person have that she/he had been groped? Or grabbed, or sexually threatened? Or even raped if the abuser uses a condom and or says the whole thing was consensual and the woman just has morning-after remorse? It's not like these acts are committed out in public. Or should a woman have to incur physical serious injuries to prove she has been mistreated?

In the case of Weinstein, for instance, 60 (SIXTY) women have come forward. That's enough for me to be pretty damned sure something has gone on, whether each individual woman has incontrovertible proof or not.

The Weinstein reveal started with a few women no one believed, among them Ashley Judd and Rose McGowan. His behavior continued for decades after he was first reported; for a very long time he had been paying out cash settlements to get rid of his accusers.

I worked in an office where the women employees were expected to service the men, and they didn't last through their probation period if they refused. It was all part of the corporate culture of aging frat boys. The manager serially slept with his secretaries, making sure his wife found out when he wanted a new secretary to bed. The salesmen and sales managers all did the same thing. The manager, his male employee/friends and the women employees they were having sex with at the time frequently got drunk and had parties in the office during working hours. I was lucky enough to be exempt because I was married at the time, and because the man I worked for was respectful toward women and wasn't part of the culture. He didn't golf with them or drink with them or have sex with the women at work, so they pretty much ignored him. We were more productive than the other departments, so we were allowed to quietly occupy our little corner without being part of what went on around us. That job taught me a lot, mostly about what I would never do. I became adept at spotting frat boy culture in workplaces so I could avoid taking those jobs.

HR was located in a different city, several states away. We never met anyone from that department nor was there any direct communication. The only corporate interface we ever had went through our manager, who was the piggy kind of man I always went out of my way to avoid. When people came to visit from corporate headquarters, we never met them. They played golf with the men from our office, and they were wined and dined away from us. Most of the time they never made an appearance in our office.

It was a long and ongoing pattern, and I'm not sure how any woman who felt harassed would have found a way to make a report.

 

[JaniceM]

https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.simple-dress.com%2Fmedia%2Fcatalog%2Fproduct%2Fcache%2F1%2Fimage%2F9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95%2FS%2FD%2FSDCGC-0023.jpg&f=1[/IMG]



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A couple of years ago I had a neighbor who said he had a foot fetish- used to leave me creepy notes and make creepy comments. And he thought an 'appropriate' approach to women he'd never met before was "Didn't I see you in a porn movie last night?" iccck!!

 

[Smiling Jane]

Photo of woman making sure she isn't responsible for causing men to have impure thoughts.

 

[rgp]

When the male members of our species cease to admire the female members of our species , our species will cease to exist.

 

[RadishRose]

The issue is not admiration, nor appreciation, or thoughts.

 

[Smiling Jane]

I admire the heck out of some people. That doesn't mean I think I have to grope them, fondle them or talk dirty to them.

 

[BobF]

Amen, Radish!

Bob, here's one problem with your readiness to blame the actions of out-of-control men on their victims. Who is to say what is going to turn anyone on? Maybe for one guy it's women wearing conservative pants suits, sort of like the ones Hilary Clinton prefers? For another jerk, he was turned on early in life by pictures of Marilyn Monroe in a polka dotted dress; therefore, any woman wearing a garment with polka dots is fair game.

One way to be safe is to require all women in the workplace to wear old-fashioned nuns' habits, but then, there was Sister Philomena back in parochial school....

You certainly do not read my posts at all. Or you would not be posting this nonsense above.

I am not saying that any one claiming to be sexually physically or mentally harassed.

I am saying that spreading lies is wrong and not necessary at all. Read my recent posts in #62, 72, 75. I am saying the injured needs to open up, talk to police, get help from those that know how strong truth is and just how dangerous it is for spreading lies about others. None of my posts have ever blamed the victims not have I reduced the responsibility to put the guilty ones into controlling hands.

Far too much effort going into false and unproven accusations. Spreading unproven things to be facts is nothing but lies repeated again and again.

 

[Butterfly]

I'm not sure why you feel the need to call me out for my comment but here is a little more information for you. If you have another opinion or point of view on the topic that is fine.

There are three sides to every story and it is not unheard of for a person to claim that they have been groped or molested to make trouble for another person. I do not feel comfortable with taking the word of one person, with no other evidence, to fire a person or ruin their career. If multiple people come forward with the same claims and those claims can be investigated then I feel that some punitive action should be taken against the person. I guess I still believe in the tired old phrase innocent until proven guilty.

I didn't mean to call you out, Aunt Bea. I must have posted the post as a reply to the wrong post. I meant to take issue with Bob F's apparent idea that women should not speak unless they had incontrovertible proof. I am sorry I screwed this up.

 

[rgp]

The issue is not admiration, nor appreciation, or thoughts.

Well...it is actually. The down side is some just go about it poorly. But it still starts with the attraction . If a man makes / made an unwanted approach, making an issue out of it years later, IMO diminishes the seriousness of an actual offence @ the time....of the offence.

Instead of sensationalizing these he "offended me" "he disrespected me" 10 years ago, etc. Let's support those actually assaulted when it happens, no matter how influential the offender may be.

 

[Butterfly]

You certainly do not read my posts at all. Or you would not be posting this nonsense above.

I am not saying that any one claiming to be sexually physically or mentally harassed.

