Up to 18 people shot at Walmart El Paso Texas

Arguing among yourselves does nothing to make people safer. If that is all that happens then be prepared to live in constant fear. The experience of terrified people in Times Square will become more and more commonplace, as will the weekly death tolls. Imagine yourself hearing a motorcycle backfire and being reduced to a panicked mess banging on a shut door hoping not to be shot dead.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08...-false-alarm-in-wake-of-us-shootings/11393614
Perhaps millions of people every day shouting, "Do something", at elected officials might just get the ball rolling. Refuse to listen to anything they say unless it is constructive.
 

Warrigal said:
Arguing among yourselves does nothing to make people safer. If that is all that happens then be prepared to live in constant fear. The experience of terrified people in Times Square will become more and more commonplace, as will the weekly death tolls. Imagine yourself hearing a motorcycle backfire and being reduced to a panicked mess banging on a shut door hoping not to be shot dead.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08...-false-alarm-in-wake-of-us-shootings/11393614
Perhaps millions of people every day shouting, "Do something", at elected officials might just get the ball rolling. Refuse to listen to anything they say unless it is constructive.
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Millions of Americans are shouting "Do Something" at elected officials every day. The problem is that when it comes to politics in the US, money talks. The NRA makes big donations, as do gun manufacturers, and supporters of both of these.
 

StarSong said:
Millions of Americans are shouting "Do Something" at elected officials every day. The problem is that when it comes to politics in the US, money talks. The NRA makes big donations, as do gun manufacturers, and supporters of both of these.
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OK, trying to keep this non-political ...........Just what would you suggest they [elected officials] do ? I know, I know .... the first knee-jerk reaction is, stop the sale of rapid fire weapons. Sorry but that will not have any affect for decades to come if it has any by then, which I doubt very seriously.

OK, a scenario , the NRA donations are rejected, the NRA is heavily fined, and all rapid fire weapons are banned from sale to all.......What happens when the first mass-shooting happens after that?
 
Money talks everywhere but the sound of people chanting in unison in the streets does tend to scare the pants off officials hoping for another term and encourages those seeking to replace them. "Do something" isn't just a message for politicians - it also speaks to the general public. Hand wringing won't change anything.

I'm reminded of the message on a Japanese peace pole that was installed in the garden of the school where I taught for many years. The inscription was "May peace prevail on Earth, and let it begin with me." The same principle applies to all social movements. Individuals, acting together, can move mountains and overcome obstacles. Discussion groups seldom achieve much at all.
 
rgp said:
OK, trying to keep this non-political ...........Just what would you suggest they [elected officials] do ? I know, I know .... the first knee-jerk reaction is, stop the sale of rapid fire weapons. Sorry but that will not have any affect for decades to come if it has any by then, which I doubt very seriously.

OK, a scenario , the NRA donations are rejected, the NRA is heavily fined, and all rapid fire weapons are banned from sale to all.......What happens when the first mass-shooting happens after that?
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This is non political. It is about life and death which is surely a serious issue that should never be a political football. You have said why some actions cannot achieve anything. Do you have any suggestions for something that will reduce the death toll? What would you do if you had the power to do something constructive and effective?

To answer your question about elected officials - I would suggest they start representing their constituents instead of their donors. They will not do this until they believe that that is the only way to keep their jobs. They could pass laws holding gun manufacturers and outlets responsible for compensation to victims of massacres and provide an incentive to back off on the promotion of certain categories of weapons such as the ones most commonly used in mass shootings. They could speak out against hate speech and hate sites. They could find ways to use them to identify potential killers and track them. There is much that they could do to start making a difference. I am not talking partisan politics here - the issue is politicians stepping up and being counted for the sake of the people. Have the same courage as the first responders and the parents who died shielding their tiny infant. Let them risk political death as others have faced actual death. This will only happen when enough people demand action.
 
Gun control is not the issue. Mental illness and psychosis drives hatred, and whatever contributes to that hatred IS the issue. (Like drugs and the MSM, which pervade our sense of peace and/or outrage.) Timothy McVeigh killed over 160 people and collapsed a multi story building with fertilizer and a U-haul. Guns are not the problem, and more laws are not the answer. That said, I really have no problem with more controls on automatic weapon sales--but I honestly just don't believe that would help.
 
