Who is God the Father? Zeus, Jupiter, Thor, the great “I AM”, or the man in the moon

Warrigal brings up so many interesting points. I always felt that since we are imbued with the Holy Spirit (Holy Ghost) or what belief system equivalent someone has, the raising up at the end of the world was of our non corporeal spirit. I mean there must be people who believe our actual bodies will be restored, but I am not one of them.

Also, the near death experiences that people report about mansions in heaven and streets paved in gold? I can’t believe this is true. What need of those mundane objects unless it’s actually hell? Stuck in a never ending cycle of materialistic chaos would truly be hell.

As for us all being related in some ways, surely we are. But I always get confused between skin color differences and races. Nationalities, I get nationalities. What does color have to do with race? And, then, the races are mixed throughout the history of the world. I venture not many people are of pure blood. Perhaps some American Indians.

The romans recognized this as they allowed their men to mix with (ok, rape mostly) the populations in order to mix the races and cement their hold on certain areas. (I think I have this right.). The gods of those times also got mixed, spawning new gods. So, if God the father, created it all then he allowed these lesser gods.

Which is why one of the ten commands says something to the effect that you shall have no other gods before me. They did and that caused issues for Moses. Now follow my logic and hopefully Lara will explain the biblical version.

The Jewish God of the Old Testament wanted to be the main God. It is this Jewish God who is the father of JC. Then the Jewish people rejected JC; except for the ones that left the Jewish faith. Those Jews believed in JC as the son of God, and the Christian religion was born. The trinity comes into being.

God the father, JC the son, and the Holy Spirit formerly known as the Holy Ghost. So here’s my question, when we pray to God the father, as Christians, aren’t we praying to the Jewish God of the Old Testament? Since we know JC didn’t start creation (he wasn’t born till later), and some want to attribute everything to one god, the father of JC; aren’t all us Christians both Jewish and Christian?

Food for thought. Anyone?
 

Here’s some food for thought. Since I know little to nothing about religion I figured I’d do some research on this; not about religion but the fundamental belief in God.


According to research people in western society in general are becoming less religious and more spiritual. In a recent pole 89% of the population admitted to believing in God yet the theological complexity is vastly diverse.


The opinions about what God is are all so different yet acceptable. Some believe in a personal intervening God that is defined by religion. Others believe in a deist God, a cosmic watchmaker who wound up the universe and stepped back. Still, others accept God as a cosmic force, as nature personified.


The fact that 89% of the population in the Western Hemisphere believes in some type of God is inspiring. If all of them are using the term God then it’s misleading to group them all together like they believe the same thing.


Even amongst organized religion there’s a vast spectrum of opinions about how to deal with our wants and desires, from liberal to ultra conservative and everything in between. Some religious dominations support marriage equality others won’t permit women to be clergy.


This same division can be seen in regards to abortion, stem cell research, blood transfusions, environmental protection, war verses pacifism, economic inequality etc.,
Since religious views aren’t based of evidence but on conflicting claims of unprovable revelation then confusion and debate is to be expected however it appears that with every faith, even those rigid, dogmatic ones , there’s even a vast diversity of clashing beliefs.


These debates and dissension within conventional religions show that traditional models are faith are diminishing. The time when a religious authority could issue an order and expect it to be obeyed are quickly passing. People are becoming more educated and aware of the ways in which religion has manipulated mankind using shame and guilt so perhaps branched off and created their own beliefs


From this research it appears that more and more people are making up their own minds apart from religious tradition and authority.
People are becoming less afraid to ask questions and come up with their own conclusions even if these conflict with the dogmatic groups.


According to this survey it concludes that a wider diversity of faiths helps ‘everybody’ appreciate the importance of secularism and church state separation. This will ensure that nobody has the power to impose ‘their’ doctrine on others.


This information is inspiring. It means that the majority of people still believe. They are just customizing their beliefs to suite them. Curbing wants and desires seems to be key as well as living a simple lifestyle, all of which I do. No alcohol, no cigarettes, no wild parties but I’m still a rebel at heart which I don’t hide but probably should. Lol


Sorry Aneeda, I don’t have an answer to your question.
 
Aneeda72 said:
Also, the near death experiences that people report about mansions in heaven and streets paved in gold? I can’t believe this is true. What need of those mundane objects unless it’s actually hell? Stuck in a never ending cycle of materialistic chaos would truly be hell.
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If a brain thinks it's dying, it floods itself with DMT. We're looking out for our own well being even in death.

We also get some of that homemade DMT while we're asleep. We've divided our thoughts into a subconscious and a conscious to protect ourselves from the knowledge of our mortality and other less than savory truths. Dreams are an attempt to bridge that gap and make us one with ourselves.
 

A member asked me WHY I became an atheist. My answer is due to almost ALL of this threads posts.