I am saying that spreading lies is wrong and not necessary at all. Read my recent posts in #62, 72, 75. I am saying the injured needs to open up, talk to police, get help from those that know how strong truth is and just how dangerous it is for spreading lies about others. None of my posts have ever blamed the victims not have I reduced the responsibility to put the guilty ones into controlling hands.

Far too much effort going into false and unproven accusations. Spreading unproven things to be facts is nothing but lies repeated again and again.

The problem, Bob, is that you assume the accusers are spreading "lies." The very great majority of the accusers have absolutely no reason to lie especially at this late date -- the statutes of limitation have long since run on their claims for either criminal or civil action, and once they have gone public they are certainly not able to blackmail the accused.

And I would point out that "unproven things" are not necessarily lies, as you seem to believe.

 

[Camper6]

Hey Bob, you trying to start a fight here?

Just in case you're serious, no this behavior is not provoked by the way women dress. I very much doubt that all the thousands of women reporting being touched (or worse) inappropriately were really dressed like hookers
at work.

And even if they were, what's wrong with the men exercising a bit of self-control? Are they human beings, or horny apes?

You are missing the point. Can you tell me what is the point of dressing that way if they are not trying to attract attention?

 

[Warrigal]

This topic is on the continuum that leads at one end leads to physical violence against women right up to domestic murder of women.
The President of France has apologised for France's shame of one woman being killed every three days. I think the rate in Australia is just about one per day, and we have a much smaller population than France.

Awareness campaigns in Australia send out the message that disrespect for women and girls begins in boyhood and is facilitated by women who tell their daughters that that is just how boys are, and that they don't really mean it. The underlying message is that disrespect doesn't always lead to violence but all violence against women begins with disrespect.

I am very thankful that my father in law made sure his sons always showed respect for women. If the men who are currently facing complaints of past sexual harassment or sexual abuse really had any respect for women they would not be in so much hot water today.

 

[rgp]

[/B]
The problem, Bob, is that you assume the accusers are spreading "lies." The very great majority of the accusers have absolutely no reason to lie especially at this late date -- the statutes of limitation have long since run on their claims for either criminal or civil action, and once they have gone public they are certainly not able to blackmail the accused.

And I would point out that "unproven things" are not necessarily lies, as you seem to believe.

Lie or not..."unproven" means no proof / evidence. And in our judicial system , be it criminal or civil , both are required to some degree to come to prosecution , and result in a finding of guilt or innocence. And again all these "claims" that have no substance , result in the next one going largely ignored. And [that] may be the one that [has] substance / merit.

I read in one of the other posts about what the Russians think.....sadly i tend to agree with them.

 

[Camper6]

If a man can't keep his hands to himself however she is dressed or undressed, he should not be allowed out of the house without a caretaker.

A man should be able and IS able to control himself. No more of this "boys will be boys" crap.

You haven't a clue because you are not a male. And I don't have a clue because I am not a woman.

However, it's the way nature intended or the human race would have died out years ago.

That's why harems had eunuchs.

 

[rgp]

You are missing the point. Can you tell me what is the point of dressing that way if they are not trying to attract attention?

Exactly! And the attention they attract may not be from those they [want] to attract......If say Clooney notices / responds...great!....but if it's the ugly fat guy....not so great, and suddenly they [the women] are offended.

 

[Warrigal]

This woman while young was not above enjoying the form of a well proportioned male. I made sure my appreciative gaze (called perving over here) went unnoticed and I kept my hands to myself. A sinewy forearm or a firm jawline was sufficient to capture my attention.

I imagine every man has similar reactions to a well formed female and modest clothing cannot turn off all interest. All that is being asked is that men refrain from unwanted touching. Leering is not acceptable either and embarrassing comments and catcalls are a big No No. These guidelines underpin respectful relationships between the sexes at work and at social events. Is it too much to ask of men?

 

[rgp]

This woman while young was not above enjoying the form of a well proportioned male. I made sure my appreciative gaze (called perving over here) went unnoticed and I kept my hands to myself. A sinewy forearm or a firm jawline was sufficient to capture my attention.

I imagine every man has similar reactions to a well formed female and modest clothing cannot turn off all interest. All that is being asked is that men refrain from unwanted touching. Leering is not acceptable either and embarrassing comments and catcalls are a big No No. These guidelines underpin respectful relationships between the sexes at work and at social events. Is it too much to ask of men?

A woman cannot dictate how a man will react...and women in general have no right to lay down the rules. "Unwanted touching" is indeed assault AT THE TIME of the assault....not ten years later. "leering" and "commenting" in what ever manner is nothing more than perhaps boorish behavior not criminal....or against any rules.

 

[tnthomas]

Exactly! And the attention they attract may not be from those they [want] to attract......If say Clooney notices / responds...great!....but if it's the ugly fat guy....not so great, and suddenly they [the women] are offended.

What ugly & fat guy???

Oh yea,

Harvey Weinstein




...the dude has to sneak up on a glass of water!

 

[AZ Jim]

BobF represents a view that unfortunately has come to reflect all men's opinions and nothing could be further from the truth. It is a view that I hope is in it's death throes. I have more I want to say but I also do not want the ban hammer so I'll leave it at that.