The Police Knee On The Neck Is Allowed!!

Pinky said:
I hope Permangelder was writing out of frustration. Perhaps she has personally been treated unfairly due to her indigenous roots. That's why I initially agreed with her.

My daughter is bi-racial, and our nephews and nieces partners are of many different races, so I don't agree that all white people are bigots.
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I'm making an assumption here but it is very likely that Permangelder has experienced racism from two directions. In the first place from white Australians for claiming to be Indigenous but having a fair complexion and secondly from other indigenous Australians for not being black enough. If anyone knows the ins and outs of racist attitudes, Permangelder probably knows more than most of us.

Disclaimer - I'm very fair skinned due to my ancestry but don't think of myself as white. No-one calls me Whitey constantly reminding me of my heritage. Being fair skinned has never been a hindrance to me (except in the hot sun). However, if I had been born with dark skin or Asian features, I am pretty sure I would have experienced overt and covert racism in Australia on a daily basis. Sometimes it is delivered as a joke, sometimes as an insult but more often as a denial of opportunity and other forms of discrimination.
 

fuzzybuddy said:
There is a misconception that kneeling on someone's neck is some approved police procedure. It isn't. Who in the hell believes it's okay to kneel on anyone's neck. Police have been sued for putting people in head locks, never mind kneeling in their necks. There is no factual evidence that kneeling on someone's neck is an approved police procedure, anywhere.
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You are misinformed about the procedure.
 
Warrigal said:
I'm making an assumption here but it is very likely that Permangelder has experienced racism from two directions. In the first place from white Australians for claiming to be Indigenous but having a fair complexion and secondly from other indigenous Australians for not being black enough. If anyone knows the ins and outs of racist attitudes, Permangelder probably knows more than most of us.

Disclaimer - I'm very fair skinned due to my ancestry but don't think of myself as white. No-one calls me Whitey constantly reminding me of my heritage. Being fair skinned has never been a hindrance to me (except in the hot sun). However, if I had been born with dark skin or Asian features, I am pretty sure I would have experienced overt and covert racism in Australia on a daily basis. Sometimes it is delivered as a joke, sometimes as an insult but more often as a denial of opportunity and other forms of discrimination.
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How right you are @Warrigal
 

fuzzybuddy said:
Considering the medical complications, death being one of them, why any jackass would kneel on someones throat is unbelievable. If the cops have been using this so called "procedure' for any length of time, then this is not the first death to occur.
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Some police officers are drawn to a career in law enforcement because they crave power & control & enjoy hurting people. A racist cop can obviously choose who he wants to hurt, as former LAPD detective Mark Fuhrman explained on tape: "We were so tight, we knew we could get away with anything; we have each other's backs. We pulled people over for DWB - (Driving While Black)."
And what other profession allows someone to commit murder & possibly get away with it? And also be looked up to as a hero.

I was a shooting instructor for several years & also worked in retail firearms sales. Many of our customers were cops; we supplied them with most of their equipment. The conversations I heard when cops would discuss some of their arrests would surprise most. One in particular:
"There's nothin' better than pulling a suspect out of my car, shoving my baton in his gut & watching him puke out everything he ate that day."
I couldn't help but notice the look of pure ecstasy on his face as he described it.
 
win231 said:
Some police officers are drawn to a career in law enforcement because they crave power & control & enjoy hurting people. A racist cop can obviously choose who he wants to hurt, as former LAPD detective Mark Fuhrman explained on tape: "We were so tight, we knew we could get away with anything; we have each other's backs. We pulled people over for DWB - (Driving While Black)."
And what other profession allows someone to commit murder & possibly get away with it? And also be looked up to as a hero.

I was a shooting instructor for several years & also worked in retail firearms sales. Many of our customers were cops; we supplied them with most of their equipment. The conversations I heard when cops would discuss some of their arrests would surprise most. One in particular:
"There's nothin' better than pulling a suspect out of my car, shoving my baton in his gut & watching him puke out everything he ate that day."
I couldn't help but notice the look of pure ecstasy on his face as he described it.
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Anyone watching CNN? This discussion is over IMO. We have worst things to worry about.
 
rgp said:
If that is department procedure ? And he chose to use it ? How can there be criminal charges ?
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Seriously rpg??!! Would you want there to be charges if it was your son or grandson? Or would it be okay with you? Clearly if it's allowed, which it shouldn't be (the mayor denounced that technique BTW), the it certainly shouldn't be until it causes death. You say IF that was the cause?! He kneeled on Mr. Floyd's neck for nearly 9 minutes. Yet you doubt that caused his death?!! SMDH!!!
 
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OneEyedDiva said:
Seriously rpg??!! Would you want there to be charges if it was your son or grandson? Or would it be okay with you? Clearly if it's allowed, which it shouldn't be (the mayor denounced that technique BTW), the it certainly shouldn't be until it causes death. You say IF that was the cause?! He kneeled on Mr. Floyd's neck for nearly 9 minutes. Yet you doubt that caused his death?!! SMDH!!!
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I said .... if you would read before replying ..... I don't know what caused his death. And the actual cause / official cause has not been announced as yet.

And the neck maneuver & use of it was outlined earlier , in post #150 here by another member.
 
The cause of death has been announced. Early this evening, the autopsy report came back.

Death was caused entirely, and solely, by asphyxiation, due to the knee on the throat. There was nothing wrong with his heart or lungs, and he did not hit his head on anything. This declaration was positive and official. The authorities went out of their way to explain that those other "causes" of death had been ruled out.

It will probably be in your paper tomorrow morning.
 