I believe with many of the shooters, they have decided that they don't like the way their life is going, are tired of being an unimportant nobody and think it would take too long and be too much work to change that so they are done with life and want to move on but they know that a simple suicide would probably also go unnoticed except for a few close ones so why not go out in a blaze of glory. "If I can't be famous , I'll be infamous. Everybody will know my name and be thinking about ME and I'll be important ,,,,,,, at least for a day"

These events are not about either the victims or the professed 'cause' but about the perpetrator and his self-esteem
 
C'est Moi, gun control most definitely is the issue. The rest of the world has mental illness also, but with stricter (i.e., civilized) gun laws, they have a tiny fraction of the deaths that are occurring in this country. You can't argue with the numbers.
 
rgp said:
OK, trying to keep this non-political ...........Just what would you suggest they [elected officials] do ? I know, I know .... the first knee-jerk reaction is, stop the sale of rapid fire weapons. Sorry but that will not have any affect for decades to come if it has any by then, which I doubt very seriously.

OK, a scenario , the NRA donations are rejected, the NRA is heavily fined, and all rapid fire weapons are banned from sale to all.......What happens when the first mass-shooting happens after that?
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Same thing that always happens. The politicians and leaders offer their prayers and condolences.

The NRA says it takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun.
 
Camper6 said:
Same thing that always happens. The politicians and leaders offer their prayers and condolences.

The NRA says it takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun.
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OK....how would you suggest stopping a mass shooter??
StarSong said:
As I said earlier, when you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is to stop digging. What do we do about future mass shooters? How about if we STOP ARMING THEM!
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I'm sure you realize it's way too late to "stop arming them," when they're already armed.
I do understand your frustration; you want to feel like something is being done.
 
We already have over 300 million firearms in this country. At what point do we say it's time to change course? When it reaches a billion? Two billion? When everyone feels it necessary to walk into Target with an AR strapped across our chests? When our country suffers terribly from a lack of tourism because it's just too dangerous to come here?

Don't think the above can't happen - it's just further down the path that we insist on walking.
 
win231 said:
OK....how would you suggest stopping a mass shooter??

Well I wouldn't want to rely on luck such as hoping a good guy with a gun shows up.

So far, I think our best bet, which is far from perfect is background checks on any sale of a weapon private or otherwise. There's not much you can do with the guns already in existence except maybe a wholesale turn in such as Australia has done. And so far there has been no mass murders in Australia.
And as far as stopping before he starts shooting the only way is to try unconstitutional spying I suppose.

I'm sure you realize it's way too late to "stop arming them," when they're already armed.
I do understand your frustration; you want to feel like something is being done.
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You have to start somewhere and sometime. One small step for mankind.

When I think of the guy in Texas walking through the church and killing children execution style which is so bad, that they haven't released the video.
 
Warrigal said:
This is non political. It is about life and death which is surely a serious issue that should never be a political football. You have said why some actions cannot achieve anything. Do you have any suggestions for something that will reduce the death toll? What would you do if you had the power to do something constructive and effective?

To answer your question about elected officials - I would suggest they start representing their constituents instead of their donors. They will not do this until they believe that that is the only way to keep their jobs. They could pass laws holding gun manufacturers and outlets responsible for compensation to victims of massacres and provide an incentive to back off on the promotion of certain categories of weapons such as the ones most commonly used in mass shootings. They could speak out against hate speech and hate sites. They could find ways to use them to identify potential killers and track them. There is much that they could do to start making a difference. I am not talking partisan politics here - the issue is politicians stepping up and being counted for the sake of the people. Have the same courage as the first responders and the parents who died shielding their tiny infant. Let them risk political death as others have faced actual death. This will only happen when enough people demand action.
Click to expand...


"Do you have any suggestions for something that will reduce the death toll? What would you do if you had the power to do something constructive and effective?"

i have already stated [my] suggestion, it is swift sure prosecution , followed by a swiftly carried out punishment ..death ! I have also said that in the case of most of these killers, a trial is not necessary , when they are known/caught in the act. So death in 24 hours, and announcing it / reporting it on the the news!

"They could pass laws holding gun manufacturers and outlets responsible for compensation to victims of massacres and provide an incentive to back off on the promotion of certain categories of weapons such as the ones most commonly used in mass shootings."

So should auto manufactures be held responsible when a drunk kills with a car? What about Louisville Slugger , should they be held responsible if someone kills with a bat ?

"They could speak out against hate speech and hate sites. "

They already do that.

"They could find ways to use them to identify potential killers and track them. "

OK, then what? What would you support ? Let's say they have a bead on one, they're tracking him, they think he's close to doing [something] ... do they arrest him ? incarcerate him ? even though he has actually done nothing ...... do they shoot him ? Would support any of this ? What if he is a member of your family ? a friend ........ maybe even your son .......... Would you support them ?
 
The fact that we have over 300 million guns in America tells me that guns themselves are not the problem.

IMO we need to be looking at who owns the guns and try to enact gun laws that prevent unbalanced people from acquiring them. Support confiscating guns from people who have a history of mental illness or criminal behavior. We have a national database for all sorts of things so I don't think that it would be inconceivable to have a database for people who cannot own or purchase weapons along with severe penalties for people who purchase or provide guns to these people.

