What went wrong?

Aunt Marg said:
Pure sissification.

Personally (please read... personally, as in my opinion), all of the women's-lib/feminist movement/equality, that's being spun and woven today has done our world and society no favours.

Men should have been left alone to be men, and women should of got off their lazy a$$es and pulled the load on their end, without complaining and always needing their hands held.
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I'm one of the lucky ones. No matter what we do, we do it together. My wife would never think to have me get someone else to help me when she is perfectly able to. :love:
 

@Aunt Marg:
"Personally (please read... personally, as in my opinion), all of the women's-lib/feminist movement/equality, that's being spun and woven today has done our world and society no favours.

Men should have been left alone to be men, and women should of got off their lazy a$$es and pulled the load on their end, without complaining and always needing their hands held."

Reactions:squatting dog, Packerjohn and hawkdon

I thought it was funny how happy your post made these three men feel.
 

Ruby Rose said:
Your very first paragraph...'back in the day etc...is where I beg to differ as not all marriages are like that. Take my late husband for instance, seeing that I was qualified in a certain field, his wish was that I continue work in and out of the house and simply arrange for a sitter. I dug my heels in, I am afraid, and stated that children needed their mother at home during their developmental stages and seeing it was not necessary for me to return to work...I said NO. As for household duties to include cleaning, cooking, etc etc, he did not believe that he should 'share the load' so to speak and I never asked him too.
Well, I had better stop writing on this topic as it has always riled me up.
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I would have supported your choice and decision to stay home and see to it that your children were raised properly and with love, 100%. I was the same. Too bad society has gotten away from that.

As for my sheer repugnance over families that have children only to look to some daycare and/or stranger to raise them, I best not even get started on that, because none of what I have to say related to is nice.

Been married for the better part of 40 years now, and not once did I ever expect hubby to arrive home from work and start washing dishes, preparing meals, washing floors, doing laundry, or changing diapers, that was my job.

Hubby had his job, I had mine.
 
A "real man" is not somebody trying to look cool by wearing a leather jacket and having a cigarette hanging out of his mouth (do women REALLY want to kiss an ashtray????). Instead, a "real man" is one who steps up to his responsibilities, walks the talk, and gets the job done. People can depend on him to do the right thing. He supports his wife in the things she wants to accomplish in her life, provides security to their home, and is dedicated to his home life instead of whining about how things should be (e.g. the so-called "rebel"), and does no have one eye out looking for that "piece on the side". His wife can depend on him being there 5, 10, and many more years from now. A real man doesn't bolt the minute there is a problem such as the wife having health issues. He can be depended on.

A home that includes a "real man" shouldn't need women's lib because the wife is an equal partner and shouldn't need permission or having to throw a hissy fit to be free to do what she needs to find accomplishment and purpose.

It seems to me that Hollywood got it all wrong and those who buy into that image of the "tough guy rebel" being the real man ought to rethink their value systems.

Tony
 
Gaer said:
"Boy the way Glenn Miller played
songs that made the Hit Parade
guys like me we had it made
Those were the days.
Everybody pulled his weight
Gee our old La Salle ran great
Those were the days.
And you knew who you were then
GIRLS WERE GIRLS AND MEN WERE MEN
Mister, we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again.
People seemed to be content
fifty dollars paid the rent
F--s were in the circus tent
Those were the days
Take a little Sunday spin
Go to watch the Dodgers win
Have yourself a dandy day that cost you under a fin
Hair was short and skirts were long
Kate Smith really sold a song
I don't know just what went wrong
Those were the days."
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That's one of the things I loved about "All in the Family" I can sing every word in that song, even though I wasn't around when Herbert Hoover was President!
 