A second (unbiased) autopsy revealed that the cause of death was Asphyxia, which is defined below:
Definition of asphyxiation. : deprivation of oxygen that can result in unconsciousness and often death : an act of asphyxiating a person or animal or a state of asphyxia: suffocation.
(as if we needed that).
 
rgp said:
I said .... if you would read before replying ..... I don't know what caused his death. And the actual cause / official cause has not been announced as yet.

And the neck maneuver & use of it was outlined earlier , in post #150 here by another member.
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Now, you know. Still in denial?
None so blind as he who doesn't want to see.
 
fuzzybuddy said:
Considering the medical complications, death being one of them, why any jackass would kneel on someones throat is unbelievable. If the cops have been using this so called "procedure' for any length of time, then this is not the first death to occur.
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Kneeling was on his neck not his throat over the carotid artery, shutting off the blood supply to the brain. There have been numerous posts about the manual that allows for hand or knee on the neck. On the throat is not allowed. No matter how the death occurred I think everyone is in agreement it was wrong. Early on I posted that the officer on his torso could contribute to his inability to breathe.
 
fuzzybuddy said:
Considering the medical complications, death being one of them, why any jackass would kneel on someones throat is unbelievable. If the cops have been using this so called "procedure' for any length of time, then this is not the first death to occur.
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Terence Lloyd is the brother of the dead man who spoke so forcefully and sensibly yesterday, urging restraint we all hope will be heard. I'm bemused that the victim knew or worked with the police officer responsible for his death, and can't begin to imagine what could have happened to make the things you describe occur?
 
Sunny said:
The cause of death has been announced. Early this evening, the autopsy report came back.

Death was caused entirely, and solely, by asphyxiation, due to the knee on the throat. There was nothing wrong with his heart or lungs, and he did not hit his head on anything. This declaration was positive and official. The authorities went out of their way to explain that those other "causes" of death had been ruled out.

It will probably be in your paper tomorrow morning.
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This is the independent autopsy by Dr. Baden. The medical examiner's is different in its statement of the actual cause of Mr. Floyd's death, but both say the manner of death was homicide.

Dr. Baden's autopsy says Mr. Floyd died of "asphyxiation from sustained pressure" when his neck and back were compressed by police officers and this pressure cut off blood flow to his brain.

The Medical Examiner's autopsy says the cause of death was "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression," which means his heart stopped. The medical examiner didn't mention asphyxiation.

So the medical examiner's autopsy says heart disease was an issue; Dr. Baden didn't find that.
 
Butterfly said:
This is the independent autopsy by Dr. Baden. The medical examiner's is different in its statement of the actual cause of Mr. Floyd's death, but both say the manner of death was homicide.

Dr. Baden's autopsy says Mr. Floyd died of "asphyxiation from sustained pressure" when his neck and back were compressed by police officers and this pressure cut off blood flow to his brain.

The Medical Examiner's autopsy says the cause of death was "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression," which means his heart stopped. The medical examiner didn't mention asphyxiation.

So the medical examiner's autopsy says heart disease was an issue; Dr. Baden didn't find that.
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Well, even I can agree, now that the autopsies are done, that the man was killed. I don’t think it’s unexpected that the autopsies differ. I still think the choice, when it goes to trial, will be between manslaughter and accidental death. But how does it go to a jury trial, where will they find the people for the jury?
 
win231 said:
Now, you know. Still in denial?
None so blind as he who doesn't want to see.
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No I do not know.

Did you read the link provided by Keesha in post 215 ?

There are still conflicting reports from the family hired autopsy [not official] and the county medical examiner [official] I'll wait for the official medical examiners report, expected in about two weeks.

You just can't drop the snide remarks can you ?..........pathetic.
 
Who could have ever predicted that kneeling on someone's throat could lead to death? After all, kneeling on the neck only restricts, or cuts off all together the blood flow through the carotid arteries. When that happens, people become unconscious. That's because the brain is no longer oxygenated, and starts to die. Brain death occurs in about 6 minutes. DUH!! And kneeling on someone's throat is akin to inducing a heart attack. But a well trained police officer, who is struggling with another person, is quite mindful of the amount of force he's applying, the exact amount of time he's applying the force, and monitoring the suspects vital signs, his condition, his breathing, his level of consciousness, his pupil dilation, the color of his skin., etc., etc., etc. It is amazing that doctors, nurses, and medical technicians in a modern, well equipped, well trained medical center have difficulty maintaining life when carotid arterial blood flow is altered, but a cop on a busy street has no problem.
There's nothing wrong with this "police procedure", ya know, outside of killing people.
 
BTW, as to autopsy reports. There is a protocol for listing "cause of death". While I don't know anything about it, that protocol, at times, may seem contrary, especially when there is multiple factors causing a death. I know that one autopsy can say X was the cause of death, and another say Y is. But both may be right. (At the same time, a guy is shot in the heart, and stabbed in the heart, which was THE cause of death? There can only be one "cause of death".) A lay person can misinterpret things in this very legalistic document.
 
Aunt Marg said:
"Cowards"? Anything but in my eyes.
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I think your "eyes" would have a different view if you'd had a brother serving in the war..

And similarly, individuals who take the approach 'all cops are bad, or at least cover for those who are' would see it differently if one of their kids was out there in the middle of it.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.. but those of us who've had loved ones in harm's way- past or present- have a much more personal stake in it than simply opinions.
 
Well, all the knee-jerk defense of this murderer in a police uniform seems to have quieted down. Sometimes, video technology can be a good thing!
 


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