Where do we deport Sharia infused immigrants?

QuickSilver said:
Can you please explain HOW? Where do you get the idea that their religious laws will prevail over our law? If they break our laws they are arrested. I don't know why you are so fearful of this..
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I have NO FEAR------------I can envisage however a situation where a Muslim that follows Sharia Law commits a offense that is punishable by our legal system and try to use his religious beliefs as a defense (AND WINS) This has already been the case in some places. Stonning an adultress---how barbaric.
 

Lon said:
I have NO FEAR------------I can envisage however a situation where a Muslim that follows Sharia Law commits a offense that is punishable by our legal system and try to use his religious beliefs as a defense (AND WINS) This has already been the case in some places. Stonning an adultress---how barbaric.
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Where and when did this happen Lon?
 

I agree - anyone should be able to speak any language they want as long as they can find someone to talk to. However, the language of governmental agencies and offices should be English.
 
Ray said:
I agree - anyone should be able to speak any language they want as long as they can find someone to talk to. However, the language of governmental agencies and offices should be English.
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I suspect that, as is the case in Canada, should America at some point have a sufficiently large enough population which speaks something other than English as a native language, accommodation will be made.
 
Ruthanne said:
Lon said:
I have NO FEAR------------I can envisage however a situation where a Muslim that follows Sharia Law commits a offense that is punishable by our legal system and try to use his religious beliefs as a defense (AND WINS) This has already been the case in some places. Stonning an adultress---how barbaric.
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Where and when did this happen Lon?
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This is Lon's perception of the direction that the nation's legal environment is heading.

First it was the Twinkie defense, where a homophobic criminal defendant argues he suffered diminished capacity as a result of his consumption of Twinkies.

Later on, someone wins $2.7 million in punitive damages for spilling hot coffee in their lap.

So, with soulless, opportunistic lawyers willing frivolous lawsuits, and depraved liberal judges hearing such criminal and civil cases, it just follows that at some point some Muslim will prevail in the type of case that Lon describes.
 
Lon said:
I have NO FEAR------------I can envisage however a situation where a Muslim that follows Sharia Law commits a offense that is punishable by our legal system and try to use his religious beliefs as a defense (AND WINS) This has already been the case in some places. Stonning an adultress---how barbaric.
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While it's always good to be aware of our surroundings, worrying about all the what "ifs" in life can make us a little crazy, don't you think? They still must conform to our laws here as far as I am aware.
 
Ray said:
I agree - anyone should be able to speak any language they want as long as they can find someone to talk to. However, the language of governmental agencies and offices should be English.
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Fully agree with this position and would want to add that government agencies, offices, hospitals etc make provision for interpreter services where necessary because the newest arrivals may need some help. I notice in my doctor's surgery a sign on the wall advertising a phone number that will allow over the phone interpretation when needed.
 
Norway,Sweden, Denmark, Germany have had no end of problems with Muslim immigrants. Can we learn something from this? The U.S. has enough problems as it is.
 
Ray said:
I agree - anyone should be able to speak any language they want as long as they can find someone to talk to. However, the language of governmental agencies and offices should be English.
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California conducts business with the Public in several languages, and pays employees a bilingual pay differential for their translation services in given in Spanish, Chinese (Mandarin) and Tagalog (Filipino).
 
QuickSilver said:
Chicago is diverse.. and is a "city of neighborhoods"... We have a specific neighborhood for nearly every nationality and ethnic group. It's human nature to want to be with people and a culture that is familiar to you. It's normal to want to be able to communicate in your native language. True assimilation generally does not occur until the 2nd generation. The children of immigrants will be the ones to assimilate. My great grandparents came from Germany. They lived in a German speaking neighborhood. My great grandparents never really did pick up English well.. However my grandparents DID.. and my parents did not speak any German beyond a few words and phrases. Why do people think Hispanics must speak English and assimilate on DAY ONE?? Seriously.. it seems to be a different standard being espoused.
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Actually, the assimilation issue may vary. Some people do this quite well, others have more of a struggle. I have several family members that did quite well though they haven't lost their accents. They did learn the language fairly quickly but it is a process that does take time. They have assimilated quite well and are American in every sense.