Simply stated: WAY TOO many "Ifs" Not enough TRUE ANSWERS.

MAN made god; NOT the other way around. Who, or WHAT is "God" Has anybody ever seen him/her/it ?

Is God a human being or only exists in people's imagination? Help !
 
That was me that asked. That’s fair enough.
Im participating in this thread because I was interested in what others had to say about the subject but also because I told Aneeda I would support her if she started a thread about God and why we believe.

Since I can’t seem to participate in the same language I researched an article that I thought explained some logical reasons why. Some is from the article with my own words added.

If this thread is upsetting a lot of people then I will end my participation since that wasn’t my intention. I merely found the topic interesting and thought I was being respectful in my responses.
 
It’s a good thing to believe in a god who matches your core beliefs rather than have a ready made one shoved down your face by others. Whose to say this isn’t how it is supposed to be? Humans have invented their gods from the beginning of time and then we conformed.

In today’s world we can still have our basic faith in whatever faith we chose, and still question. We can, lol, due to free will, have the freedom to not conform to a book written long ago by a people who wrote on walls, sheepskins, and parchments with birds feathers. It’s an amazing time to research the facts about the gods, Christianity, and the rest.

No harm, insult, or offense is meant or implied in this thread.

Nihil,

But some people just see the light. I believe in the light thing, not the other. When I die I am heading for the light, not streets of gold. I feel death is like conscious sedation. One minute you are there, the next you are not. It simply lacks the wake up portion. If there is an afterlife, you will know. If there is not an afterlife, you won’t know. Either way, it works for me.

Falcon,

Yup, lots of questions, and we are free to ask, research, and question. As children, of the 1950’s, we had no choice. Now we do. And you are free not to believe.
 
Keesha,

I don’t think you have a problem with participation in this thread. You are respectful. If someone wants to get upset, they can get upset with me. I’ll stand in front of you when the rotten tomatoes start to fly. But, I don’t think Falcon is upset. He’s just saying why he’s atheist, and we aren’t trying to change his mind on that.

Also, Falcon, while I have not seen god, or any of the gods, my dead grandmother did appear to me when I was in a horrendous amount of pain last year. The doctors said I had an hallucination. They are probably right. Grandma was no god, didn’t even come close.
 
Aneeda72 said:
He’s just saying why he’s atheist, and we aren’t trying to change his mind on that.
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In the past, Christians have gotten violently angry with my logic. I'm glad you're OK with me trying to strip away your god concept.

EDIT: Sorry, my mind clearly saw "aren't we". Anyway, I'm glad I could poke the discussion.
 
I think people who get crazed when their beliefs are questioned are insecure about those beliefs. It always surprises me when people get angry. Your points and concerns are just as valid as mine; and just as welcome. My beliefs, as well, sometimes depart from scripture. Strip away, lol, because we really don’t know who god is.
 
Since we know JC didn’t start creation (he wasn’t born till later)


Food for thought. Anyone?
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Here's my food for thought....Just throwing it out there.....




John 1:1 King James Version (KJV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.






John 1:14 King James Version (KJV)
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
 
Nihil said:
In the past, Christians have gotten violently angry with my logic. I'm glad you're OK with me trying to strip away your god concept.
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Nihil, I wasn't aware you were "trying to strip away god concepts", I just thought you had interesting ideas.

We are open for discussion, not for or efforts to change anyone or to proselytize.
 
RadishRose said:
Nihil, I wasn't aware you were "trying to strip away god concepts", I just thought you had interesting ideas.

We are open for discussion, not for or efforts to change anyone or to proselytize.
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I was calling out Aneeda72. I'm always trying to strip away the god concept. It's natural for me. I haven't been all out in this thread, because feelers.
 
Aneeda,
So here’s my question, when we pray to God the father, as Christians, aren’t we praying to the Jewish God of the Old Testament?
Since we know JC didn’t start creation
Click to expand...
(he wasn’t born till later), and some want to attribute everything to one god, the father of JC; aren’t all us Christians both Jewish and Christian?
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Are you speaking of the Judeo-Christian traditions? That's a vast study, but here's just a start:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judeo-Christian

Since we know JC didn’t start creation
Click to expand...
Some people believe the Father and the Son are the same, as well as the Spirit. So, we don't really "know".

This theory was common, thousands of years ago.
 
Falcon said:
WHY I became an atheist....WAY TOO many "Ifs" Not enough TRUE ANSWERS...Who, or WHAT is "God" Has anybody ever seen him/her/it ?...Is God a human being or only exists in people's imagination? Help !
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If we knew all the answers then we wouldn't need "beliefs" and "faith"...nor a brain even...just a file cabinet on our shoulders to store all the knowledge that everyone already knows and agrees on. There would be no pondering, no philosophy, no Studies, no investigations, no interesting forums, etc etc. We'd be robots. How boring for us. How boring for our Creator.