Shalimar said:
Hmmm. I am a great believer in choice. Being a stay at home mother is as valuable career/vocation as any other. But it should be a choice, and as a feminist person who believes in equal rights for all, I take exception to being castigated and de-feminized because I
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Shalimar said:
chose to work, and expected my partner and father of my son, to share the chores etc. I am an exceptionally feminine woman, by my own definition, which is the one that matters to me, equally comfortable in dresses and heels or jeans and sandals. If I chose to smoke a cigar, I would do so. Lol. Independence is not only a masculine trait, nor are household duties necessarily gender based. I don‘t want
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Shalimar said:
Gary Cooper as a romantic partner, emotionally unavailable men do not interest me. To me, a real man is an equal partner in all ways, masculinity is fluid, not a stereotype, and I have no wish to emulate June Cleaver.❤️
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tbeltrans said:
A "real man" is not somebody trying to look cool by wearing a leather jacket and having a cigarette hanging out of his mouth (do women REALLY want to kiss an ashtray????). Instead, a "real man" is one who steps up to his responsibilities, walks the talk, and gets the job done. People can depend on him to do the right thing. He supports his wife in the things she wants to accomplish in her life, provides security to their home, and is dedicated to his home life instead of whining about how things should be (e.g. the so-called "rebel"), and does no have one eye out looking for that "piece on the side". His wife can depend on him being there 5, 10, and many more years from now. A real man doesn't bolt the minute there is a problem such as the wife having health issues. He can be depended on.

A home that includes a "real man" shouldn't need women's lib because the wife is an equal partner and shouldn't need permission or having to throw a hissy fit to be free to do what she needs to find accomplishment and purpose.

It seems to me that Hollywood got it all wrong and those who buy into that image of the "tough guy rebel" being the real man ought to rethink their value systems.

Tony
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QFT
 
The part about women wanting to go around topless reminded me of a news story from the early '70's. One of those human interest pieces they would end the local news with.

In southern California ( maybe L.A.?) there was a bank robbery, the perp was a young woman wearing a see through blouse, but no mask.
According to police, no one in the bank could give a description of her face.
 
tbeltrans said:
A "real man" is not somebody trying to look cool by wearing a leather jacket and having a cigarette hanging out of his mouth (do women REALLY want to kiss an ashtray????). Instead, a "real man" is one who steps up to his responsibilities, walks the talk, and gets the job done. People can depend on him to do the right thing. He supports his wife in the things she wants to accomplish in her life, provides security to their home, and is dedicated to his home life instead of whining about how things should be (e.g. the so-called "rebel"), and does no have one eye out looking for that "piece on the side". His wife can depend on him being there 5, 10, and many more years from now. A real man doesn't bolt the minute there is a problem such as the wife having health issues. He can be depended on.

A home that includes a "real man" shouldn't need women's lib because the wife is an equal partner and shouldn't need permission or having to throw a hissy fit to be free to do what she needs to find accomplishment and purpose.

It seems to me that Hollywood got it all wrong and those who buy into that image of the "tough guy rebel" being the real man ought to rethink their value systems.

Tony
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Well said, Tony, and the same applies to a real woman.

A real woman doesn't spend her days gallivanting around town dressed and acting like a tramp with all hanging out for the world to see while her husband is at work, nor does a real woman park her lazy butt down on the couch first thing in the morning as soon as her eyes open, sitting watching Soaps and tapping the keys on her cellphone hour after hour, day by day, and a real woman takes pride in her appearance.

A real woman doesn't leave the house in shambles, dressed in sloppy looking sweat pants with her hair looking like a birds-nest, pushing a two year old baby in a stroller who still has raspberry jam from breakfast stuck to the front of his or her shirt and food stains around their mouth.

A real woman who embarks upon a marriage or a relationship, displays maturity, responsibility, and a sense of commitment, and she applies herself accordingly, stepping up to the plate to tackle all that relates to her order of business in the relationship, so if she's a stay-at-home housewife, she sees to it that all that needs doing on the home-front is done (and without belly-aching about it), and she's there for her husband through thick-and-thin, and when times get tough, she stands by her man (hello Dolly Parton).