I can understand the difficulty in learning a language later in life. If I immigrated to another country, I would accept that I would need to learn the language. It doesn't happen overnight and requires the help of others. I worked among people from all over the world and at times, there were language barriers. But the longer they were here, the better they got. It isn't easy. They had English classes at work and even helped to get rid of foreign accents. I certainly do not expect anyone to speak English on day one but I do think they should be trying along with our help. They do have classes locally in the high schools.
 
The immigration wave back in the late 1800's early 1900's when most of our ancestors arrived, was primarily Europeans.. They immigrated en masse and ended up flocking together in neighborhoods. There were Italian neighborhood, German neighborhoods, Polish , Lithuanian, Greek, every ethnic group. There were radio stations broadcasting in Polish and other languages.. Newspapers.... Stores.... etc..

This is not unlike what Hispanic immigrants are doing.. Older immigrants are not inclined to learn English because they are able to live within their familiar culture here.. I'm not saying they shouldn't attempt to learn.. but DEMANDING it? How can you do that? The Kids will though... and by the time THEY have kids.. full assimilation will be complete..
 
Older immigrants are not inclined to learn English because they are able to live within their familiar culture here.. I'm not saying they shouldn't attempt to learn.. but DEMANDING it? How can you do that? The Kids will though... and by the time THEY have kids.. full assimilation will be complete..
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Exactly the same as happens in Australia. Assimilation happens in its own time and cannot be forced.
 
Warrigal said:
Exactly the same as happens in Australia. Assimilation happens in its own time and cannot be forced.
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I'm not sure why the Hispanic wave of immigrants should be held to standards different than other cultures were. My grandmother arrived in the States at age 11... She went to "German School" in her neighborhood.. and was taught English... but learned in German.. UNTIL she could successfully learn in English.
 
Lon, part of me admires your courage for casting your extreme right wing philosophy into these waters, knowing full well what kind of reaction you will be getting.

Part of me suspects that your tongue is firmly planted in your cheek, and you are having "a bit of fun," although it's a pretty nasty kind of fun.

And part of me (well, I did say "part," not "half") recognizes the irrational fears that seem to drive the conservative mentality these days. If your sentiments are sincere, that is.

I will assume the last to be the case, and will answer seriously, giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you are serious. The idea you have expressed in this thread is reeking with irrational fear:

I do have a problem with admitting those that MAY be detrimental to the continuation of our country and society by following religious laws that conflict with our Federal & State laws.

------------I can envisage however a situation where a Muslim that follows Sharia Law commits a offense that is punishable by our legal system and try to use his religious beliefs as a defense (AND WINS) This has already been the case in some places.

Stonning an adultress---how barbaric.

Norway,Sweden, Denmark, Germany have had no end of problems with Muslim immigrants. Can we learn something from this? The U.S. has enough problems as it is.
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The arguments offered by the conservatives always have this ring of "(shudder) the next thing you know, so-and-so will happen." Instead of looking squarely at the world as it is, and dealing with real problems if and when they arise, there is always this scare tactic. Gay marriage? Unisex bathrooms?
Allow four-letter words on TV? Teach evolution in schools? Provide the basic necessities of life for the destitute? A generation ago: integrated classrooms? Oh my Lord, what is the world coming to?

As for that idea that their religion would preclude lying about Sharia beliefs, all I can say is go back and read the thread where I posted Tom Lehrer's Irish Ballad. I don't think you are really as naive as that; it was probably a disingenuous attempt at "gotcha."

Anyway, you did provoke a nice, juicy discussion, and for that I thank you.
 
Assimilation into English usually takes one generation or less. It cannot be forced, and does not need to be. Kids always want to speak the majority language.
 
QuickSilver said:
The immigration wave back in the late 1800's early 1900's when most of our ancestors arrived, was primarily Europeans.. They immigrated en masse and ended up flocking together in neighborhoods. There were Italian neighborhood, German neighborhoods, Polish , Lithuanian, Greek, every ethnic group. There were radio stations broadcasting in Polish and other languages.. Newspapers.... Stores.... etc..

