Warrigal
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Cynic. I don't believe for one second that you read Genesis as a literal text - that is If you have actually read it as an adult
Do we really “trust in God”?
- Thread starter Aneeda72
- Start date
Jim Bakker is still out there, now shilling some BS covid cure. And people actually still watch him!
Knight
Well-known Member
A cynic for sure. The bible is full of nice stories that try to explain the unknown & generate the image of a benevolent maker that could get angry.
Garden of Eden
An attempt to describe the beginning of mankind but fails to explain the timeline & made in "our" image. The images in fossils are a far cry from the popular images presented as representation of Adam & Eve. Was man the only image until one of the other "our" complained that more representation was needed?
Cain and Abel,
An attempt to show how jealousy can divide and how God dealt with it.
Noah and the Flood
One of the better stories. 1st. it must be understood is the difference between species & kind. Kind was the reference so at that time the best guess was about 1500 kind multiplied by the quantity about 7000 in total to be cared for. Genesis chapter 8- 4 &5 puts the total at over 300 days feeding & caring for those 7000. Really puzzling is how this could be. 10 animals that only exist in one place
https://www.cbc.ca/kidscbc2/the-feed/ten-animals-that-only-exist-in-one-place
Toss in the amount of "species" there are now in the relatively short time frame & it's mind boggling.
The diversity of care needed in food, reproduction, carnivores, herbivorous for the 1500 kind defies logic. But it is a nice way to pretend that some supernatural being billions of years old wanted to start over.
Tower of Babel. I really liked this story. Language is one thing but doesn't explain how the aborigines wound up in Australia 50,000 years ahead of Noah's time or how they survived.
Probably would have been more exciting to read but it's probably a good thing J.K. Rowling's wasn't a contributor to the bible.
Knight
Well-known Member
I think this topic went in a different direction than the op intended. Do we trust in God was the question.
Trust to do what? Display the kind of anger that killed all but Noah & his family? Or show up & perform some miracles to the betterment on mankind?
What exactly is the trust for?
Trust to do what? Display the kind of anger that killed all but Noah & his family? Or show up & perform some miracles to the betterment on mankind?
What exactly is the trust for?
Warrigal
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You have just referenced the foundation myths of the Hebrews. They are not meant to be taken literally any more than Homer's epics are. However, it turns out that there actually was a city of Troy. While some Christians read the bible as literally the "inerrant, infallible Word of God" (note the capitalisation) most do not. Modern theologians would suggest that historical and cultural context are important to understanding each separate book of both the old and new collections.
Can you appreciate the difference between these two sentences -
1. Every word written in the Bible is absolutely true
2. Within each book of the bible is an important truth, waiting for the reader to discover it.
One of the shorter books of the OT is Hosea. Hosea had an unfaithful wife but although she caused him much pain he continued to love her. The book is also a reflection on the continual betrayal of God by the people who called themselves the Chosen of God. I've forgotten now how it ends but try reading it and see what you get out of it.
Don't worry about being converted. This book is directed at pre-Christian Hebrew people. Before reading, see if you can find out what was happening in their world at that time. When you do that, you will better understand what Hosea was on about. The story is timeless enough to speak to modern day Christians who are no less faithless than the Hebrews of Hosea's time. It can also speak to some people having painful marriage problems. It is ultimately a book about forgiveness, even when the transgressor does not deserve to be forgiven. God comes into it too, as you would expect if it is included in the Bible.
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grahamg
Old codger
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The thread has come a long way whilst folks have been making their own minds up as to the meaning of the thread title.
I'll take the thread to be based upon a very simple question as to whether anyone has any "faith in God", and my guess would be that's close enough to the intentions of the OP.
Obviously the thread has meandered, hence no harm in your asking the questions you do, and if it doesn't take the thread off topic too far, can I ask the question: "Do any forum members believe our Christian God, is a jealous God, and so someone might at times in their lives better be fearful, lest we stray too far"?
Knight
Well-known Member
Are you asking do people have faith based on fear? If truly a faithful believer then this is your answer
I am Yahweh your God, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourselves an idol, nor any image of anything that is in the heavens above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: you shall not bow yourself down to them, nor serve them, for I, Yahweh your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and on the fourth generation of those who hate me, and showing loving kindness to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.
Exodus 20:2-6
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I am grateful for trial by peers. It is not exactly as the bible explains but is an important part of our way of life. But I don't think we should be stoning people as the Bible says we should do.
I think the rule of forgiving debt in 7 years is nice.
I don't think we should own slaves even though God's chosen people had God's permission to own slaves and their children could inherit them. God didn't like his people being slaves but it was acceptable to sell a daughter into slavery if it was really necessary.
It could nice to return to sacrificing animals.
I do not and I am in dismay that this subject is acceptable but not politics. While I want to see an end to Christianity as it stands now with people interpreting the Bible literally, I also have an awful feeling when bad things are said about the religion when the discussion includes Christians. I am concerned about it how it feels to be Christian when the religion is being attacked.
On the other hand, I feel awful when Christians believe I do not know God and morals because I am not Christian.
MarciKS
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grahamg
Old codger
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No, I don't think I'm asking another question than the one I posted about whether forum members believe what I'm sure I've been told in church many years ago, that the Christian God "is a jealous God"?