I also believe that training, background checks, banning internet sales of guns, banning high capacity ammo clips, and automatic weapons should be looked at before we start a discussion about banning guns altogether.

It seems odd that we encourage and celebrate the young people that take up arms to protect and serve in our military but we do not trust young people to handle those same weapons as civilians.

There has to be an answer based on education, evaluation, etc... that we are missing or not working hard enough to find.
 
Aunt Bea said:
The fact that we have over 300 million guns in America tells me that guns themselves are not the problem.

IMO we need to be looking at who owns the guns and try to enact gun laws that prevent unbalanced people from acquiring them. Support confiscating guns from people who have a history of mental illness or criminal behavior. We have a national database for all sorts of things so I don't think that it would be inconceivable to have a database for people who cannot own or purchase weapons along with severe penalties for people who purchase or provide guns to these people.

I also believe that training, background checks, banning internet sales of guns, banning high capacity ammo clips, and automatic weapons should be looked at before we start a discussion about banning guns altogether.

It seems odd that we encourage and celebrate the young people that take up arms to protect and serve in our military but we do not trust young people to handle those same weapons as civilians.

There has to be an answer based on education, evaluation, etc... that we are missing or not working hard enough to find.
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"banning internet sales of guns,"

Guns can be [sold] on the net, but they must be [obtained] through a licensed dealer.

Ya buy the gun from ?? It is then shipped to a licensed dealer , where you go through the background check etc. Then if all clears, the gun is yours.

Does it ever fail ? I suppose, but we'll never know.
 
iu
SUPER COOL DESIGN: Intriguing styling and cool camouflage patterns to create a toy machine gun that will have your little one giddy with excitement. Our toy machine gun even comes with a scope that you can look through and a stand to keep it stable and secure on the ground. It's built ready for some serious action! (text from Amazon ad)

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afghan-children-play-with-plastic-guns-as-they-celebrate-eid-alfitr-picture-id452879266



mattels-m-16-Vintage-creepy-kids-ads.jpg
 
Did I hear it right that the shooter in Ohio also shot and killed his sister? If that’s true, why?
 
Camper6 said:
You have to start somewhere and sometime. One small step for mankind.

When I think of the guy in Texas walking through the church and killing children execution style which is so bad, that they haven't released the video.
Click to expand...

You touched on something important - "Well, I wouldn't want to wait until a good guy with a gun shows up." The reality is, if more good guys were carrying concealed, a mass shooter could be stopped before the body count gets high. That's why the shooter is either stopped or commits suicide when police show up; police officers are the "good guys with the guns." But police can't be everywhere; that's why people have the right to have guns in their homes. When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

People who blame guns for this are forgetting that fact - that a gun is the only way to stop a killer.
 
The guns may be the only way to stop a killer (how do they stop them in other countries, rgp, and why are there so few mass shootings, compared to this barbaric country?) but the guns should be in the hands of law enforcement, not every swaggering idiot who boasts about how many guns he has. Somehow I'd rather entrust my safety to the police.

Let's look away from the guns for a moment and think about the level of hatred that inspires these killings. Is it about the same as the level of hatred that inspires people to blow up innocent people with bombs? I think it is. So, why the hatred? Who, or what, do we have to blame for it? Is it (as I believe) a mental sickness?
 
Sunny said:
Let's look away from the guns for a moment and think about the level of hatred that inspires these killings. Is it about the same as the level of hatred that inspires people to blow up innocent people with bombs? I think it is. So, why the hatred? Who, or what, do we have to blame for it? Is it (as I believe) a mental sickness?
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Is it a culture which we've fostered as I tried to illustrate by the children's toy gun pics? Or an instinct we're nurturing?

Like @C'est Moi , I played with guns too; cap pistols, etc. In fact, I still have a wood replica of an M1 in the closet that my father gave me for Xmas the year I wanted the Daisy air rifle I saw in the comic books. He taught me drills. I didn't turn into a killer either.

But I can't totally discount early conditioning because we are, as a species, killers. We should be more careful.

As a species, most of us have learned to abhor killing our own but will kill animals for thrills, for trophies, for fun.

But IMO, the urge is still there. Those with certain disorders become victims of their rage and go off on a shoot.

We all know if there were no guns, less people would die by use of knives, axes, bombs, vehicles, baseball bats, rocks and stones. That's not the point I struggle to make.

We have to step up our evolution somehow as it appears we are emotionally still in the stone age.
 
911 said:
Did I hear it right that the shooter in Ohio also shot and killed his sister? If that’s true, why?
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Yes, she was and they don't know why. The sister's male friend was shot in the torso and listed among the wounded.
 

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