This is not unlike what Hispanic immigrants are doing.. Older immigrants are not inclined to learn English because they are able to live within their familiar culture here.. I'm not saying they shouldn't attempt to learn.. but DEMANDING it? How can you do that? The Kids will though... and by the time THEY have kids.. full assimilation will be complete..
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I like the theory however the reality of one growing up with the language of their parents being used in their school and kids being told they cannot wear t-shirts with the American flag for fear of offending Mexicans does not set a path towards assimilation.

I am not blaming the kids for thinking that they are still in "the old counrty". I blame the aldult who set up such a climate.
 
tnthomas said:
I rather enjoy Lon's "stir-the-pot" threads, and I suspect that he enjoys the notoriety as well.
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I am not sure if it is to wake us up to what some people in this country actually believe or he is just old school and unwilling to open his mind and be flexible to the world as it is today. If it is the latter, I feel sorry for him because with deep rooted hatred, there is little one can accomplish except for misery. I think Lon is quite intelligent and is most likely conservative but not in agreement with this underground Tea Party movement. We can't go back in time, but it would be nice to restore the sanity in our country by returning to our principles and stop trying to maneuver around the constitution. I doubt the authors intended it as a document for our legislators to outslick one another. If they would just dedicate their time to be in Congress, reading, debating, negotiating, you know, the job they signed up for--we might not be where we are today!
 
Carla said:
I am not sure if it is to wake us up to what some people in this country actually believe or he is just old school and unwilling to open his mind and be flexible to the world as it is today. If it is the latter, I feel sorry for him because with deep rooted hatred, there is little one can accomplish except for misery. I think Lon is quite intelligent and is most likely conservative but not in agreement with this underground Tea Party movement. We can't go back in time, but it would be nice to restore the sanity in our country by returning to our principles and stop trying to maneuver around the constitution. I doubt the authors intended it as a document for our legislators to outslick one another. If they would just dedicate their time to be in Congress, reading, debating, negotiating, you know, the job they signed up for--we might not be where we are today!
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Well Carla dear, let me help ya out a bit. Thomas is right & I plead guilty to enjoying STIRRING THE POT. BTW--I consider my self to be a Social Liberal & Fiscal Conservative.
 
Lon said:
Well Carla dear, let me help ya out a bit. Thomas is right & I plead guilty to enjoying STIRRING THE POT. BTW--I consider my self to be a Social Liberal & Fiscal Conservative.
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I used to describe my beliefs as "Social Liberal & Fiscal Conservative" as well. However, I'm not sure that the label "Conservative" means the same thing nowadays as it did 30 years ago.
 
tnthomas said:
I used to describe my beliefs as "Social Liberal & Fiscal Conservative" as well. However, I'm not sure that the label "Conservative" means the same thing nowadays as it did 30 years ago.
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Oh, gosh, yes. I remeber the Hubert Humphrey days of Liberalism. Now the've changed it to "Progressivism" and are approaching Marxism. ("Marxism" not to be confused with "Communism" - Karl's thinking, not that of "Uncle Joe")
 
Ray said:
I like the theory however the reality of one growing up with the language of their parents being used in their school and kids being told they cannot wear t-shirts with the American flag for fear of offending Mexicans does not set a path towards assimilation.

I am not blaming the kids for thinking that they are still in "the old counrty". I blame the aldult who set up such a climate.
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We've actually seen a lot of this here, where some older Hispanic immigrants don't want their kids to learn English, and actually punish them for doing so. There was a push a while ago for Spanish only schools -- that didn't get much of anywhere. In my opinion, if you are going to live in a country (WHATEVER country) your kids are going to have a harder time if they don't learn the prevalent language. It could cripple them in many career, social, and higher education paths.
 
There was the family in Arizona. The daughter refused to marry the man that her father picked out. The father saw this as dishonoring the family, so he ran her over with his car and killed her.

Do we really need that culture here?
 

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