Covid - We blew it

asp3, that was then (Feb/Mar) and this is now. A totally different world.

I agree, early containment and distribution of accurate information would have probably meant a much different 'now'. But who knows.

Regulations are only as effective as the policing. Who is stopping the blatant disregard of them.
 
gennie said:
asp3, that was then (Feb/Mar) and this is now. A totally different world.

I agree, early containment and distribution of accurate information would have probably meant a much different 'now'. But who knows.

Regulations are only as effective as the policing. Who is stopping the blatant disregard of them.
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I agree that it's a totally different world, but Taiwan has been able to navigate it successfully. We could to if we could just get people to follow some strict guidelines for 1 to 2 months. It will be painful, but which is more painful one strict, effective lock down or prolonged months of partial restrictions with many deaths and much longer disruption?

We already know that people will not self regulate.

The who knows are the people of Taiwan and other Asian countries who have had much more success in containing and restricting the spread of the virus and who have economies which have been much less disrupted than our own. So I think we do have excellent examples of what early containment and distribution of accurate information accomplishes.
 

asp3 said:
I'm of the opinion that if we had started with very restrictive regulations, built up robust contact tracing, developed quick, effective testing, strict quarantine for those who travel from region to region and made it easier for infected people to quarantine themselves without infecting their families we'd be in the same place as Taiwan is. They're basically open for business as usual and didn't have any local transmission (all their cases came in from outside of an area) for over 200 days.
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You're right, but the US early response was flubbed on so many levels.

Early response timeline with hyperlinks:

21 Jan 2020 CDC confirmed the first case of coronavirus in the United States.

14 Feb 2020 CDC Testing Announcement: THE CDC HAS BEGUN WORKING WITH FIVE PUBLIC HEALTH LABS TO CONDUCT COMMUNITY BASED INFLUENZA BASED SURVEILLANCE SO WE CAN TEST THOSE WITH FLU LIKE SYMPTOMS FOR NOVEL CORONAVIRUS. THOSE PUBLIC HEALTH LABS ARE IN LOS ANGELES, SAN FRANCISCO, SEATTLE, CHICAGO AND NEW YORK CITY

17 Feb 2020 Top disease official [FAUCI]: Risk of coronavirus in USA is 'minuscule'; skip mask and wash hands

though Reuters had reported on 6 Feb 2020 that Nearly 230 cases have been reported in 27 other countries and regions outside mainland China, according to a Reuters tally based on official statements.

Dr. Fauci surely knew the 6 Feb world count when he made the 17 Feb comments. How he thought the US was somehow not at risk given modern international travel, I do not understand.

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention will be testing for the coronavirus in people in five major cities who show up at clinics with flu-like symptoms but who test negative for the seasonal varieties.​
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If that testing shows the virus has slipped into the country in places federal officials don't know about, "we've got a problem," Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told USA TODAY's Editorial Board Monday.​
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Short of that, Fauci says skip the masks unless you are contagious, don't worry about catching anything from Chinese products and certainly don't avoid Chinese people or restaurants.​
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"Whenever you have the threat of a transmissible infection, there are varying degrees from understandable to outlandish extrapolations of fear," Fauci said.​
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28 Feb 2020 The United States badly bungled coronavirus testing—but things may soon improve

The World Health Organization (WHO) has shipped testing kits to 57 countries. China had five commercial tests on the market 1 month ago and can now do up to 1.6 million tests a week; South Korea has tested 65,000 people so far. The U. S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), in contrast, has done only 459 tests since the epidemic began. The rollout of a CDC-designed test kit to state and local labs has become a fiasco because it contained a faulty reagent. Labs around the country eager to test more suspected cases—and test them faster—have been unable to do so. No commercial or state labs have the approval to use their own tests.​
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Then there are the gawdawful federal 'leadership' 'hoaxes'/fiascos that I can't go into here.

From the very beginning, US response has been abysmal.

.
 
gennie said:
The key to controlling this is not in government regulations. It's in everyone taking personal responsibility for their own safety and that of their neighbor.

Learn the facts about your own village/community/town - the space you move about in. Determine your own susceptibility and level of comfort.

Then use common sense and do the right thing.
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Could not have said it better myself. It is exactly as we are living these days.
 
Yesterday I saw a news piece where four young people maybe in their mid 20's were sitting outside and one of them said he thought the whole thing is a hoax. Hard to believe anyone is that stupid but then when you look at how obesity is also rampaging stupid is now the norm.
 