2Timothy 2:13 God said "Study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman who need not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

I mean, obviously there is something greater than us going on. Our Creator wanted a humanity that He could fellowship with that could think, could love, could feel. Why isn't He here with us then you ask? He IS here for those who are open to Him.
 
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Nihil said:
If you want to live a good life, don't involve yourself with bad influences. We're highly trainable animals. We can train ourselves to be destructive or productive. We can give in to base desires and make them all we are, or we can see what this Homo sapiens can do. Our minds have moved past the basics. We're not stuck with bathroom humor. We can determine what is keeping us from living in a utopia and attempt to correct the problems at their roots. Our species loves detective work, so I'm sure we can figure out how to make Earth a paradise, if we really want to.
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Paradise on earth is a laudable goal and it begins with sharing. Christians talk about building the kingdom of Heaven on earth and look to the teachings of Jesus for the plans. Rather than some place far away with jewel encrusted buildings and pavements, the Kingdom is a place of peace and true justice. This earth has resources enough for everyone to live a decent life but we squander resources on conflict and extravagance when we could be caring for the least among us in every corner. I'm babbling a bit but you get the drift. Until we give up war mongering we will never achieve paradise on earth.

We can however build little pockets of peace and justice by our actions in our homes and in our neighbourhood.
 
Warrigal said:
Paradise on earth is a laudable goal and it begins with sharing. Christians talk about building the kingdom of Heaven on earth and look to the teachings of Jesus for the plans. Rather than some place far away with jewel encrusted buildings and pavements, the Kingdom is a place of peace and true justice. This earth has resources enough for everyone to live a decent life but we squander resources on conflict and extravagance when we could be caring for the least among us in every corner. I'm babbling a bit but you get the drift. Until we give up war mongering we will never achieve paradise on earth.
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Amen to that.

Warrigal said:
We can however build little pockets of peace and justice by our actions in our homes and in our neighbourhood.
Click to expand...

I'm too much of a dropout to be taken seriously. Everything I know is wrong. I don't mesh with society anymore. I need to be put on an island of new age hippies.
 
Falcon said:
A member asked me WHY I became an atheist. My answer is due to almost ALL of this threads posts.

Simply stated: WAY TOO many "Ifs" Not enough TRUE ANSWERS.

MAN made god; NOT the other way around. Who, or WHAT is "God" Has anybody ever seen him/her/it ?

Is God a human being or only exists in people's imagination? Help !
Click to expand...

I think I can help by sharing a bit of my story.

I had a minimalist Christian education as a child - Sunday school and school scripture lessons. Ours was not a church going family but nominally Christian. I was baptised Methodist and attended Baptist Sunday school. Scripture lessons were various because I went wherever my girlfriends went.

In my late teens, fascinated by science (it was the late 50s, an amazing time of discovery and progress) I decided that God was superfluous and became an atheist. Not an aggressive one but one convinced that mankind had outgrown the need for deities.

I married and had children and life went on just fine until my father died suddenly one night. As a child I had always been shielded from deaths in the family. Never went to a funeral or stood at someone's death bed. I was absolutely shattered and held my grief inside like a true Briton. Publicly I was OK but inside part of me was broken. Then my only sister delivered her first baby but it had died in the womb. Again, I discovered that I was not the strong person I imagined myself to be. I had no words of comfort to offer my sister. I just stood silently in her hospital room, conscious that she had lost her baby and I still had my two healthy children. Knowing the science of it all didn't seem to help either of us.

Then her second baby was born extremely early (28 weeks) and it was touch and go whether she would survive. A priest came to baptise her in the hospital and a nurse took the holy water and poured it into the humidicrib apparatus. Children at a local catholic school prayed for her, and although I though this to be mere superstition I was pleased about it because I could not pray. All I could do was cross all of my fingers while urging my niece to hang in there. She did and is now an amazing woman in her fifties.

Still I held to my atheistic non beliefs but funny things do happen. A co-incidence perhaps or perhaps not, I ended up getting a job at the same school where prayers were said for my niece. I was not catholic, had never met a nun in my life and was a product of the secular state system and did not believe in any god or gods. Yet they employed me to teach science and maths and after the first year they promoted me to head of the mathematics department. In my second year I was promoted to the position of vice principal.

Throughout this time I watched the religious ways of the school community - the prayers, the liturgies, the way the school was organised to meet the needs of the students and staff rather than the system in the state schools where efficiency was more important than people. I admired their faith and ways of doing things but I still thought that they were mistaken, somewhat misguided and I was sure that I was the sole keeper of truth in the school. I did nothing to disillusion them because they seemed happy. How's that for arrogance?