A real woman is a master of her domain, meaning all that applies to being a homemaker, she has under control.

Hollywood definitely got the real woman wrong, in portraying a real woman as something of the Kardashians, where jet-setting around the world dressed in Gucci, is the norm, and where spending money is all in a day's work, and where no responsibility is tied to their lifestyle.
 
My dad was a manly man. He didn't put up with any crap and he carried his own load. He had the best work ethic that I ever knew of any other man to have. Honest as the day is long, sincere and hard working. Dad was a blue collar worker and proud to be a member of the Steelworker's union. My best friend.
 
I am reminded of the challenges I faced when I first became a practicing psychologist. A decade of university, accompanied by a PhD, meant little when confronted with the standard prejudices of the day. I can’t recall how often I was told my career was “unsuitable for a woman.” Apparently, I lacked the strength and resilience, “manly qualities”

necessary to function in such an Uber stressful career. Of course, no vet would respect me, or want to share vulnerabilities with a woman. I was also too small, too pretty, too fragile, my figure was distracting, blah blah blah.

Some comments I refuse to post. Some of these comments came from women, but the more virulent ones came from the male professors and psychologists I encountered during those early years. Had I been less feminine, more in

line with their pseudo masculine bs about women in the sciences, their anger and unease would have been lessened. In their minds I would also leave my career and find a good husband to take care of me, once my frilly little self

shattered under the pressure of trying to make it in a man’s world. They were incapable of understanding the benefits of soft power, the holistic value of a feminine and nurturing approach to supporting those damaged by PTSD etc. It

was because I was soft, feminine, non threatening, non judgemental, that my clients were comfortable with me. They soon learned, however, there was steel beneath my softness, and not to push my limits. I was the only female

therapist I knew at that time. Even now, the women who do what I do are few and far between. I am grateful for the gradual change in people’s attitudes, and I pray for the day when capability not gender becomes the benchmark. Now some of the greatest champions of female therapists are men. I count my vets among that number. In closing,

one of the male therapists I respect most, and a veteran of multiple deployments, uses many of the same techniques in helping traumatised vets that I do. I have seen him consoling an enormous weeping man, holding him in his arms, and rocking him back and forth. Now that is a masculine man in all his glory.
 
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Through pure happenstance I found my way to the apparel industry, which was then dominated by Jewish people.

Such a lucky break for me, because their tradition is to respect bright, capable women in business, work with them, pay them well and promote them, and to presume that they can balance their home and business lives. Which I could and did.

My husband changed plenty of diapers and he never minded a bit. After all, they were his children, too.

The motto in our house was if you smell it, you own it!
 
I have noticed in our Media here in Australia women seem to be wanting to become more masculine
While men are told to 'get in touch with their feminine side'
With people wanting role reversals it has become apparent no-one knows who they are any more
Maybe a little to do with Gender Diversification but that is my opinion ONLY
As Robin Williams said in "Good Morning Vietnam"
'You're going to go straight to Hell for that one'
 
Aunt Marg said:
Pure sissification.

Back in the day, I never once heard of a single story related to a working man complaining about his wife being a stay-at-home mom/fulltime homemaker. Men were thrilled and quite satisfied with the arrangement.

Fast-forward a few decades, somewhere along the way, wives/mothers/homemakers took on a whine and b*tc# about their husbands not doing enough. Seemed it was no longer good enough for the man to bring home the bacon and the wife to fry it up in a pan, thus change was born, literally.

Women wanted their husbands to "pull the load"... so many hours spent in the kitchen, so many hours a week taking care of the kids, so many hours a week cleaning the house.

Something had to give, and this is the give that we're witnessing and seeing today.

Personally (please read... personally, as in my opinion), all of the women's-lib/feminist movement/equality, that's being spun and woven today has done our world and society no favours.