However, as you've kindly provided the biblical extract, the significance of the words were as stated, when it was written was in relation to trying to persuade "the flock" not to worship "graven images" etc.!).
Warrigal
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Don't be too concerned Vida May.
No-one is abusing anyone in this thread. There are differences of opinion, to be sure, and some posters have no understanding of the thought processes and beliefs of some other posters but on the whole things have remained quite calm. 260+ posts indicates quite a lot of interest.
The thread will be closed if anyone becomes abusive.
No-one is abusing anyone in this thread. There are differences of opinion, to be sure, and some posters have no understanding of the thought processes and beliefs of some other posters but on the whole things have remained quite calm. 260+ posts indicates quite a lot of interest.
The thread will be closed if anyone becomes abusive.
It is not a concern that someone here will be abusive, but that a Christian could start questioning his/her belief and that could be harmful.
Warrigal
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We are challenged all the time Vida May. That is how we grow. This is true for everyone, not just Christians.
grahamg
Old codger
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- South of Manchester, UK
If questioning ourselves is harmful, (and I agree to question yourself too much can be destructive, blaming yourself for everything for example), I'd suggest this aspect could be outweighed by those it might assist as another forum member has suggested, and I certainly did not read your posts as being harmful at all.
Bear in mind too, that there is this man Richard Dawkins who appears to have made it his life's goal to try to undermine all religions, (what makes him think he has to so help us all out of our "delusions", as he would characterise it, you have to wonder?), so you've a way to go yet before you reach "his great heights"!
Yes, he is definitely a jealous, vengeful God. 'Thou shalt have no other God but me', sums up his attitude nicely. It also suggests that perhaps there were other contenders for the position of supreme ruler. His command was aimed at the Israelites, whose sojourn in the wilderness was long enough for the original people to have died of old age and a new generation to have been born.
Warrigal
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At the time that was written there was a contest in that part of the world between pantheism and monotheism. The Hebrews were monotheistic but some didn't mind having an each way bet. Much of the OT is devoted to calling them back to monotheism.
The golden calf which the Israelites moulded was probably a representation of Isis, the Egyptian goddess. The God of the Old Testament is traditionally seen as male, so there may have been rivalry between the two.
There has also been a suggestion that the Hebrews were followers of Akhenaton, who believed in one God, and were forced to flee Egypt when he was deposed.
Aneeda72
Well-known Member
Politics on any forum can get very nasty and personal which, I suspect, is why the subject is not allowed, although I wish it was. But peace in the forum is best. While I believe there is only ONE God, many do not. Many confuse Jesus Christ with God the father and do not realize that there is a clear difference.
I would not worry about what us Christians believe or don’t believe. Every single person’s belief in God or non belief in God, or belief in a different God is different and unique. Yes, there are many crazies out there and we all have to worry about them, Christian or not, because they are crazy and fanatics. But crazy and fanatic is against forum rules, I think.
You are correct many interpret the Bible literally and I fail to understand why, but there is a lot I fail to understand. I accept other people’s belief. The Christian religions, there are many, have and not been attacked on this thread, they have been discussed, which was not the purpose of the thread. But, oh well, we often go off thread topic.
Aneeda72
Well-known Member
It depends on your definition of abusive. Sometimes on threads there can be a bit of rudeness, names might be called, education levels might be questioned, your spelling and grammar might be challenged by the spelling and grammar police, what you write might be misinterpreted, and other stuff can happen.
I am a Christian, Catholic, and I question my belief all the time, especially in stressful times but it does not harm me, or anyone, and I am strongly in my belief for the questioning of it. The old “seek and you shall find” answers. But not gold, you never find gold, or money, or untold riches.
. You do find answers, and the answer is often NO! You are welcome to discuss whatever here, why not?, everyone else is
rgp
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Aneeda72
Well-known Member
I thought it was “before me”, not “but me“ which would indicates a power grab. Kind of like Zeus head God the the Romans, I think. It’s hard to remember they had so many.
Obviously, that person has doubts and what is wrong with questioning authority? If the authority in question is honest, no harm, no foul.
So what if a Christian, or anyone questions. The only way to keep people in belief is never to question?
Yes, Aneeda, I agree, that "but me" puts a whole different slant on things. And I think it is an error. I googled the Ten Commandments and found the "but me" translation also. Then I looked it up in my Bible (yes, I have one) and it said "Before me." That is the translation I have always seen.
"But me" means you are allowed to believe in one God, period.
"Before me" means that other Gods exist, but this one is the head God, in other words, he has declared himself the boss. The other gods are minor characters, and you don't have to pay much attention to them.
There also seems to be confusion as to which Commandment it is. It turned up as the first, second, and third commandment, depending on which web site you went to! No one seems to know exactly where it is, much less what it means. I think the author of these commandments could have used a good editor!
"But me" means you are allowed to believe in one God, period.
"Before me" means that other Gods exist, but this one is the head God, in other words, he has declared himself the boss. The other gods are minor characters, and you don't have to pay much attention to them.
There also seems to be confusion as to which Commandment it is. It turned up as the first, second, and third commandment, depending on which web site you went to! No one seems to know exactly where it is, much less what it means. I think the author of these commandments could have used a good editor!