Then the inexplicable happened. I was sent on a week long pastoral care course. It was a secular course but during one of the exercises called a guided reflection a voice broke through my intellectual defences in a very personal way. It was disturbing, to say the least. I came from within me but it was not of me. I could not rationalise it away. Then, soon after, I was woken from sleep by hearing my name called in my dream. It sounded like my mother's voice calling me to wake as she did when I was a child. Something inside me recognised the voice of God and I responded with an audible "Yes, Lord".

Immediately I was filled with an euphoric happiness that lasted quite some months. I began to pray, always silently and always expressing my gratitude and happiness. I had a lot bottled up that needed to come out. I surrendered my life's ambitions, my frustrations, my anger and my guilts and in so doing I did become a new person.

I am still a person of scientific thinking. I am still a flawed human being. I still doubt many conventional doctrines but I am no longer an atheist.

I am an elder of my church community. I teach Sunday School and serve on the committee that manages a long day care centre associated with our church. I chose not to join the catholic church but I remain very appreciative of my time working beside the nuns. That time lasted 25 years and taught me so much about unconditional love, inclusivity and social justice.
 
Warrigal,

Thank you so much for sharing this experience. We are all flawed human beings. It’s so easy to forget we are a community of people trying to make it through life together. I have heard of people having very similar experiences as this but in a different context, so to me, your experience is very believable.

My experience was visiting my great grandmother’s grave which is in a different state. Once I found it, and was beside her grave, I was given the greatest feeling of peace, and knowledge that things would be alright now that we had connected. It was as if she was waiting for me and I was finally home. Hard to explain.

I have read that other people, researching their genealogy, have had experiences such as these as well. As Lara said, you have to be open to the experience, and accept it for what it is.

Don’t worry, Nihil, still not trying to convert you, lol. But your island ideal, hmm, I might be safer with you on that island since you want to “call me out”. As for new age hippies, lol, they would probably all be spiritualists, not your cup of tea at all.
 
Aneeda72 said:
Don’t worry, Nihil, still not trying to convert you, lol. But your island ideal, hmm, I might be safer with you on that island since you want to “call me out”. As for new age hippies, lol, they would probably all be spiritualists, not your cup of tea at all.
Click to expand...

I don't mind spiritual hippies. A lot of what they practice is closer to what's scientifically best for us. Their practices have emerged from experimentation. That's an interesting quality of spirituality. I'm listening to some fantastic ambient I made with Paulstretch and Oxygene4 while enjoying the vibes surrounding me. That's not new age hippie at all.
 
With this discussion of spirituality, it seems that some have overlooked the significance of the real world. We are composed of matter. We exist in a universe, governed by scientific laws. Our very being is ordered by DNA. Our lives are programmed by it. What we call "life" is nothing more than our bodies functioning according to biological principles, honed over eons of evolution. The stages of our lives are set in hormones. It is no coincidence that most of us seek out mates at generally the same time in life. Most of us have an innate human sense of justice, honor, and the need for human interaction. We live by natural laws. For instance, nations with the highest median age are the most stable, nations with the lowest are the most volatile, plagued with armed conflict. We do have an intellect , which is capable of civilization or Auschwitz. Our feelings are the reaction to sensory input. Human emotions are a complex mix of bodily needs, feelings, hormones, DNA and human interaction. As a species, we have thrived for tens of thousands of years. We can't divorce ourselves from the reality of our nature. Death is an aspect of that reality. Spirituality, if it exists, is a human tool to achieve immortality. The reality of our being colors all aspects of our life. Our concepts of gods, the after life, etc. are tethered to a hard reality
 
It's very selfish of those who try to prove that God exists only in Man's imagination. Don't these smug people realise that mankind invented 'God' because they need to believe that there is a mastermind behind our existence? The thought that life is totally random, our planet is floating helplessly in space..that there is no masterplan, no-one in control...is too much for most people to cope with. So they have invented someone to make them feel secure...big daddy God is up there, looking after us.
 
Rosemarie said:
It's very selfish of those who try to prove that God exists only in Man's imagination. Don't these smug people realise that mankind invented 'God'...
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"Selfish"? "Smug"? I see you are new here. Welcome to our friendly senior forum. Just a friendly tip...notice that most of us here don't insult others for their beliefs. You can post your opinion without insults and it will have better results.
 
Lara said:
"Selfish"? "Smug"? I see you are new here. Welcome to our friendly senior forum. Just a friendly tip...notice that most of us here don't insult others for their beliefs. You can post your opinion without insults and it will have better results.
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Thank you Lara. Personally, I was tongue-tied so I appreciate you speaking for me.
 
I've reread Rosemarie's note several times over, and am having trouble understanding her point. First, she says it's selfish to try to prove that God exists only in Man's imagination. A couple of sentences later, she says people have invented God to make them feel secure.

Can you clarify, Rosemarie?
 

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