ManjaroKDE said:
Report from one of my former 'snowbird' neighbors, in SW AZ the Canadians are not coming this winter. With national health care the Canadian government has told them that they will not have health care coverage if they travel to the US. Their benefits are invalid at the border, good luck with the costly healthcare options if available.
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Canadians aren't coming because the borders are closed, pure and simple.
 
gennie said:
The key to controlling this is not in government regulations. It's in everyone taking personal responsibility for their own safety and that of their neighbor.

Learn the facts about your own village/community/town - the space you move about in. Determine your own susceptibility and level of comfort.

Then use common sense and do the right thing.
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You are so correct gennie, the people are responsible
for their safety and the safety of others. My granddaughter caught the covid last week because she was invited to an outdoor birthday party for a school friend Only 5 children were supposed to be there. My granddaughter even had her mask on. One of the children that was also there had been exposed to a friend who had the covid yet her Mom made her attend the party anyway. My daughter found out that 2 of the other kids at the party also have the covid now. My daughter had stayed at the party to help the Mom so my daughter is getting tested tomorrow.
 
The teenage daughter of my wife's friend from work tested positive. My wife's friend got tested but her test came back as tainted, so no result , she got tested again but hasn't gotten results yet. She had symptoms, telling my wife she felt like someone was sitting on her chest. So wasn't my wife surprised to see a FB post from her at a bar taking a cheek to cheek selfie with a friend with no masks! That is why we'll never beat this thing without a vaccine, because people are stupid.
 
StarSong said:
Closing borders only works for countries that have already controlled the virus WITHIN their countries, have rigorous contact tracing, sufficient testing, strong leadership, and a committed population.

Singapore, NZ and Australia did all of these things from the get-go.
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And we have had or have none of the above. No wonder we've been behind the "eight-ball' from day one. Canada is closing the door on us and it's surprising that Mexico hasn't done the same.

Hopefully, a proven, working vaccine will come along sooner rather than later and save us from this slide into oblivion.
 
garyt1957 said:
Anybody going to Vegas or Disneyworld right now is an idiot.
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Jules said:
I agree. They’re flooding in every weekend from Southern CA.
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California's Disneyland has been closed since mid-March and is unlikely to be cleared for reopening anytime soon (much to Disney's dismay).

Las Vegas is in Nevada, not Southern CA.
Just keepin' it real.
 
StarSong said:
California's Disneyland has been closed since mid-March and is unlikely to be cleared for reopening anytime soon (much to Disney's dismay).

Las Vegas is in Nevada, not Southern CA.
Just keepin' it real.
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Just to keep it really real, Jules didn't say LV was in Southern California, she said people from Southern Cal are flocking into Vegas.
 
garyt1957 said:
Just to keep it really real, Jules didn't say LV was in Southern California, she said people from Southern Cal are flocking into Vegas.
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Thanks for the clarification. I completely misinterpreted his/her statement to mean that they were flooding into Canada after visits to DL & LV. :oops:

Not sure who's going to Las Vegas these days but would agree that it sure isn't a smart move.
 
Las Vegas exists in its own universe, at least the tourist part of it does. It's kind of a denial of reality.

I once read that gambling casinos never have clocks on the wall, because clocks serve as a reminder that maybe it's time to leave. They want their patrons to forget that there is an outside world, that adults are supposed to behave responsibly, etc.

So why wouldn't it be a hotbed of this disease?
 
Sunny said:
Las Vegas exists in its own universe, at least the tourist part of it does. It's kind of a denial of reality.

I once read that gambling casinos never have clocks on the wall, because clocks serve as a reminder that maybe it's time to leave. They want their patrons to forget that there is an outside world, that adults are supposed to behave responsibly, etc.

So why wouldn't it be a hotbed of this disease?
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That's true about clocks. Casino lighting and temperature remain the same, 24/7/365. Alcohol is served around the clock. Ditto breakfast, lunch and dinner foods.

The big casinos have constructed huge fantasy worlds within that contains hotel rooms, restaurants, all kinds of entertainment, shops, shows, babysitters on call, some contain movie theaters and bowling alleys, and so much more. They don't want you to leave - or to take your money elsewhere.
 
CarolfromTX said:
And so please tell me what nation handled this better? And how, exactly? Island nations excepted.
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Thailand has done much better than we have. Here is an article on how they did it. https://news.un.org/en/story/2020/08/1069191

For European countries both Norway and Finland at 54.23 and 66.6 deaths per million people have done better than we did. In between them both Sweden which didn't do much initially is at 610.34 deaths per million. We're at 743.83 deaths per million.

I got the numbers for the above at https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data . It looks like it's updated daily so the numbers you see might be different.
 

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