Men should have been left alone to be men, and women should of got off their lazy a$$es and pulled the load on their end, without complaining and always needing their hands held.
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I, and more than a few friends, experienced just the opposite back in the day (in our case growing up in the 50s and 60s): fathers who moaned about the fact that their wives wouldn't "get off her lazy a$$" & bring home a paycheck, or if she was working outside the home, why doesn't she earn more $$ to make it easier "to keep up with the Joneses" [remember that phrase?]. And in that case the dads expected the moms to still do all the housework and (as much as possible, i.e. not much) be a supermom raising those kids.

A "fond" memory: when I was about 8 or 9, I did happen to have 1 or 2 friends whose mothers didn't work outside the home and at 1 of my dad's & stepmother #2's cocktail parties, I was trotted out to say hello and 1 of my dad's male coworkers asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. Having recently heard this reply at 1 of the friends with the stay-at-home mom's house, I said "A housewife." (Or maybe I said "homemaker", can't remember which.) Anyhoo, I can see over the guy's shoulder my dad glaring daggers at me, the guy who asked me frowned & said, "Oh, c'mon now! Don't you want to be something better than that?!" And then, of course, after everybody went home I got a real dressing-down from dad ("Don't you ever, ever embarrass me like that again! What the hell's wrong with you?!")

So, you know, hard for me to get on board about how much better men were back then. The older I get, the more I agree with Carl Sandburg, "I tell you the past is a bucket of ashes."
 
Ruby Rose said:
You are one lucky woman!
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I don't construe it as luck.

It was the exact same in my childhood home, and I remember it being the same in the homes of immediate and extended family, granted, I come from a European background, so possibly that played a big part in the difference in my childhood home and the homes of family, as compared to many homes today.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with a man pitching-in when an extra set of hands is needed, that's what marriage is, the union of two, and the same goes for a woman pitching in to help her SO (significant other) out, however, a number of years ago I started seeing an imbalance taking hold, where some fulltime homemakers were doing little, and where the men in those homes were not only pulling their weight from day-to-day holding down fulltime jobs, they would then have to come home and pull double-duty, and that's just wrong and it's unacceptable.
 
officerripley said:
I, and more than a few friends, experienced just the opposite back in the day (in our case growing up in the 50s and 60s): fathers who moaned about the fact that their wives wouldn't "get off her lazy a$$" & bring home a paycheck, or if she was working outside the home, why doesn't she earn more $$ to make it easier "to keep up with the Joneses" [remember that phrase?]. And in that case the dads expected the moms to still do all the housework and (as much as possible, i.e. not much) be a supermom raising those kids.

A "fond" memory: when I was about 8 or 9, I did happen to have 1 or 2 friends whose mothers didn't work outside the home and at 1 of my dad's & stepmother #2's cocktail parties, I was trotted out to say hello and 1 of my dad's male coworkers asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. Having recently heard this reply at 1 of the friends with the stay-at-home mom's house, I said "A housewife." (Or maybe I said "homemaker", can't remember which.) Anyhoo, I can see over the guy's shoulder my dad glaring daggers at me, the guy who asked me frowned & said, "Oh, c'mon now! Don't you want to be something better than that?!" And then, of course, after everybody went home I got a real dressing-down from dad ("Don't you ever, ever embarrass me like that again! What the hell's wrong with you?!")

So, you know, hard for me to get on board about how much better men were back then. The older I get, the more I agree with Carl Sandburg, "I tell you the past is a bucket of ashes."
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I remember the phrase well, though it didn't apply in my childhood home, as mom and dad had a hard enough time just keeping up, never mind keeping up with anyone else.

I never would have guessed that such abhorrence existed in relation to homemakers.
 
Aunt Marg said:
I remember the phrase well, though it didn't apply in my childhood home, as mom and dad had a hard enough time just keeping up, never mind keeping up with anyone else.

I never would have guessed that such abhorrence existed in relation to homemakers.
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Sadly, I believe that such abhorrence truly existed in relation to women. Nothing they could have done would ever have been sufficient to men of that ilk, who viewed women as possessions not people.
 

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